Von Willebrand's Disease

[Dobs4ever]

There is not such thing as Doberman Type III Vwd. Doberman have Type I Vwd and Vwd is not the missing factor it is just the name of the disease which was named for the man who discovered it. Yes there are breeds other thank Dobermans and some of them have a more severe type but that has nothing to do with the Doberman Vwd Type I. So unless there has been a new discovery or mutation type II and III do not apply.

A Dog can be clear, carrier, or affected. I have had Vwd affected and had surgery and have never had a bunch of blood work test done prior to surgery. I have never lost a dog during surgery for anything related to Vwd.

The shot given to help clotting is a vitamin K shot not Vwd factor as there is not shuch thing.

I have said it before and I will say it again science has been proven wrong many times and when a trained professional claims a blood test will give Vwd status they are wrong unless they are sending it to Vet Gen for a DNA analysis. The vet can't do the DNA tes. The vets blood test will only tell you the clotting factor. Science deals with textbooks, theories and ways to get more money for more grants to further their studies. I have nothing wrong with that - They have to search til they find the right answer. In the mean time they need to be honest with folks about what they are doing.

I am sure most vets by now know that there is a DNA test for Vwd yet this person was not given that info by your professional. Those in the breed must know this stuff as we deal with it on a daily basis. When the Vwd test was developed in the early 90' they did a scare campaign that still lingers today as most of the time the question we are asked about are dogs is the Vwd status.

If someone misleads or misinforms me on one thing I become suspect on all. I work very closely with my vet just so you know and he has called me before to verify things on Vwd when someone was telling him some outlandish stuff. There is book and lab learning and there is in the field down in the trenches learning. Both have their place and when I need surgery I am at my vets having it taken care of by the one I trust.

 

[Tasha & Boris' Mom]

I am not going to argue with you D4 on facts that easily researched but I will stand my ground that unless you are a credentialed and/or licensed professional in animal healthcare then you are misusing your status as a breeder and misrepresenting your qualifications as a professional to imply your ability to medically diagnose or direct those people you influence to disregard licensed professional diagnosis and/or instructions.

In my field that is called medical malpractice and is punishable as a crime by fines and/or prison time. I suppose that is the safety of labeling yourself something that requires no standard of ethic to obtain.

 

[Dobs4ever]

I did not diagnois anything- I gave info regarding the info that had been given which was misleading to this person. I cleared up the misinformation on the elisa test and Vwd and gave my experience with vets handing out wrong info and my feelings on it.

I don't know if any dog has vwd unless they do the DNA test and neither does any vet know without the DNA test. If you got to vet gen web site you will see that the Doberman has Type 1 Vwd the least severe of the 3 types of Vwd that we know about.

 

[Ataro]

Just wanted to add for people doing the vWD test from outside of the US/Canada: the test can also be carried out via a blood sample. This is not the same as an ELISA test, with the blood sample they test the DNA. I just had blood from Ashra sent off to be analyzed by Vetgen from Germany via Laboklin (they don't have the option to do this in Mexico, only test for coagulants).

 

[Jacquie.t]

I am also sure he has pre-op things he does anyways to make sure everything is a go, so quit worrying it just turns your hair gre

Thanks for that clarification! God bless you for standing by your girl!

You are right about the grey hair! I finally just picked up the phone and called my vet. He answered all my questions and concerns and took the time to talk to me more in detail as to WHY the blood test and that he does a prick test just before the spay as well but let me know that he has many Dobe's (and he does give extra attention to the breed) and has done many spays on Dobe's and the blood test has always done fine by them and have never had any complications. I feel confident that she is in good hands. Thanks so much for everyones thoughts and opinions!

 

[MicheleM]

I think that is a bit of a harsh assumption about me as to what I have or have not done. I spent years on-line and and in book stores researching this breed, and a few others, to find the perfect "forever" pup for our family before I got Angel. I read about other issues but please excuse me if this seems to be one that I missed. I have not dismissed any advice and opinions given in this thread - quite the opposite. If I did not value the opinions and advice of the people in this community, I wouldn't have joined, let alone, posted the question.

My post was not to be harsh just an observation on my part. You can test a two month old puppy for VW. Actually you can test VW at any age.
My question to you is why you stay away from breeders? There are actually a lot of positive reasons to get a puppy from a breeder and one of them would be knowing about all the health testing and temperament issues in your puppy's lineage and of course the knowledge and life time support.
I congratulate you on rescuing your little girl, and I'm sure you will learn a lot on this forum

 

[MicheleM]

There is not such thing as Doberman Type III Vwd. Doberman have Type I Vwd and Vwd is not the missing factor it is just the name of the disease which was named for the man who discovered it. Yes there are breeds other thank Dobermans and some of them have a more severe type but that has nothing to do with the Doberman Vwd Type I. So unless there has been a new discovery or mutation type II and III do not apply.
Can I like you response more than once!!!
A Dog can be clear, carrier, or affected. I have had Vwd affected and had surgery and have never had a bunch of blood work test done prior to surgery. I have never lost a dog during surgery for anything related to Vwd.

The shot given to help clotting is a vitamin K shot not Vwd factor as there is not shuch thing.

I have said it before and I will say it again science has been proven wrong many times and when a trained professional claims a blood test will give Vwd status they are wrong unless they are sending it to Vet Gen for a DNA analysis. The vet can't do the DNA tes. The vets blood test will only tell you the clotting factor. Science deals with textbooks, theories and ways to get more money for more grants to further their studies. I have nothing wrong with that - They have to search til they find the right answer. In the mean time they need to be honest with folks about what they are doing.

I am sure most vets by now know that there is a DNA test for Vwd yet this person was not given that info by your professional. Those in the breed must know this stuff as we deal with it on a daily basis. When the Vwd test was developed in the early 90' they did a scare campaign that still lingers today as most of the time the question we are asked about are dogs is the Vwd status.

If someone misleads or misinforms me on one thing I become suspect on all. I work very closely with my vet just so you know and he has called me before to verify things on Vwd when someone was telling him some outlandish stuff. There is book and lab learning and there is in the field down in the trenches learning. Both have their place and when I need surgery I am at my vets having it taken care of by the one I trust.

 

[MicheleM]

Yes to what dobes4ever has said in the above thread! I wish I could press like more than one time!

 

[MicheleM]

There is so much mass Hysteria over VW in Dobermans and there really doesn't need to be. There are so many vets that don't know about VW and panic when a Doberman comes walking in the door! Tasha's mom I know about your experience and about your background and your great vet that knows everything about Dobermans but I would much rather converse with Doberman breeders than veterinarians any day! I have great vets but they don't specialize in this breed.
I think people need to keep an open mind and learn through the experience of others. And as far as dobes4ever giving advice and you saying she could be sued for liable! Are you kidding me? That's what this forum is all about giving advice when asked and learning from people with experience in this breed.

 

[Tasha & Boris' Mom]

Michele I have said my peace. I have no desire to argue with you. I believe there is great friendship and value in a forum among people with similar interest but discouraging a healthcare relationship combined with communication with your local vet is not advice its reckless and could endanger the safety of the animal. I realize that some of the people here have been here a long time and they are probably good people but when I don't agree. I don't agree.

As for the Vwd, who knows, I can only go by the research that I have done and the professionals in my life. It is neither here nor there as long as at the end of the day I have provided the best care for my dog that I can. Medical care is not a theory or an opinion it is a responsibility.

 

[Jacquie.t]

MicheleM,
I prefer not to get into my own personal reasons as to why I don't use breeders. Its just my choice and that is all I need to say.
Just because this is my first Dobe,, does not mean i'm new to the animal world. I grew up on a cattle ranch, raised and trained two horse, not to mention the countless chickens, ducks, rabbits, goats, dogs and cats. There are many things I know about this breed but unfortunately this issue slipped through the cracks.

At this point, as a newbie to this forum, i'm sorry I ever posted the question as I feel this thread has gone a bit hostile from both perspectives.

I have considered what everyone has posted and been open to all suggestions and weighed my options. At the end of the day, she is my baby, and the choice is my decision.

My vet put me at ease and was very clear that this was not a major issue for me to worry so much about but it his duty to inform and make sure us mommas are informed.

I respect everyone opinions and given the fact that I am only learning about VW today, I have no grounds to argue either side, nor would I.

All dogs, no matter the breed, could have issues but at the end of the day, I would cut of my right arm for my pets just the same as I would for my kids. ... My husband may be another story... Lol (I kid! Just trying to lighten the mood)

 

[Tasha & Boris' Mom]

MicheleM,
I prefer not to get into my own personal reasons as to why I don't use breeders. Its just my choice and that is all I need to say.
Just because this is my first Dobe,, does not mean i'm new to the animal world. I grew up on a cattle ranch, raised and trained two horse, not to mention the countless chickens, ducks, rabbits, goats, dogs and cats. There are many things I know about this breed but unfortunately this issue slipped through the cracks.

At this point, as a newbie to this forum, i'm sorry I ever posted the question as I feel this thread has gone a bit hostile from both perspectives.

I have considered what everyone has posted and been open to all suggestions and weighed my options. At the end of the day, she is my baby, and the choice is my decision.

My vet put me at ease and was very clear that this was not a major issue for me to worry so much about but it his duty to inform and make sure us mommas are informed.

I respect everyone opinions and given the fact that I am only learning about VW today, I have no grounds to argue either side, nor would I.

All dogs, no matter the breed, could have issues but at the end of the day, I would cut of my right arm for my pets just the same as I would for my kids. ... My husband may be another story... Lol (I kid! Just trying to lighten the mood)

I agree Jacquie, and I apologize not only to you but to my pals here. It has been a very difficult and long week for my family and I am a little sensitive but I want to assure you this is a very kind and loving forum with many many good people, even d4e . Don't be mad at me Suz, give me a hug , I don't really want to put you in jail. Night all.........

 

[MicheleM]

Michele I have said my peace. I have no desire to argue with you. I believe there is great friendship and value in a forum among people with similar interest but discouraging a healthcare relationship combined with communication with your local vet is not advice its reckless and could endanger the safety of the animal. I realize that some of the people here have been here a long time and they are probably good people but when I don't agree.

As for the Vwd, who knows, I can only go by the research that I have done and the professionals in my life. It is neither here nor there as long as at the end of the day I have provided the best care for my dog that I can. Medical care is not a theory or an opinion it is a responsibility.

I don't want to argue, I think everybody has a right to voice their opinion and not think somebody is wrong on what they believe in. Keeping an open mind and learning from breeders with knowledge through blood sweat and tears, you might gain some knowledge I would never doubt my vets on the care of my dogs and have the highest respect for them.

 

[MicheleM]

MicheleM,
I prefer not to get into my own personal reasons as to why I don't use breeders. Its just my choice and that is all I need to say.
Just because this is my first Dobe,, does not mean i'm new to the animal world. I grew up on a cattle ranch, raised and trained two horse, not to mention the countless chickens, ducks, rabbits, goats, dogs and cats. There are many things I know about this breed but unfortunately this issue slipped through the cracks.

At this point, as a newbie to this forum, i'm sorry I ever posted the question as I feel this thread has gone a bit hostile from both perspectives.

I have considered what everyone has posted and been open to all suggestions and weighed my options. At the end of the day, she is my baby, and the choice is my decision.

My vet put me at ease and was very clear that this was not a major issue for me to worry so much about but it his duty to inform and make sure us mommas are informed.

I respect everyone opinions and given the fact that I am only learning about VW today, I have no grounds to argue either side, nor would I.

All dogs, no matter the breed, could have issues but at the end of the day, I would cut of my right arm for my pets just the same as I would for my kids. ... My husband may be another story... Lol (I kid! Just trying to lighten the mood)

I think I came across the wrong way and I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way. I just asked a simple question. I have rescued Dobermans in my life time and applaude you for finding your girl and making her a part of your life. You had just commented in your post that you stay away from breeders and was curious why. If you don't want to elaborate that's okay. Again congrats on your new puppy and welcome to the forum! I'm going to start putting happy faces on my posts!

 

[Marinegeekswife]

Girls! Girls! You're all pretty! Play nice ladies.

 

[Asteria]

WEll bless you for rescuing that baby and it is good to see he is geting excellent care. I still consider it a push for money when the elisa test doe snot give Vwd status. The two are not linked other than they both give indications if there could be a possible bleeding problem. There are other thngs that can cause clotting factors that have nothing to do with VWD.

If you got to DPCA.or they always have a clinic going on and you can save $50.00 on the test. It is normally 149.00 and with the clinic price you can have it done for 99.00 There is also a company called Vetnostics lab that does the DNA test for 65.00.

I used them for my DNA test and I have to give them a rave review. I was very impressed with their customer service. Thay called me personally to give me the results (within the week I sent the swabs back - very quick) and I also received the certificate and lab work up sheet in the mail also shortly after our conversation. VERY nice people and VERY quick results.

They send out the swabs and a pre-paid return bubble envelope to you. They only charge you $25 at first and then when you return the swabs they charge the balance to run the test. If you for some reason never return it, you never get charged the balance.

 

[Asteria]

Sorry I did not clarify the place I was giving the rave review was Vetnostic.

 

[Dobs4ever]

I really appreciate when people understand that we are all sharing info from different perspectives. My families will tell you that they call me a lot with quesitons and I always stand ready to help. I will also be the first to tell them to go to the vet if it is needed. I don't ever try to diagnois anything but do give them things to try as too often they have gone to vets and been charged an exhorbinant amount for test for something that was pretty simple.

My concern was to put the person at ease about Vwd as she seemed really concerned due to the misunderstanding on what she was hearing from the vet. You can go to the DPCA.org web site and read about Vwd for yourself and gain a good perspective from epople who know Dobermans specifically. If you want to know a dogs Vwd status then you have to do a DNA test unless they are clear by parantage.

We are all here to help anyone and everyone and share out experiences so people do not get mislead. People here can tell you that I am a sticker for not misleading folks. It just does not sit well with me.

Regardless of the fact that Vwd is not a big issue since we have a DNA test years ago I went to almost all clear dogs and have since finding out about it back in the 90's bred only non affected. But I can't make someone wrong if they choose too because in the beginning before the test I know at least half my puppies had to be affected and never a problem - I have always cropped and docked and I also deal with families all over the country so have had lots of experience with vets misleading folks on this issue.

Certainly if a I had puppy that had been through what Tasha's Mom has been through I would want every test possible run before any surgery. I also understand the CYA precaution - it is why you sign a release from guilt prior to surgery in most cases. Since I attend every surgery, crop and dock etc I dont have to sign one because I know the risk involved and if a dog is healthy the risk is minimal.

It is like our dogs everything has to be balanced. And lets face it way too many in the medical profession today are big pill pushers and test runners - watch TV and tell me how many DRUGS we see pushed and how many illiness they try to convince you you have.

 

[Asteria]

And lets face it way too many in the medical profession today are big pill pushers and test runners - watch TV and tell me how many DRUGS we see pushed and how many illiness they try to convince you you have.

Well on an off note I am in the medical profession and I can say the NONE of us doctors or nurses, (at least in my area) sit well with the pharmacy companies advertising their medications on tv. That leads to patients coming in and asking for specific drugs because they have self diagnosed themselves thanks to a tv add. Its can be very difficult to deal with those people because they are set on what the tv said.

As far as pill pushers that varies in what generation they attended medical school. You will find that newer physcians do not try to push pills as the older generation had in which has resulted in super bugs (in respect to antibiotics).

And from a hopsital point of view the hospital is assigned a DRG and is actually limited to what they can do. Certian things have to be done in order to rule out the many diagnosis that can be similar S/S wise. Im sure we have all heard of those people who were misdiagnosed...that is unfortunatley what happens in those patients who did not have a physician who did enough testing, digging deep, and making those connections.

Unfortunatly thats the way medicine works when it comes to diagnosis. It is not cut and dry and I can speak first hand that no patient is EVER textbook.

So please don't be so quick to throw out a comment like that unless you work in the field and can speak from experience (Not ment in a bashing way I just take offense to things like that because I feel we healthcare professionals in todays graduating classes are misunderstood from older generation)

 

[Dobs4ever]

Unfortunatly thats the way medicine works when it comes to diagnosis. It is not cut and dry and I can speak first hand that no patient is EVER textbook.

This is a very good statment and it applies to many professions - including breeding. Nothing is ever textbook
and that is why things happen. But when I see little people carrying around a grocery bag full of medicine and vets pushing annual vaccinations I believe something is wrong with the system. Heck if we want to go to Hott Toipics I can point out a lot of things I think are wrong with several systems.

But to scare people over something that is not in 95 to 98% of the cases an issue is not being completely honest. I have no probem with giving out correct info or running a blod test prior to surgery to make sure all is good to go if for no other reason than CYA in today's sue happy society.

I am interested in seeing the actual paperwork now being handed out by vets regarding this issue. I am sure it will be very enlightening.

Are there other types of Vwd absolutely but Dobermans to date don't have that kind - they only have type 1 the mildest form and I have never heard of a dog bleeding out due to Vwd for spay/neuter or other surgeries and I know a lot of Doberman breeders, owners and handlers.