"WZ" in AKC a Doberman Registration Number

[Dobie Wan Knobie]

IMHO, you shouldn't use an ecollar while she is in her kennel. A kennel is a safe zone, and they should not be worn when sleeping or resting. An ecollar should only be used on a previously trained dog that understands the commands that are given, and then it may be used to reenforce those commands when off leash. It is very important that you train yourself in the proper use of the ecollar before using it on your dog, or you could cause significant damage to your training program, and mess her up other ways.
E-collars are a great training tool, but the dog must be leash trained first, and have full knowledge of what you are asking it to do before you use it.

 

[AresMyDobie]

IMHO, you shouldn't use an ecollar while she is in her kennel. A kennel is a safe zone, and they should not be worn when sleeping or resting. An ecollar should only be used on a previously trained dog that understands the commands that are given, and then it may be used to reenforce those commands when off leash. It is very important that you train yourself in the proper use of the ecollar before using it on your dog, or you could cause significant damage to your training program, and mess her up other ways.
E-collars are a great training tool, but the dog must be leash trained first, and have full knowledge of what you are asking it to do before you use it.

I think he means the cone lol

 

[Dobie Wan Knobie]

I think he means the cone lol

Well, I hope so, as that would make more sense, but I've never heard it called an ecollar.
I had visions of someone correcting their dog with an e-collar while in a kennel, and it gave me the chills. I'm thinking, go easy on her, she just had surgery.

 

[kevn]

In Wikipedia, E-Collar is an Elizabethan collar, or "Pet Cone". I would never use an electric collar for training or punishment in or out of a kennel! Using those things for training, in my opinion, isn't good. Weren't aliens often using electric collars on the Enterprise crew for punishment on the old 60s Star Trek episodes? They didn't seem to like it.

 

[AresMyDobie]

In Wikipedia, E-Collar is an Elizabethan collar, or "Pet Cone". I would never use an electric collar for training or punishment in or out of a kennel! Using those things for training, in my opinion, isn't good. Weren't aliens often using electric collars on the Enterprise crew for punishment on the old 60s Star Trek episodes? They didn't seem to like it.

Lol don't worry e-collar can mean electric collar lol sometimes it gets confused lol not a big deal I'm sure she is loving the cone lol electric collars are a great training aid after the dog understand what a corrections is. They don't hurt the dog its a stimulant.

 

[Dobie Wan Knobie]

They used them in Planet of the Apes too, but then that is science fiction.

 

[MischasMomma]

I'm a little late here since now it's clarified but I took it as he meant the cone of shame too lol... My vet refers to that as an e collar.

@kevn when you say youd never use an electric collar, may I ask why? I absolutely love the fact that we have an invisible fence and can let the dogs run and play off leash. Theres extensive training involved in it and there's a warning before the shock stimulation. 9 out of 10 times our dog backs up when he hears the beep and I think he's gotten the shock maybe once in the last year. I plan to use a remote electric collar in the future as well, which is a similar idea. @AresMyDobie or @Drogon I know for a fact use them regularly and could explain the way it's used better. I only really understand the invisible fence lol

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[Dobie Wan Knobie]

When you google it you get both results, but since I've never had a need for a cone it's never come across my radar. Both e-collars are perfectly safe for canines as long as they are used correctly.

 

[MischasMomma]

When you google it you get both results, but since I've never had a need for a cone it's never come across my radar. Both e-collars are perfectly safe for canines as long as they are used correctly. [emoji14]

Same here. I've never used a cone, but when Mischa gets spayed that might be the exception why do I have a feeling she'll be the first dog ever to give me trouble?? I only knew the term because when misty got surgery on her foot, they wanted to charge me $30 for an "e collar"

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[Rits]

** MODERATOR NOTE: **

There seems to be a good and healthy discussion here about Negative vs Positive training and the use of e-collars as a training tool. I moved those posts to their own thread. Please continue that discussion here. Thank you!

 

[GennyB]

** MODERATOR NOTE: **

There seems to be a good and healthy discussion here about Negative vs Positive training and the use of e-collars as a training tool. I moved those posts to their own thread. Please continue that discussion here. Thank you!

I just read through this thread and was wondering what was NOT going to be covered. Perhaps it would have better to just rename the thread. Maybe something like "Everything you ever wanted to know about dobermans in one thread "

 

[MischasMomma]

Hahaha very true! I guess we did cover what z is, good and ethical breeding, docking and cropping, raw feeding, rawhide, spay and neuters, e collars and training!

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[kevn]

I would like to point out that a Z factor dog does have the potential to be healthy and of sound temperament, even though they still should NOT be bred--just like anyone who gets a non-Z factor from a breeder who is not actively bettering the breed with extensive titling and health testing should not breed their dog even though it is not a Z factor. A lot goes in to breeding, and most dogs do not meet the criteria of "bettering the breed." Period.

ETA: I am not condoning the breeding or purchase of Z factored dogs; however I do believe that it is extraordinarily naive to treat Z factor like the ONLY concern when plenty of non Z factors die from DCM at early ages as well. Z should not be bred. Non-titled should not be bred. Non-health tested should not be bred. Animals coming from lines without titling or testing should not be bred.


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I was just re-reading this thread that I started. Thank you for pointing that out. Zoey, born in April, is Z-factor, as has been discussed. So far, she is the healthiest, smartest dog we've ever had. She is beautiful. I had her spayed on Tuesday.

 

[kevn]

I am relieved that I no longer seem like a troll.

 

[Drogon]

I am relieved that I no longer seem like a troll.

Sorry. I (and many others) just have very strong feelings about breeding Z-factored dogs

 

[kevn]

I understand.

 

[Blitzhunde]

- I have not gone through to read all six pages of the thread however, researchers at Michigan State University recently identified a mutation that is tied to Oculocutaneous Albinism in Doberman Pinschers. The mutation alters a gene that has been shown to cause a similar condition (OCA4) in humans. Every white Doberman that has been tested has two copies of this mutation, and every known carrier has one copy.

Since the first appearance of white dogs in the breed some 35 years ago, every dog descended from that original breeding has received a special AKC designation (Z list) if they are registered. As might be expected this far beyond the original event, the majority of these dogs do not carry the albinism mutation. In a random sampling of non-white Z list animals submitted to Vetgen for other testing, approximately 80% were free of this mutation.

 

[RugersMom2020]

I know all about this. Thank you for your responses. However, nobody seems to be reading my post in its entirely and answering questions I brought up, specifically: is the "Z" really an issue? Just because somebody says something it true, doesn't mean it is, without hard data to back up their assertions.

The AKC automatically puts Z if there is a history in bloodline. DOES NOT in fact mean ur dobe is a carrier and should not be bred. U need DNA test to determine if ur do be is a carrier. If urs is then u should indeed not breed.

 

[RugersMom2020]

I'm actually surprised on how many people are uneducated about this z factor. Obviously the AKC does not know without a DNA test of your dog if your dog is a carrier of the mutation. Do not discredit breeders with z factor. As a matter of fact I wonder if the AKC will rescind and fix that on the dogs pedigree if you DNA test and they are in fact not a carrier. Its rather unfair.

 

[RugersMom2020]

And as I continue this rant- because the Z is passed on to every litter on the AKC pedigree from the first albino noted, if you only bred dobes without it they'd all end up so inbred who knows after time if they'd even be able to breed. Moral of the story DNA and health test your dog before you breed. And if you aren't willing to do a little research before you listen to peoples "opinions" then you probably are not ready to breed. I think having a group of people to share ideas and experiences is great but this is a great example of researching things yourself as well.