embarkvet.com
Here is another useful explanation, for me at least:The easiest way to explain this is that the DNA is like a barcode. No matter how all those barcodes look, each one represents a different item. Once the Doberman became its own breed and they closed the book on other breeds, they got their own defining "bar code". The barcode of the Beauceron is different. Embark through it's DNA magic can see these differences and also magically tell you if it's a mix and what breeds and approximate percentages.
A Tail of Two Breeds: How Dog DNA Diverges Over Time
At Embark, we can identify unique genetic signatures of each breed and use them to tell the difference between closely related breeds.
I am about to get a Dobie puppy and my breeder is fanatical about genetics. Her research indicates that the goal is not specific new "traits" in and of themselves, but pretty much entirely around strengthening and broadening the genetic diversity of the Doberman breed before inbreeding makes it extinct. Breeder told me that the plan is to crossbreed in those other breeds and then breed them back out over some number of generations while hanging onto the added gene diversity (probably a few years of work I am guessing). No plans to change the breed in any material way aside from more genetic diversity. o time will tell but with some genetic studies in my background (waaay back), I find it hard to believe it won't have some impact on the breed that will be hard to predict. But man plans and God laughs. I suspect that I am not telling anyone anything new when I mention that the breed as a whole has one of the the highest COI's of mainstream breeds at about 42% with only a few near or above like 26% for Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers and as much as 37% for Polish Hounds, 58% for Bull Terriers, around 45% for some Collies (and who the heck has heard of a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever??), and the outlier is the Lundehund at almost 80%. The next well known mainstream breed with a "high" COI is the Great Dane with an average of about 9% (my last guy was a big ol' goofy GD, absent friends...Me too, @Ddski5 in re: "i haz questions?"
andgood idea to start a new thread dedicated to this project.
I too am very interested to learn "what exactly are they targeting as a trait, as a specific improvement to bring to the dobe breed?"
And how? What tools and methodology?
Genetics vs genomics?
I'm assuming there is something that speaks to health, specifically DCM, given how much attention its garnered over the years.
Comparing this FKC "Fix the Dobes" Plan to the now terminated DDP (that frankly to me looked like another attempt to justify hypertrope Bandoggery...)
And other debates (remember the squawking and clucking at the youtuber interview of Dr Sophie Liu on the Wade study) ...?
Speaking for myself here is a legit effort that at least allows this weird old fart in the peanut gallery to discuss ideas openly without the gatekeeping typical in purist show circles to shutdown the very mention of the elephant in the room.
One thing I find fascinating in tribal politics is how the various groups see themselves. Look up "suomi" as the key point of pride for the Finns national identity.
Its like the honey badger memes...on teh innertoobs.
). I found a study that said there are an estimated 70 (high risk) to 235 (long term risk) effectively unrelated genetic templates of the Doberman breed. My coming pup comes from a relatively estimated COI litter at 22%, so I am hopeful that he will be a long laster with fewer problems but will love him regardless.
I know, its pretty deep for me.
@web_creator Welcome!I am about to get a Dobie puppy and my breeder is fanatical about genetics. Her research indicates that the goal is not specific new "traits" in and of themselves, but pretty much entirely around strengthening and broadening the genetic diversity of the Doberman breed before inbreeding makes it extinct. Breeder told me that the plan is to crossbreed in those other breeds and then breed them back out over some number of generations while hanging onto the added gene diversity (probably a few years of work I am guessing). No plans to change the breed in any material way aside from more genetic diversity. o time will tell but with some genetic studies in my background (waaay back), I find it hard to believe it won't have some impact on the breed that will be hard to predict. But man plans and God laughs. I suspect that I am not telling anyone anything new when I mention that the breed as a whole has one of the the highest COI's of mainstream breeds at about 42% with only a few near or above like 26% for Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers and as much as 37% for Polish Hounds, 58% for Bull Terriers, around 45% for some Collies (and who the heck has heard of a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever??), and the outlier is the Lundehund at almost 80%. The next well known mainstream breed with a "high" COI is the Great Dane with an average of about 9% (my last guy was a big ol' goofy GD, absent friends...
Happy to help. <<Wade, C.M., Nuttall, R., & Liu, S. (2023). Comprehensive analysis of geographic and breed-purpose influences on genetic diversity and inherited disease risk in the Doberman dog breed. Canine Medicine and Genetics, 10(1): 1–17.>> Comprehensive analysis of geographic and breed-purpose influences on genetic diversity and inherited disease risk in the Doberman dog breed - PMC
. The pics are from one day and about four weeks. The nine week pic is the current profile pic...
All good stuff thanks esp for the "red dawn" link. The Wade, Nuttal, Liu study is especially usedul and set some heads spinning like the Exorcist "redrum!"Happy to help. <<Wade, C.M., Nuttall, R., & Liu, S. (2023). Comprehensive analysis of geographic and breed-purpose influences on genetic diversity and inherited disease risk in the Doberman dog breed. Canine Medicine and Genetics, 10(1): 1–17.>> Comprehensive analysis of geographic and breed-purpose influences on genetic diversity and inherited disease risk in the Doberman dog breed - PMC
A little from the Finnish Kennel club - Cross breeding
Following is one that shows a significant list of breeds and COI's. And while we are geeking out on alla this, the high numbers (and apparently more accurate ones but who knows who will wax religious on this) are genomic inbreeding (F_ROH), measured from actual homozygosity runs on the genome compared to Pedigree-based COI's, which only capture inbreeding accumulated from the pedigree horizon and miss the deep breed-founder bottleneck. But if you want to see the really ugly numbers, then: Actual Inbreeding of Purebred Dog Breeds
And now for a few pictures and happy to share going forward. I am new to this forum and you are a heavy poster and responder in many areas of my interest, so I might take the liberty of pinging on occasion
~~Jim
So apologies in advance and @JanS will advise if AITA here (like in reddit speke...btw another good source for dobe stuff but not as searchable as archives here- a gold mine.)
Great links, thank you - always gathering more info as we can!
This forum stays alive by discussions, post away!
I thought the retired thing would give me more time but now wonder how I ever had time to work??? But it will give me time to protection train my new pup (assuming he continues to grow and successfully gets through ongoing assessments over time, so far so good). What a great way to engage with my dog! I am pretty sure I have nailed down a trainer to help me (former trainer in the military and discussions have demonstrated a very good guy). Now I just gotta get the pup, nine days away...All good stuff thanks esp for the "red dawn" link. The Wade, Nuttal, Liu study is especially usedul and set some heads spinning like the Exorcist "redrum!"
when dobertoober guy interviewed Dr Liu, but the facts are the facts.
I try to follow smart people and if you google Dr Liu its very interesting, what she is up to, too.
Like to hear more from you and as you notice some of this is of recent interest- lots of VERY dobe smart folk here (imma just two byb dobe noob myself) so I try to pick brains to learn more.
Must restrain myself from geeking out at times.
So applogies if I overpost!
I think most of us asked ourselves that question. I see a rare few asking if we get bored but that's a hard no.
Protection train or bite sport?I thought the retired thing would give me more time but now wonder how I ever had time to work??? But it will give me time to protection train my new pup (assuming he continues to grow and successfully gets through ongoing assessments over time, so far so good). What a great way to engage with my dog! I am pretty sure I have nailed down a trainer to help me (former trainer in the military and discussions have demonstrated a very good guy). Now I just gotta get the pup, nine days away...
Thanks to all!
so feel free to PM someday...)
Bump on this as I was reading a bit more on Hovawarts and origin: they were created/improved by outcross of Leonburgers, GSDs and Newfi's.
www.vibraniumdobermans.com
Thats a pretty comprehensive list. I sometimes wonder about all the many dog info sites, lately and how much is copy and paste. But this one goes back to 2021 for a lot of content. Which is probly why so many competitors sprung up, writers stuck at home during covid?This came up in my memories and not some mixes I would do, except maybe with the RR.
l.facebook.com
,
The rescue greyhounds we see around here in socal sure are sweet and gentle souls. They are almost shy but when they get the zoomies, lookout! Its pure joy.
cowboystatedaily.com
