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Adorable designer mixes? Not for me...

Discussion in 'Canine News/Informative Articles' started by JanS, Jan 30, 2015.

  1. Tropicalbri's

    Tropicalbri's $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    You should see how people dress themselves and their dogs for the pet costume and pet parade contests during "Fantasy Fest".
    There are no adequate words to describe it or Fantasy Fest itself. Lol

     
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  2. JanS

    JanS DCF Owner Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    I came across this today and it's so true...

    *Why an Ethical Breeder won’t cross their Bernese Mountain Dog with another breed*

    Breeders in Australia and World Wide are increasingly being asked for ‘Berner-doodles’ or other crosses of Bernese Mountain Dog.
    Some reasons I have heard for people wanting these crosses are; my partner and I cant agree on which breed so we would like a cross of both, I want a dog that doesn’t shed, I want a smaller bernese, I want a hypoallergenic dog.

    Crossing a Bernese Mountain dog with another breed will not give you a cute mix of both or eliminate health issues, often it can double up on health issues and add more, new, and or different ones in the progeny.

    Your dog generally won’t look like either breed and sometimes end up really not very attractive or certainly less attractive as an adult as the individual breeds used to make it up.

    Hybrid vigor being a reason for someone to cross 2 breeds to supply a fad demand isn’t real. It is a catch phrase invented by someone who wished to create bigger demand for the ‘product’, a cross-bred dog with a ‘cute’ or ‘clever’ name. They have no proof that their ‘product’ will be healthier especially as in 99% of cases not a single official health test is done on either parent, a Vet check prior to breeding is NOT ‘Health Testing’

    How do they know they aren’t breeding dogs with terrible health histories together? Poodles and Bernese both can have a propensity for Hip Dysplasia and also Eye issues, many eye issues don’t show in dogs (for example progressive retinal atrophy) until they are older and they will go blind, there is no cure. Bernese may also add to the mix different Cancers, Elbow Dysplasia, Bloat, Auto Immune issues, Poodles may add Patella Luxation, Heart issues, Cushings disease, Epilepsy, von Willebrands Disease, Degenerative Myelopathy and Bloat amongst others.

    By then the ‘breeder’ will only be able to say ‘sorry I didn’t know’ and you are left with the heartbreak.

    Often they have purchased the parents from other back yard breeders who do not health test or underhandedly from Registered Ethical Breeders who would be horrified to know what they were doing.

    An Ethical Registered Breeder should have health data on their dogs, their dogs’ parents/grandparents/siblings and progeny. They can predict the health, size and temperament that will be produced to a fair degree, they know the lines well. A ‘breeder’ who cross breeds for a fad will most certainly not. Mixing temperaments of two totally different breeds can also mess with their heads, they don’t know if they are rounding up or retrieving, guarding or fighting. Many mixes can have general anxiety and separation anxiety issues and occasionally aggression due to these clashes of purpose.

    Ethical Registered breeders must agree to and abide by a code of conduct, which includes, not cross breeding dogs and not breeding unregistered dogs (no pedigree papers)

    Crossing two breeds will not give you a Bernese that doesn’t shed. It will give you a coat that is half and half, a coat that is a Bernese coat or a coat that is a poodle coat. As a puppy the ‘breeder’ will likely have no idea which coat will be which and chances are you could get a bigger shedding or harder coat to look after than either breed by them selves.

    An Oodle coat must be brushed and Combed to the SKIN very regularly or it will matt tightly and cause the dog pain.
    Many people brush the outer coat and think they are doing a good job but the coat is tightly matted to the skin underneath and is very, very painful for the dog to have groomed out and most groomers will refuse to cause this pain to the dog (rightly so) the dog will need to be shaved to the skin and start again.
    To maintain a long coat the dog will need to be professionally groomed every 4 weeks and thoroughly combed out several times a week.
    This is more work than a Bernese coat.

    It is not less work to have a cross so you can vacuum less and not brush your dog.

    In fact THIS is what happens if an Oodle coat is not regularly maintained.
    [​IMG]
    So even if you do get one that does not shed it certainly will matt like crazy.

    Please look for a naturally non-shedding breed like a Lagotto, Portuguese Water Dog, Irish Water Spaniel, Afghan Hound, Bedlington Terrier, Bichon Frise, Chinese Crested Dog, Poodle, Maltese, Soft Coated Wheated, Lakeland terrier, Schnauzer, Coton De Tulear, or a short haired breed.

    Or even get the breed you want and have him professionally groomed every 4-6 weeks and you will have minimal up keep at home. Don’t fall for a fad and support ‘breeders’ who don’t care to preserve the wonderful temperaments, physical and working abilities of the Bernese Mountain Dog, there is no other reason to purposely ruin a beautiful and special breed other than fad breeding for money to fill a niche market.

    Just remember..... even Wally Conron the man who invented the 'Labradoodle' regrets what he did A Designer Dog-Maker Regrets His Creation

    Lindsay Thomson
    Vevey Bernese
     
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  3. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I know this is just one itty piece of information and it could be a total fluke, but I ran into an acquaintance who was sitting with his wife on the patio of a local brewery. He had his AussieDoodle with him. In the past he had told me how his dog at the dog park is sort of a problem in how it irritates the other dogs then gets submissive when the other dogs let him know about it. Well, I am talking to this guy and I just put my hand down in front of the dog and it starts growling at me. I believe I had even adopted a squatting position. I mean, we are in a public place!
     
  4. Horselady

    Horselady Member

    The labradoodle is a "breed" in a way though. It was started with a purpose. To be a hypoallergenic service dog for the blind, epileptic s, etc. They have multi generations and they aren't considered a real labradoodle until f3 I think?

    I've never owned a mutt. Not that they don't deserve love, but I just don't seem to fall for them. The chowsky is stinking cute, but what a BAD cross. The drive of a husky with the unpredictability of a chow chow? Yikes.
     
  5. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    Hmm..... Somebody is going to have to do a lot more taking to convince me mixing breeds is a good idea. I fell in love with the doberman for specific reasons. I love their drive, high drive dogs are just so much fun to work with. Their beauty, I watch Drake or any dobe and they turn and look at me, OMG, that sleek hunk of muscle just standing there just takes my breath away. The list goes on and on. Intelligence, loyalty and protectiveness are all things I love. Of course we can't forget the low maintenance aspect. How many dogs could I take to the river and let go hog wild, get wet, muddy and full of sand and by the time we are back to the car, that mess is gone?
    Admittedly I know very little about genetics or breeding and the health issues of the dobie is a huge concern. I'm just not sure that changing the breed to make it healthier is the answer. Yes, I want a healthy dog that can live a long life with me but I am hesitant to give up the traits I love so much. IDK, but it seems like finding the answers to the problems is a much better solution.
     
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  6. Drogon

    Drogon Hot Topics Subscriber

    The Dobermann is a designer mixed breed. Karl Friedrich Louis Dobermann mixed different breeds and designed the Dobermann. It just happened a long time ago.
     
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  7. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber




    I understand that but feel it was so long ago that it has become a breed that has almost been perfected. Just concerned that adding in other breeds to improve it could change the breed to something we weren't looking for.
     
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  8. Horselady

    Horselady Member

    No. But with the labradoodle, if people kept at it long enough, set a standard kept track of bloodlines and got them to breed true (consistently produce close to the standard) then it would be a breed. The guy who started them regrets it mainly due to the money made by unethical breeders. People will seek money, can't stop it. Just have to educate the public but even then, breeders set the margin.... 2-3k for a Doberman from a great breeder or under 1k for a Doberman from a "back yard breeder" who doesn't have their dogs living in a kennel, is more interested in temperament than looks, etc. I can see why it happens these days.
     
  9. bomary

    bomary Hot Topics Subscriber

    So off the topic, but...I could not agree with you more about the sheer beauty of these Dobes. When I look at the pictures/videos everybody posts on here, I sometimes get chills (I know I get chills a lot and tell y'all about it) when I take in how majestic they are. Watching my boy just run full on in a field or after his ball, I am always astonished at how athletic and agile he is.

    I'm a new Doberman owner and certainly no expert in genetics at all, but I get very nervous when people talk about "mixing it up" with any breed. It's a controversial deal, I know. For me...I love Dobermans, and I'd rather make our already-established breed healthier through testing/research/studies than to start throwing other unknown variables in the mix.
    Again...zero knowledge, really...just my thoughts. I love my boy (and loved my Dad's boys) so much for every single Doberman trait (including the ones that make us crazy!) My Dad had both of his guys for 13+ years...I hope I am so lucky.
     
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  10. Gelcoater

    Gelcoater Expert ThreadCrapper $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber

    I agree completely.
    Maybe it's just a matter of time before labradoodles or whatever are accepted. And maybe some will never make the cut?
    Time will tell.
    The Doberman is recognized as a working breed, and has proven itself in the world. Many an old timer police man or WWII Pacific theatre vet, service dog user, among others will confirm.
    Time will tell for these new "breeds".
     
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  11. JanS

    JanS DCF Owner Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

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  12. WiglWerm

    WiglWerm Hot Topics Subscriber

    I DO NOT like the looks of the "Doodleman Pincher" AT ALL. :sick:
     
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  13. AresMyDobie

    AresMyDobie Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Ugh. This stuff drives me nuts. Stop it just, freaking stop it. I to often get proudly told at work what mix a clients dog is, it's so hard for me to be like ... That's a mutt. People need to stop glorifing these non proven genetics. As said you have no clue the temperament of what is produced, no clue the health, or what the dog is capable of. "Hypoallergenic" such a fraudulent statement, it's not the hair people are allergic to, it's the dander. Every animal, including humans must shed its skin, or they are not maintaining proper hygiene. It drives me nuts. I have two mutts, I love them, but compared to Ares you see a drastic different in a lot of things.
     
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  14. AresMyDobie

    AresMyDobie Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    And a doodleman.. Really. Where's the trash can I'm gonna puke, why ruin the worlds more perfect dog like that !
     
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  15. Viemarangelrock

    Viemarangelrock $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Oh dear god! No...just no! :(

    I cannot believe how much money people shell out for a 'designer dog.' It's not a designer dog it's a high-priced freakin mongrel. Argh!!!

    When it becomes all about the quantity and not quality then that is very sad. A pure-bred in the U.K can range from £1000-£1500 yet a cross breed can reach up to £2000. Something is very very wrong.

    Give it a fancy name with the promise of the 'best of both breeds', that's just ridiculous. The reality is you are supporting and feeding money into puppy mills and commercial breeders. Accepting a dog with little or no testing.

    The sad part....the 'designer dog' with all its issues is a living, breathing soul. :(

    You want a mutt? Then don't be an ass and support this stupidity go to the shelters and rescues and your local humane society or animal control. There are so many awesome dogs there that could be mutts or pure breeds but wouldn’t be called designer that are truly great pets looking for a second chance. That's what I did many many years ago. I had a mutt, called Jake. He was such an awesome dog.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
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  16. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I think this is a misrepresentation.

    Yes, the Dobermann is one of the "designer breeds" to come out of Germany at the end of the 19th century but it is a different thing from what we term designer breeds today.

    Herr Dobermann took specimens from the dog pound at which he worked and bred them together to develop a dog he envisioned. Yes, we speculate that some of these breeds were long-established, such as the German Shepherd (of the day) and the Rottweiler. The Greyhound is said to have been introduced at some point. We hear of the German Shorthaired Pointer, the Manchester Terrier, etcetera.

    I feel the Dobermann was developed from humble beginnings using a wide variety of dogs – likely some of them not established breeds. Its designer had a simple goal: personal bodyguard. This sets the Doberman apart from almost all other breeds.

    This is different from taking a long-established breed and mixing it with the Poodle in order to market a "non-shedding" dog.

    Herr Dobermann started to develop a breed of dog to fill a personal need.

    He did not mix two noble breeds for financial gain.
     
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  17. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber





    This is exactly what I was talking about earlier in this thread....adding other breeds to improve the doberman could get us something we don't want.
    No! No! Just No!! Those pics do not represent the the beautiful dog I know and love. And as @Oh Little Oji said this was done for profit. Wrong.....just wrong!
     
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  18. Tropicalbri's

    Tropicalbri's $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Fully AGREE!
    I have clients that have golden doodles / labradoodles and when I ask what's in the dog's woodpile they get offended." My dog is not a mutt, it's a whatever doodle". I keep telling them it's a MIXED breed same as a mutt.
    Guess I am lucky I don't get fired. Hahaha
     
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  19. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    "Doodles" and "Poos" are quite popular around my neighborhood, I must say. So common to see the shaggy, wavy-haired dogs. Surprising how many of them are quite tall.

    I must also mention that actual Standard Poodles are not all that rarely seen here too. I remember complimenting a woman on a great looking black one.

    Our neighbors three houses up the street got a miniature Aussie Doodle. It may be called an Aussie Poo actually. So far I haven't heard it yapping but a couple times, but I predict that will change when spring and summer arrive.
     
  20. NikiL02

    NikiL02 Formerly Nlr02 $ Forum Donor $

    Not all doodle or poos are non-shedders either. Lady at the dog park had a labradooble that shed long hair all over Nero. Less than a lab obviously but still not like a poodle.

    Theres no real standard for these either. They look like poodles, they look like labs they have long or short or curly hair or not, they shed and dont shed. A breed is a breed when you can consistently produce the desired dog.
     
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