Questions re cropping viewed as cruelty or not

[SmtmsAlwys]

Hi, all. I'm new here. Please forgive me as I wasn't really planning on posting as I don't yet have a Dobie, though I'm strongly considering getting one and have been learning quite a bit by just lurking. Even so, I've been left with questions that I'm just not really finding the answers to, if I may.

Growing up, my parents always had Dobermans. I have vague memories of the one we got when I was young having her ears cropped by my parents (via their vet). I remember asking questions and was told that "it looks better" and that my parents "like it better". The reason for the tail crop was that if it wasn't cropped, then she'd wind up beating us with her tail.

Fast forward some years where I heard so many things about how cruel it is to do it so I believed the claims. Now I'm seeing so many posts here where people do crop their dogs and, I can't imagine that so many people would be doing such if it were actually cruel to the dog.

*For those that have cropped their dogs ears/tail, is it strictly a looks thing, or does it serve another purpose?
*For those that didn't crop, was it because you found it cruel, or were there other reasons?
*Are there any real advantages to cropping them vs not?

I'm just currently in my research phase and trying to learn everything there is to learn before making a decision on anything. Thank you for all who answer!

 

[JanS]

Welcome from Minnesota!

Cropping and docking is the breed standard and it is in no way cruel like some of the animal activists are trying to state. The docked tail is in part so a predator can't grab them by the tail to try to take them down, not to mention I have heard of lots of cases where they get them slammed in a door or just hurt them and they can get broken.

For those that didn't crop, was it because you found it cruel, or were there other reasons?

I think the main reason a lot don't crop and dock is because it's illegal in their country or they rescued them at too old an age for you to be able to get the ears to stand.

Most reputable breeders have them cropped and docked before they are sent home since they have a reliable vet to do a nice job. Another reason they want them done is in case the buyer winds up returning the pup, it's much easier to rehome a c/d pup than it is a natural one.

 

[SmtmsAlwys]

Welcome from Minnesota!

Cropping and docking is the breed standard and it is in no way cruel like some of the animal activists are trying to state. The docked tail is in part so a predator can't grab them by the tail to try to take them down, not to mention I have heard of lots of cases where they get them slammed in a door or just hurt them and they can get broken.

I think the main reason a lot don't crop and dock is because it's illegal in their country or they rescued them at too old an age for you to be able to get the ears to stand.

Most reputable breeders have them cropped and docked before they are sent home since they have a reliable vet to do a nice job. Another reason they want them done is in case the buyer winds up returning the pup, it's much easier to rehome a c/d pup than it is a natural one.

Thanks for the warm welcome as well as answering my questions/concerns. The reasons you give make sense. There's definite concern about predators as we live out in the country and do have issues from time to time.

I wasn't aware that breeders had it done; I thought they left it up to the new owner. Is that a good way to tell if a breeder is reputable or not?

 

[JanS]

Is that a good way to tell if a breeder is reputable or not?

It doesn't tell you everything you need to know but it's definitely a good start. As you start your search for a pup feel free to ask all of the questions you might have and if you find a breeder you like, run them past us and we can help you out.
One of our members in IN has an occasional litter and she is excellent.

 

[Ladydi]

It depends on what you are wanting to do with your dog.
Dobermans with long tails can definitely clear a room.
Tough tails that act like a whip!
Tail docking and removal of dew claws should be done by the breeder.
You do not want to have to deal with with tail docking later in the dogs life to many complications can arise.
As far as the ears I have owned both…with and without cropped ears.
With cropped ears it’s important to have a reputable breeder co-ordinate that care with a professional before you take possession of the puppy.
Ear Cropping is a special art not to be preformed by just any vet.
Your breeder will have someone they regularly use for this procedure.
Just know with cropped ears you will need to learn how to post the ears…so check out videos on Dobermans Ear Posting to make sure you are ready for this process.
Ear Posting can require 6 to 8 months of your daily care.
Natural ears not so much work but sometimes those floppy ears can stand upward at bit.
Me personally I like cropped ears and willing to put in the work.
With ears cropped and standing at attention other hoo-mans will willingly walk to the other side of he road.

 

[BGpa]

Welcome!

Here is a good explanation of history of "why". There are practical functional advantages to crop and dock (and dewclaw removal).

The Real Reason Dobermans Have Their Tails Docked

I've had one C/D and a second natural ears, tail docked. I like the looks both ways.

The old idea waa If the tail is not docked very early before the nerve sheath develops, its less painful then amputation later...
creates "phantom limb pain" that can cause the dog to be unuseable (talking to USAF kennel master once on adopting a Mal that had an amputated tail and just spun chasing the pain...) if injury happens in an active adventurous life with a young owner. Read more on that and think about your functional needs, and be sure the breeder and vet are clear on what is involved as doing it right and after care is important.

It was common back in the 1800s and still valid today to crop and dock certain breeds to functional purpose. If its done properly it is considered humane.

There are practical advantages to the "scary big black dog" meme that went around on social media a couple years ago, including more accurate initial perception of the guardian aspect, by a proper crop that has been tended to until it stands full time. This is a LOT of work for you as the owner...see some of the excellent stories and videos here on how to.

As far as "cruel"- imho that is an emotional term often used to shut down debate. You can find plenty of that in various social media environments where the motive is not about the dogs...

Good job thinking for yourself and doing your homework, first. These dogs are not cheap or easy keepers, so if this is your first dog, read on here in the archives...its a gold mine.

 

[SmtmsAlwys]

It depends on what you are wanting to do with your dog.
Dobermans with long tails can definitely clear a room.
Tough tails that act like a whip!
Tail docking and removal of dew claws should be done by the breeder.
You do not want to have to deal with with tail docking later in the dogs life to many complications can arise.
As far as the ears I have owned both…with and without cropped ears.
With cropped ears it’s important to have a reputable breeder co-ordinate that care with a professional before you take possession of the puppy.
Ear Cropping is a special art not to be preformed by just any vet.
Your breeder will have someone they regularly use for this procedure.
Just know with cropped ears you will need to learn how to post the ears…so check out videos on Dobermans Ear Posting to make sure you are ready for this process.
Ear Posting can require 6 to 8 months of your daily care.
Natural ears not so much work but sometimes those floppy ears can stand upward at bit.
Me personally I like cropped ears and willing to put in the work.
With ears cropped and standing at attention other hoo-mans will willingly walk to the other side of he road.

So, I'm wanting a dog who will be a protective family dog. We do live out in the country a bit and have had issues with coyotes, raccoons, etc. My ideal dog would mostly be in the house (especially at night) but some time outside both with and without the kids. Now I'm thinking that the tail wouldn't be a great idea, though.

The posting of the ears is a little confusing to me. Is that something that's always been a thing? I only remember my dog having her ears bandaged for awhile before they were removed. I don't remember seeing my parents do anything otherwise. That would have been the early 80s.

I must confess, I'm not opposed to things that make a dog look more intimidating....

 

[BGpa]

Welcome!

Here is a good explanation of history of "why". There are practical functional advantages to crop and dock (and dewclaw removal).

The Real Reason Dobermans Have Their Tails Docked

I've had one C/D and a second natural ears, tail docked. I like the looks both ways.

The old idea waa If the tail is not docked very early before the nerve sheath develops, its less painful then amputation later...
creates "phantom limb pain" that can cause the dog to be unuseable (talking to USAF kennel master once on adopting a Mal that had an amputated tail and just spun chasing the pain...) if injury happens in an active adventurous life with a young owner. Read more on that and think about your functional needs, and be sure the breeder and vet are clear on what is involved as doing it right and after care is important.

It was common back in the 1800s and still valid today to crop and dock certain breeds to functional purpose. If its done properly it is considered humane.

There are practical advantages to the "scary big black dog" meme that went around on social media a couple years ago, including more accurate initial perception of the guardian aspect, by a proper crop that has been tended to until it stands full time. This is a LOT of work for you as the owner...see some of the excellent stories and videos here on how to.

As far as "cruel"- imho that is an emotional term often used to shut down debate. You can find plenty of that in various social media environments where the motive is not about the dogs...

Good job thinking for yourself and doing your homework, first. These dogs are not cheap or easy keepers, so if this is your first dog, read on here in the archives...its a gold mine.

Here is more on tail docking:

https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/animal-health-and-welfare/animal-welfare/tail-docking-dogs