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Backyard Breeder vs Reputable Breeder

Discussion in 'Doberman Breeders' started by FredC, Jan 7, 2009.

  1. MicheleM

    MicheleM Active Member

    I understand that, but I have a right to share my opinion. I'm sure your dog is great but some dogs would not respond well and I will never trust a dog around small children. I understand why you shared that video but I just felt uncomfortable watching.

    • Like Like x 2
  2. sammy

    sammy Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Michele, I think that the clip you're referring to is one of those few "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenarios. With all the retaping we do on cropped ears, most Dobies will not be as sensitive to having their ears played with - as Von said earlier it will depend on the dog. Yet what you say about trusting a dog with children is true as well. However I think it's good to see that the Dobe realized it's a child and its demeanor was never in the least threatening; something we all want to see. This is good.And obviously the owner knows its dog very well. Makes me think that despite Dobes and GSD's being ultimate working dogs, we don't hear much these days about them being killers in the news - full credit to the breed and its owners :)

    Anyway I'm not sure why I'm posting this - you obviously have more experience in Dobes than most people will ever have and know all this already :D
    • Like Like x 3
  3. Nixie

    Nixie Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I was wondering if there is a way to find out the pedigree of a dog if it was rescued and you have no papers. We rescued Vegas 1 1/2 years ago. He has a clean bill of health, which is great. I do not know if he came from a BYB or a reputable breeder. This is just a curiosity question.
  4. DocReverto

    DocReverto Formerly CRD

    Do you have a microchip number? You could try pulling info off of that, but your chances without papers are very slim.
    Knowing the breeder and the sire and damn will go miles.
    If Vegas is from a byb chances are bill she even registers her dogs so there would not be much for pedigree information.
  5. DocReverto

    DocReverto Formerly CRD

    Between forums and Facebook I am just seeing way to many bybers making a killing this holiday season. I just don't understand how hard it is to get? I know we all have to start somewhere, and most people join the forums after they already have the dog, but seriously.

    Running commercials??
    I knew fall to early winter was a huge puppy buying time, but man have I been seeing way to much of this.
    • Like Like x 4
  6. MicheleM

    MicheleM Active Member

    I'm sure that My Buddy's dog and their toddler are perfectly fine together and I'm sure MyBuddy would have never done it if she wasn't absolutely fine with the toddler playing with the dogs ears. I felt uncomfortable watching the video because I have seen and heard several stories over the years of things going horribly wrong when young children are playing around with dogs. I think young children need to be supervised with dogs and never left alone with them. I think parents and guardians need to teach children how to approach a dog and be taught that all dogs are different. You may beable to pull at one dogs ears but another dog might respond differently.
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Marinegeekswife

    Marinegeekswife Hot Topics Subscriber

    But do you see how it can be seen as rude that you would call her out like that? Especially after she specifically stated in the thread how she was watching carefully and warned the child to be nice to Buddy. Giving advice is great, stepping on toes doesn't help anyone.
    • Like Like x 2
  8. MicheleM

    MicheleM Active Member

    I have told MyBuddy how I feel, the video that we are speaking of is from an experienced Doberman owner that was comfortable in letting her toddler interact with her Doberman.
    I wonder if it was a new person to this forum that showed this video if the reaction to it might be different. I also wonder if a new person to this forum that doesn't have the experience with this breed watches and thinks its okay to let there child tug at their dogs ears.

    I personally felt uncomfortable watching it and I think now this is the fourth time I've stated I have a right to my opinion. Repeating myself again, MyBuddy has the experience with the breed and felt comfortable enough to video the interaction between her dog and her toddler. I worry that this might send mixed messages to people that have small children that it's okay to tug or play with dogs ears. It doesn't matter if the dog is a Doberman or a lab things happen with tragic consequences.
  9. sammy

    sammy Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    But that's the point though - she expressly stated however many times that it is not OK and will not be tolerated - she was showing her dog's good attitude rather than advocating playing with ears me thinks :)
    • Like Like x 3
  10. Marinegeekswife

    Marinegeekswife Hot Topics Subscriber

    Yes you have the right to your opinion. No one said you have to shut up or whatever you seem to have read into it. But being rude about it is unnecessary. Just like you have the right to express your opinion she has the right to share what she wants of her dogs. A lot of people would disapprove of my videos of my dogs working protection. Doesn't mean I should stop sharing them or stop training. You can't control what people on the Internet are going to say or do with what you put out there. But harping on it isn't helping teach anyone anything.
    • Like Like x 3
  11. kaloric

    kaloric Notable member

    Ignorance is always best countered with information. People still won't really register the information unless they care and can be convinced that doing things the right way is going to be a win for them. I don't agree with D4E on a lot of things, but one thing I absolutely agree on is that people who cut corners and take gambles can quickly find themselves far behind when their bets don't pay off. I'll veer just a little OT here and say it's the very same situation as where people who worked in American factories bought cheap imported goods from Wal*Mart because they just couldn't see the value in justifying their own employment, or the employment of their neighbors, over a lame price point. Value always runs deeper than "cheap" or "easy".

    The other alternative would be to make the things that truly reputable breeders do, like health testing of their breeding stock, mandatory before the offspring could be registered. If the registration did mean something, because it was at the very least a symbol of the barebones basic important things, if it was at least a halfway reliable indicator of soundness in registered puppies, I think that would probably be easy enough for even the people who feel overwhelmed at the magnitude of the pet-buying choice to at least have a solid place to start. I love analogies, so just think of the Toyota Certified Pre-Owned Vehicle branding; folks will pay a premium for those vehicles because you're not just getting the title to a car, you're getting the title to a health-checked car.

    So, generally speaking, I would really like to know how many people out there are selling completely unregistered purebred puppies. I'm really skeptical that it's widespread or common, mostly because it takes so little effort to just go ahead ahead and get the papers done right even if the pedigree sucks. I can't recall seeing a single lead I had which involved unpapered Dobes, aside from the rescue organizations. Some of the leads I followed were scraping the bottom of the barrel, even those dogs were papered even though the breeders and their dogs all sucked. :(
    • Like Like x 4
  12. Liberty & Justice

    Liberty & Justice Formerly Sophia's Justice Hot Topics Subscriber

    Is it so ridiculous to fall in love with a pet that cost you measly $ 500, only to turn around in the next few years spending thousands to save that pet from some unwanted disease, to see it suffer from the pain that its in, to cause you distress ? And to support and allow a BYB to continue an improper breeding practice that only fills the shelters of unwanted dogs, or worse unhealthy sick unwanted dogs .

    Or is it more sound to spend several thousands of dollars to achieve that pet that is a purebred, disease free, has the looks and the temperament you always wanted in a pet ? Let's not forget saving you thousands of dollars in unnecessary vet bills, the savior of pain on you and more importantly your pet ?

    I personally spent thousands on each one of my dogs, but I was assured health guarantee's, I was assured proper breeding, I was assured phenomenal temperaments and looks. If I had a dollar for everyone that told me either of my two was either Regal, Beautiful, Stunning, or simply Gorgeous It'd pay for all their fees upfront. Not too mention I never worry about either of their bloodlines.

    I often encourage people to really figure out their budgets to insure they in fact can afford a pet. Are you going to complain about their food costs, their vet bills, and worse are you going to provide a budget food ? Then seriously people, STOP buying dogs if you cannot afford them !!!Tell the children/spouse you promised that you simply cannot afford one, and that it's for the better at this time in our lives. Have the respect for the animal, not you or your feeble needs to satisfy.

    I take my dog ownership to a higher level, these are my children, I look at them as nearly flesh and blood. I never sacrifice a price on food, a vet bill, a trip to the vet for health reasons/shots/worming, toys or necessary health maintenance. I could afford it, so without a doubt I get the best for me, my dogs, and yes I have a child that wanted one too. Do I sacrifice other needs ? Maybe, I have less toys as I used to prior to my two coming home, but I find more joy in coming home to Liberty and Justice, more so than a boat, or what have you.

    So in short to Justify a price ? YOU ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR !!!
    • Like Like x 1
  13. MicheleM

    MicheleM Active Member

  14. Liberty & Justice

    Liberty & Justice Formerly Sophia's Justice Hot Topics Subscriber

    Well I have to say something here:

    Being a automotive wholesaler and in the automotive business for 20 + years entitles me to answer. YES !!!

    You buy a cheap kia these days for what 25k new.....that car costs you more overall in a couple of ways, breakdowns ( no the warranties they offer cover little that break ), overall maintenance ( cheap timing belts every 60k ) the chinsy feel one get's when behind the wheel, and let's not forget RE-SALE value. I can buy an 08-09 kia at the auction for 4-5k ( some variables there ), I'll take that same car that costs let's use 40k, a lexus, bmw, hell even a ford, and I'll make that money go further with my 15k more investment from the start, not too mention I'll still get 25k back in the same amount of time I used the Kia for. Most of those 40k + cars come with free maintenance for the first few years, the quality is bar none to what your Kia gave me, not too mention safety factors.

    So yes the first initial investment is far worth the costs by spending more. Remember you get what you pay for prevails in conversations like these.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. DocReverto

    DocReverto Formerly CRD

    From another member in the auto world, I could not agree more.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    @ Ataro
    2) How much you spend on your dog's health is individual. Some will spend upwards of ten thousand to prolong their dog's life, I personally would not. If it was not something curable, I would not spend endless amounts of money on palliative care. Maybe that makes me sound harsh, but it's the truth. I would do the same were it my own health at stake.

    Are you kidding me?? Harsh? that is down right heartless. My friends found Greta dying in their neighbors backyard. They called me because they knew I was keeping on eye on her because I was very concerned about her well being. I went over there and put her in my car and took her to an emergency clinic to save her life. I made her a promise that night that I would do anything in my power to keep her from suffering ever again. My word is worth more than my pocket book. What have I gotten in return? the most loving faithful dog that I could ever hope for.Sure I have I have spent some bucks on this girl, but she has given it back to me tenfold.
    If I were a breeder, I would cross you off my list because I would be afraid that if the pup got sick you would just put it down. Owning a dog is NOT like owning a pair of jeans. You can't give it away because it no longer fits. It is a commitment to make to love and take care of for life. Not just something you take into the show ring to put notches in your belt.
  17. Ataro

    Ataro Notable member

    A lot of exaggerated, emotional statements made by someone who doesn't even know me. If I didn't want to spend on vet bills, I wouldn't have bothered to take my pets to the vet every time they needed to go. You probably haven't been keeping up with my threads or the like before passing judgement, but if you had, you would know that in the past two years I have dealt with a lot of health issues with pets and can you imagine, I was even involved in rescue (those poor cats that all ended up in loving homes!) - and no, apart from one puppy that had end stage kidney failure and subsequent aggression issues, I did not put any of them down.

    Before you start ranting on about showing and jeans and what not, labelling me as an evil doer, you would do well to have the facts first: I have owned mutts most of my life, have rescued several species including dogs, and I have never given a pet up to a shelter, thrown it out on the street etc. The only two times I have put an animal down were the case described above and my first dog, who had mammary cancer at age 14, because she did not have much of a chance of surviving if operated on and was showing clear signs of pain. I simply stated that I don't believe in spending money on something that cannot be fixed, and yes I believe in euthanasia (we probably hold opposing opinions on that). I place quality over quantity when it comes to life.
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Dobs4ever

    Dobs4ever Hot Topics Subscriber

    A registry is just that a registry - It was not ever intended to hog tie breeders or be the breeders police, but to provide for them a place to register their dogs so the history would be recorded for each generation to follow.

    Yet they have stepped up and support the OFA data base, The CHIC program, and spend millions a year on their Canine Research foundation. They were never set up to be the police for breeders and they should not be. Nor were they set up to monitor health but they do support breeders by their research and their DNA verificaiton program.

    In a free society breeders are the ones who decided what they do or don't do. Some do more than others and you have to do your research to see who you feel supports your list of must haves.

    Obvioulsy many don't have a clue and just think a Doberman is a Doberman and any old one will do. But what the registry did for us to to help guarantee the status of the gene pool as purebred once the stud books were closed. Why shouldn't the people who buy dogs have some responsiblity to educate themselves??? And I will add that many go to these low life registries and breeders because a good breeder would not have placed a dog with full registration in their hands so they think they will skirt the system and then find out they can't even show the dog they got if they ever had any real intentions of showing to begin with.

    Then they spent a lot of time slamming good breeders because they got turned down.
  19. Dobs4ever

    Dobs4ever Hot Topics Subscriber

    Do you know the name of the sire and dam of Vegas??? If so you can PM me and I will see what I can find out for you.

    Good breeders will list the info in Dobequest for preservation of the future of the history of the breed.
    BYB can't list there because they are not a member of DPCA.

    That is what a registry is a history of the ancestory of dogs and they also oversee Dog shows, the Canine Health Foundation, OFA database etc.
  20. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    Anytime you post something on a public forum you are opening yourself up to judgement. So if you don't like to be judged, don't post.
    Not every disease is fatal or means suffering and some can be managed with medication. I will do what I have to do to manage my dogs health and pray I know when it is time to give up that fight.
    I am not opposed in the least to euthanasia. Actually, when my dad was sick with end stage Parkinson's my family as a whole took a look at it because he was suffering so much. We anguished over several options because we wanted nothing but the best and least painful thing for him. In the end, it was my dad's decision not to go that way because the ones left behind would pay the price. It is still illegal and not a decision to take lightly because we are humans trying to play God. Who would not prefer to see their loved one have a peaceful passing and not suffer any longer. But something that just requires an expensive medication does not call for death.
    As far as any posting you have done, I get the impression you are looking for the perfect puppy from the perfect breeder. All I can say is good luck finding that.

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