Simple checklist or table or spreadsheet one can use to filter, score, and weight breeders based on consumer needs and standards, see DPCA for ex

[BG1]

I'm at the beginning to gather breeder names
For future search, and rather than ask "what do you think about this or that"

I'm defining my needs, prioroties, the proofs in pedigree or other records so I can rack and stack to my preferences.

DPCA has a good start for "what should you ask breeder, what things to double check by third party proof (ie dobiequest, pedigree-dog.ru, working-dog, etc and
Other attributes one would ask to see proof on...

This is not meant to say My Way is best, just a handy tool anyone can use to organize own info and questions/answers...

Anyone already done this? Got a good example to share online?

This is a wide oen thread feel free to think out of box...

The end state is make it easy for shoppers to be as informed as possible, in a common sense manner, that covers the say- 90% of questions to ask...given that its impossible to standardize something as complicated as dogs and owners needs.

If this ideaspreads- how to empower buyers with a simple tool,

Then it creates consumer demand for those common sense things buyers want.

And that incentivizes good breeders to continue to do best practices and newer breeders to up their game to meet that informed demand.

What say you? Anyone have something to share already?

 

[Ravenbird]

You also have to realize that the most reputable breeders already do most of the testings you are asking about, but not all. They will vary according to their own priorities of what they think is important. Then you must see what is important to you / them that you have in common and see how reasonable it is for either of you to make concessions. Or if it truly is all or nothing for you. In todays world, a highly popular breeder has waiting lists, so they'd essentially blow you off. But an up & coming breeder might be open to new ideas, providing more tests or more diversity for the BREEDS sake rather than for their own recognizance. Also, instead of just-on-paper listed by numbers stuff, a phone call can tell you so much if you "click" with them or don't. I do believe in the power of the consumer, but it takes numbers, and most JQP "just wants a puppy", not a year or two search.

I'm not disagreeing about your goals, just saying what you might come up against. Especially if you are looking for a companion dog rather than a specific show or sport goal - because the most serious breeders have end goals for their efforts, not just selling puppies that specialize in health. Although I think that should be a niche in itself because as was stated in another thread, probably 80 - 90% of Dobermans are pet companions and never trial.

 

[JanS]

I think I could buy addons to be able to easily start a database but I'm not sure of the best options for XF.

 

[BG1]

Thanks @Ravenbird and @JanS
Yeah, I'd be starting with dobequest and filing in the blank by calling breeders after

Here are suggestions from Dr Bell at z2024 DPCA annual mtg on what best breeders should do, and educate public - scroll to middle to end

 

[BG1]

You also have to realize that the most reputable breeders already do most of the testings you are asking about, but not all. They will vary according to their own priorities of what they think is important. Then you must see what is important to you / them that you have in common and see how reasonable it is for either of you to make concessions. Or if it truly is all or nothing for you. In todays world, a highly popular breeder has waiting lists, so they'd essentially blow you off. But an up & coming breeder might be open to new ideas, providing more tests or more diversity for the BREEDS sake rather than for their own recognizance. Also, instead of just-on-paper listed by numbers stuff, a phone call can tell you so much if you "click" with them or don't. I do believe in the power of the consumer, but it takes numbers, and most JQP "just wants a puppy", not a year or two search.

I'm not disagreeing about your goals, just saying what you might come up against. Especially if you are looking for a companion dog rather than a specific show or sport goal - because the most serious breeders have end goals for their efforts, not just selling puppies that specialize in health. Although I think that should be a niche in itself because as was stated in another thread, probably 80 - 90% of Dobermans are pet companions and never trial.

Thanks and a comment- perhaps this might be BEST aimed at pet companion buyers- where education makes the most difference
(And who can scale up as desired...i notice many commenters saying how much they learned on #2, they wished they knew on number 1.)

Maybe by steepening the learning curve it provides broader better demand and
That means more sales to those newer breeders able to up their game and listen to the market...

Heres an example of some ideas at DPCA...what to ask, what to expect:

What To Look For In A Breeder | DPCA

dpca.org

 

[BG1]

I did a quick compilation of suggested questions to ask:

Here are the top five best lists of questions to ask responsible, ethical Doberman breeders.
(From public websites, webforums, reddit...
If someone has a way to search and compile from Fakebook similar, please add:


"Ethical Doberman breeders prioritize breed health (especially against issues like dilated cardiomyopathy/DCM, vWD, hips/elbows, and thyroid), temperament, socialization, and lifetime support. They belong to clubs like the DPCA, UDC,
title their dogs in conformation/sports, limit litters, and provide proof of testing (e.g., OFA certifications, Holter/echo for hearts).
They will ask you many questions too and may require contracts, references, or home checks.


1. Health Testing and Genetic Screening (Most Critical – Dobermans Have Breed-Specific Risks)


These questions appear in nearly every recent forum thread and guide as non-negotiable for ethical breeding.

1. What health tests have you performed on the sire and dam, and when were they done (especially cardiac testing like 24-hour Holter monitor and echocardiogram within the last 6–12 months)?
2. Can you provide copies of the official certificates/results (e.g., OFA for hips/elbows, vWD DNA, thyroid, eyes, and full cardiac reports)?
3. Have you tested for other breed-common issues like hypothyroidism or any additional genetic panels (e.g., via Embark or UC Davis)?
4. What health issues have appeared in your lines or pedigrees historically, and how do you address them?
5. Do you follow DPCA or similar breed club health recommendations, and are your breeding dogs OFA-certified where applicable?

2. Breeding Practices and Experience


Focus on experience, purpose, and ethics —

1. How long have you been breeding Dobermans specifically, and do you belong to the DPCA or local Doberman clubs?
2. How many litters do you produce per year, and how often do you breed each female (ethical limit: few, with full recovery and early retirement)?
3. What is the purpose of this breeding (e.g., to improve conformation, working ability, temperament, longevity)?
4. Do you title your dogs in conformation, obedience, Schutzhund/IPOs, agility, or other sports, and can I see proof/ribbons?
5. Why did you choose this specific sire/dam pairing (pedigree analysis, balancing traits)?

3. Temperament, Socialization, and Puppy Rearing


Recent threads stress early socialization and matching puppies to homes.

1. How do you socialize the puppies (exposures to sounds, people, handling, environments)?
2. What are the temperaments of the sire and dam like, and how do you assess puppy temperaments?
3. At what age do puppies go home, and why (ethical: at least 8 weeks, often later for better development)?
4. How are puppies raised (in-home vs. kennel, with family exposure)?
5. Do you temperament-test or match puppies to homes based on needs?

4. Lifetime Responsibility and Contracts


A hallmark of ethical breeders: they take back dogs no-questions-asked.

1. What does your contract include (health guarantees, spay/neuter requirements, return policy)?
2. Will you take the dog back at any point in its life if it doesn’t work out, no questions asked?
3. Do you provide ongoing support (advice, health updates, resources)?
4. Can I speak to references from previous puppy buyers?
5. What happens if genetic health issues arise later (guarantees, support)?

5. Facility, Parents, and Red Flags Avoidance


Observe in person; recent advice warns against brokers or hidden operations.

1. Can I meet the sire and dam in person (and see them interact)?
2. May I see the whelping/raising environment and how the dogs live day-to-day?
3. Do the breeding dogs live as family pets in the home?
4. Are there any other breeds you breed, or is this Doberman-focused?
5. How do you handle deposits, payments, and puppy selection (ethical: often breeder selects based on temperament,

 

[JanS]

Have you tested for other breed-common issues like hypothyroidism

That is one of the common OFA things breeders get done.

 

[remy]

I just wanted to expand on some of these points a little, I hope you don’t mind!

1. Can you provide copies of the official certificates/results (e.g., OFA for hips/elbows, vWD DNA, thyroid, eyes, and full cardiac reports)?

You can look up the dog’s registered name on OFA and see what tests were done (and submitted). It is not possible to alter those results in anyway.

If hips and/or elbows were done following OFA’s requirements and submitted, the results have to be there assuming the dog passed (it’s optional for failing results to be published). So if they are not listed they were either not done or the results were failing. Some people will use PennHip for hip grading instead however. I don’t believe there is a public database for those results, but if the test was performed the breeder will be able to provide proof.

It seems many people do not submit DNA results and sometimes cardiac info as well to OFA. While it would definitely make things easier to verify if they were listed, it’s not automatically a red flag to not see those tests on OFA. Ask the breeder to show proof. If they cannot then you can move on with your search.

1. Do you title your dogs in conformation, obedience, Schutzhund/IPOs, agility, or other sports, and can I see proof/ribbons?

I can’t speak for all venues/organizations, but I know for AKC conformation and sports you can lookup the dog’s registration number and view their “points progression”. It will list all of the sports they’ve qualified in, how many points or qualifying runs they have towards certain titles, what titles they have, etc…

1. Can I meet the sire and dam in person (and see them interact)?

This would likely only be an option if the breeder owns both the sire and dam, which many do not. The sire isn’t always local to the breeder either. It’s not uncommon to drive far away to the male for breeding or use fresh/frozen semen.

1. May I see the whelping/raising environment and how the dogs live day-to-day?

I would think any ethical breeder would have no issue showing pictures or videos of the space, but I wouldn’t be put off if you cannot go in person. Puppies are very fragile and brining people into the space, especially those who have dogs at home, can put the puppies at risk.

 

[Ravenbird]

I just wanted to expand on some of these points a little,

I thought of these very things as I was reading - you stated everything perfectly.

It seems many people do not submit DNA results and sometimes cardiac info as well to OFA. While it would definitely make things easier to verify if they were listed, it’s not automatically a red flag to not see those tests on OFA. Ask the breeder to show proof. If they cannot then you can move on with your search.

Wouldn't the best route for breeders who are doing everything they can is to just have a CHIC number? I'd have to look it up, but I think that means they've completed & passed all tests required/suggested by the breed club? Gah, not being a breeder I see these things but can't remember the exact description...

Maybe by steepening the learning curve it provides broader better demand and
That means more sales to those newer breeders able to up their game and listen to the market.

That's why I keep bringing this topic up. So many people have no idea that this is not a breed to just go out and pick one from a litter on Craigslist. They just don't know better. And on the other end of the stick, these same people looking for a companion Doberman locally are not going to have $3,000+ to spend, they aren't going to spend hours and hours on the internet searching for a year or two to find a breeder that ticks all the boxes. Once you've owned a Doberman and know the downfalls of health, or temperament flaws, or simply want to do the best you can, then the rabbit hole is there to go down. Education is the key - when you know better you do better.

Just this morning I saw a post on an OFA discussion site from someone wanting to test their dog over and beyond the expected standard for that breed (not Dobermans). She got some condisending comments from others in her club for "looking for problems that didn't exist". It's a vicious circle for sure.

 

[remy]

Wouldn't the best route for breeders who are doing everything they can is to just have a CHIC number? I'd have to look it up, but I think that means they've completed & passed all tests required/suggested by the breed club? Gah, not being a breeder I see these things but can't remember the exact description...

You would think so… There was a discussion recently about this on FB (in a Doberman group). Essentially they were asking who submitted all results to OFA, and if they didn’t, why not? It seemed like 50% did and 50% didn’t.

These are the requirements needed to obtain a CHIC number. The WAE just needs to be taken, not passed. Something to keep in mind for those who don’t know, the Working Aptitude Evaluation only has a few approved evaluators (I believe just 4 or 5) and the events are few and far between. These are the only ones listed for 2026 so far. 2 in the US and 1 in Canada.

 

[Ravenbird]

Thanks @remy!

True on the WAEs - I thought I'd never find one close to me, but finally one happened *only* 200 miles away. My advice is if you are wanting to do one, keep checking the DPCA page, because some are not announced with much advance notice!

 

[BG1]

Thanks @remy and @Ravenbird
Yes this post is wide open to anyone sharing, giving opinion, tips and level setting with reality checks by long experienced in show/trails owners and breeders: that frank feedback is absolutely vital. No judgements all viewpoints welcome.

Its one thing to talk about best practices, or mosn and finger point about "greeders" in anonymous forums, its far more difficult to actually do a good/great job, so thats my wish...

To find a tool that works for choosing best pet grade breeders/dogs with proof, and show how that scales up, to higher end performance.

The end state is educating buyers, to objectively measure breeders and that in turn demonstrates the value of higher standards, which supports realistic expectations on price, both in $$$ and time invested in the dig.

You cant fix stupid, but you can help educate those new to the process and empower them with facts, so they are not ignorant, at least in the first stages. Then its up to them to continue.

Make it go viral is next.

 

[Ravenbird]

Make it go viral is next.

Only problem is, I don't think most are aware of any problems, nor a reason to use a fine tooth comb to find a Doberman.

 

[JanS]

I don't think most are aware of any problems, nor a reason to use a fine tooth comb to find a Doberman.

A Doberman or any other breed for that matter. I had a coworker asking about Corgi pups and I told him I knew a responsible breeder so he asked the price. It was something like $1,200 and I got the "are they out of their mind?" from a few people saying they can get one for much less from a BYB.

 

[BG1]

Only problem is, I don't think most are aware of any problems, nor a reason to use a fine tooth comb to find a Doberman.

Perhaps you are right.

 

[BG1]

I did stumble upon this while browsing working-dog ;

Someone is using code generator app and AI to assemble data into a useful layperson level tool.

Lots of very bright people interested in doing good for dogs!

 

[JanS]

I posted this one on my FB page a few days ago but there are some good tips there.

29K views · 1.2K reactions | What to look for in an ethical Doberman breeder. Bottom line Backyard Breeders are all about profit and not about improving the quality of their dogs. Ethical preservation breeders are all about the dogs. They do everyt

What to look for in an ethical Doberman breeder. Bottom line Backyard Breeders are all about profit and not about improving the quality of their dogs. Ethical preservation breeders are all about the...

www.facebook.com

 

[Ravenbird]

Someone is using code generator app and AI to assemble data into a useful layperson level tool.

What I must insert here - especially for layperson levels - stats are just that. Information on paper. Numbers and test results. High scores and no scores at all.

It takes a human brain, eyes, observation, common sense and in some instances just some kind of intuition. Especially when it comes to breeding and learning how wildly different outcomes can be from the same litter. Especially being able to hone in on a desired temperament. All the WACs, ATTs, age related TT's on Dobermans in UDC trials - those can only tell you pass or fail or never tested. I watched 20 some-odd dogs take the WAE when I went. Speaking only of the ones that passed, there were extreme differences in personality, some extremely stranger-friendly and not so bold, but well balanced on all accounts for passing. Others were totally aloof and others more nervous, but still passing. Then you have the physical body and we have so many "styles" now, that if a breeder chose a mate by paper stats and a photo of the dog sitting, I'd have no faith in that breeder at all. I'm 100% for more diversity but I also know you can't breed an elegant bitch with a heavy Euro and get the happy medium build you're looking for. You might get a heavy dog with fine bone (a disaster) or the elegant head on a heavy body. Breeding is an art as well as a science. Think of temperament the same way: try to fix a shy dog by breeding to an extremely bold dog and you very well could create a fearful dog that's quick to bite.

I like the ideas of data bases where I can scroll through information and make educated decisions for myself. Or in the case of shopping for a puppy/breeder, scroll through their breedings, the info on that kennels pedigrees and see if that breeder creating the puppy you've dreamed of.

It's weird how more & more breeders have social media accounts and have let their websites lapse, or have no website at all. The SM sites change daily, it's hard to go look at previous litters, they constantly use call names when doing "brags" so you have no idea what litter or breeding that dog is. I doubt they enjoy being pestered with messages asking "what litter is "JoeJoe" from in that post you made in December 2021?" I have never done that because I'm not shopping for a puppy, but so many times I think wow, that's my kind of dog - but I can't find a thing on how old, what breeding or anything.