Ragnar and Freyja

[Rits]

So sorry you are struggling with time and balance. The family wanted another? Almost seemed like they wanted her more than you. Where are they? Getting after her is a given but taking part in the training, well that's part of the package of getting a cute puppy. It's a lifetime commitment. They aren't little and cute forever!

Stay away from the ecollar, imo. I'm not sure what you used it for but how can she know to turn it off if she doesn't understand the command given. Which seems more likely at her age. She's waay too young and needs more time and proofing before adding in such a firm correction. It is hard. But way worth it when they do the right thing because they want to please you and not because they are trying to turn off the correction. It's worth it when they aren't collar wise, too which they will become if we don't teach the right thing first and work our way up to proofing it in higher distracting areas. If she reacts so well on the prong, that would tell me a simple leash pop would be plenty correction for her to communicate your displeasure for failing a known command given.

It's hard alone to raise such an intelligent animal. I could not raise Ripley and Paige without the support of my husband. I hope the family helps out. It's not fair to you to be stretched so thin! and not fair to the dogs.

 

[Rits]

Has she had her last set of shots yet? I'm going to recommend a "family boot camp" and the family have to take turns in taking her to obedience class. Having a set day that you are expected to show up helps force you to get out and train! Might be what the fam needs?

 

[Kaiser2016]

The picture of her laying on top of Ragnar on the sofa is super cute and kinda funny, but then you mentioned this:

She has really terrorized Ragnar and dude will not put her in her place. Probably because initially we scrutinized him- we did not want him to hurt her and for her to be scared of him. Now, I think he thinks we will get on to him for correcting her. Gotta spend some extra time with him and build his confidence back up.

Since you mentioned her Doberteens starting, could placing herself on top of him be a bit of dominance? Maybe that warrants a correction from the people in order to show Ragnar that he is above her in the pack? Also, I read that in multi-dog households, it's important to reinforce any correction the main dog gives to the newcomer, so you could praise him anytime he appropriately corrects her.

I'm on board with Rits idea to have each kid take turns going to obedience class. Realistically, there are only so many hours in the day, so they need to help you out.

 

[Ravenbird]

@Ddski5, I do feel you here. It didn't work out for me like I thought it would either. Asha was bossing & bullying Reckless by the time she was 14 weeks old. They have had to be rotated or supervised ever since. I was all puffed up when I got Asha at 10 weeks prepared to defend her and make sure Reckless didn't knock her around or bite her ears blah blah blah. I was not prepared for Reckless taking the back seat and not putting her in her place. Now I had to try to correct a puppy (who not only had no idea what I was trying tell her, she didn't care). I didn't introduce the e-collar until she was 8 months, but the sole reason was to keep her from hitting Reckless. She just ran all over her any time they were off leash. If we were hiking she'd see Reckless find a bone and charge at her full out, knock her out of the way and take the bone. The only fun they had was if Reckless got the zoomies and they would do that, otherwise R. hated her company but was too polite to give Asha a what-for. I got to where I'd rather hike alone with Asha, because she was so mean to R. & I had to use the e-collar carefully - it was new to me, new to her & I didn't want to make any mistakes. And worse than that, R. isn't my dog, so I felt really responsible for making her perfect life miserable by bringing in this crazy puppy.

Since you mentioned her Doberteens starting, could placing herself on top of him be a bit of dominance? Maybe that warrants a correction from the people in order to show Ragnar that he is above her in the pack? Also, I read that in multi-dog households, it's important to reinforce any correction the main dog gives to the newcomer, so you could praise him anytime he appropriately corrects her.

^^^THIS. This is dominance. Cute as can be, but shouldn't be allowed since Ragnar is already not holding his own. Another thing I was not prepared to see, Asha always wanting on top during play, always. Her head, her feet or her whole body HAD to be over Reckless. It's very intimidating posturing, and not by accident. Even with me, relaxing for a nap while I read in the afternoon, Asha will try to put her feet on me. If I push her feet off, she pulls them back and slaps them on top of my hand again - what was it called, Slap Jack? that we played as kids? If she does it more than once I use a sharp correction and don't let her be close. If I don't, she will persist on the upper hand position. I don't think Freyja is this hard, but you know this breed will take a mile if you allow an inch, especially at this age. Winning dominance over Ragnar is a big deal and I wouldn't take it lightly. Probably too late now, but I wouldn't even allow her on the furniture until she learned it was an earned privilege. Reckless got a place on the couch after 5 years of a bed on the floor, just to physically put her above Asha. Asha is never allowed on the furniture, with the exception of an afternoon nap on my bed with me if I want to lie down to read and that didn't happen until she was about a year old.

You are a good trainer and you'll need some co-operation with the family to help out. I know you love this new pup so don't let it overwhelm you! I didn't mean to make this post about me & Asha, but wanted you to know you aren't alone. I was totally overwhelmed by my pup more than once or twice, and I feel sure a lot of things would have been easier if I lived alone and had not had to work around living with another dog. But it has all worked out & we are all better for it.

 

[C908]

I figured it was going to be difficult with two and to be honest....it is.

I thought I was going to have more initiative from the household to help in training but that has not come through the way I anticipated.

Freyja is well into DoberShark and just hit her Doberteens. The sweet little puppy honeymoon is OVER. I can tell because when I come home from work she is everywhere getting into everything. She has really terrorized Ragnar and dude will not put her in her place. Probably because initially we scrutinized him- we did not want him to hurt her and for her to be scared of him. Now, I think he thinks we will get on to him for correcting her. Gotta spend some extra time with him and build his confidence back up.

I recently put my foot and had a family meeting. Family has to be more firm and correct her and not just let things slide because she is a puppy. She can be a terror and if this continues, it is not gonna be fun.

She is definitely easier to train than Ragnar was- she does not pull on the flat collar too bad and is highly sensitive to the prong. Just putting the prong on causes immediate loose leash walking and I don’t have to call heel, she does it automatically.

Just sooo hard to find the time to spend with them individually.....Freyja needs it more but Ragnar is at the window looking out. I have gotten to the point in which she will heel on left and Ragnar will heel on right while walking. Still working on solidifying on command sit, down, place, etc... I think she knows what they are but not quite for sure if she wants to listen fully just yet.

I know, I know....but I had to try out the ECollar. Put it on snug and she had ZERO reaction to it- none whatsoever. Moved it up to 30 and she just sat there looking at me. Put it on Ragnar and he turns on a dime. I don’t know, must not have connected all the way with her skin. Well, not going to try that again just yet. I really don’t want to ruin that tool.

I need to do more training and work with her, just not enough hours.

Need to get her on the outside of a dog park soon to start acclimating her to other dogs.


In a long stay down the driveway.
View attachment 114931


She has to be touching him when they are napping.
View attachment 114932

I can relate to what your dealing with, hang in there it will get better. Remember how hard it was with Ragner and then he finally somewhat mellowed out. In another year and a half Freyja will start to mellow and Ragner will be even more mellow. I would tell you Freyja has enough size that you can let the two of them go at it. They will play hard and Ragner will be in control if you will let him.The first time we watched two dobermans play it was kind of scary. Thats just how they are and you will just have to trust Ragner. What I hate are bad weather days when they cant be outside burning energy. It is understandable why so many young dobermans are given up. They are a lot to handle and some owners reach a point they can't deal with it. Because of our age we will probably not have another dobie puppy. Kind of a sad thought but we have to be realistic.

 

[Tropicalbri's]

Sorry for my laughter but I fully understand.
It was a destiny to be fulfilled.

Legend is relentless on Bacall but she allows it only on HER terms. When she has had enough those hammer paws come down on his head and she displays those big, beautiful white teeth of hers.
Bacall steals Legend’s toys and will give him a nasty lip curling growl if he tries to get them back. I have to step in and correct her. As a result no toys are left around. He can only play with them when Bacall isn’t around.

Bacall is head bitch, always has been and always will be.
Legend comes back at her when playing so I know the day will come when Legend will challenge her and Bacall will reinforce her title.

It is very difficult trying to balance playtime, training and exercise by yourself but you will get there.

I will say if Legend tried to crawl up on Bacall like Freyja did to Ragnar, the yelping would begin and sparks would fly. I feel sure it would be a one time fluke on Legend’s part.

Legend has learned to climb on the couch but Bacall promptly grabs him by his neck and pulls him off. There are just some things she is not willing to share.

Make your family get with the training program, it’s very important for them to be involved in all aspects of the puppy’s growth to adulthood.

Good luck!!
I do feel your angst.

 

[Ddski5]

I woke this morn with a plan and tried it out immediately with Freyja. It worked very well so we are having a mandatory family training session today once the girls get back from New Orleans.

I started searching around and may have found a solution....

The local AKC chapter offers puppy, basic, advanced, rally, etc....The same one I did advanced obedience class with Ragnar a couple years ago.

I will make one of the family go with me and we can take both. One with Freyja in basic and one with Ragnar in advanced.

Only issue with this is, its from Jan-Feb in a large outside parking lot. Not quite for sure the Dobermans would listen and easy to control when it’s cold out there?.?.?

 

[JanS]

Trust me, we went through a phase like that with these two too and Phoebe's teenage phase started way earlier than the 7 month normal age. If it's any consolation, she's going to be 7 months in a few days and she's acting much more adult now, so she's just ahead of the curve (KOW).
I've never experienced the same with any of our other Doberman combos so I think these pups are really smart and challenging. It doesn't help that there is absolutely no in person training going on around here so we're sort of on our own.

The local AKC chapter offers puppy, basic, advanced, rally, etc....The same one I did advanced obedience class with Ragnar a couple years ago.

I will make one of the family go with me and we can take both. One with Freyja in basic and one with Ragnar in advanced.

Wow you're lucky there so that should help a lot. I wouldn't worry about the parking lot since they'll keep themselves warm just going through the commands and learn to listen regardless of the situation. Around here I wouldn't do it since it's way too cold but it can't be that bad there?

 

[Rits]

@ the outside training: They'll be fine. If you have to, toss a coat on them, but really they keep warm when you are moving a lot during training. That sounds like it'll be AWESOME for you guys! Ragnar, Freyja, the family. Everyone!

Heads up, they most likely won't approve a prong since prongs aren't allowed on akc grounds anyways I imagine an akc club will follow the same. Stick with it. Take what you can and leave the rest. Just because they don't use them doesn't mean there isn't anything valuable to gain from the class or that you can't use one outside the class when needed and wean off of it as she's more trained. There won't be a perfect trainer. Everyone has something to offer, even if it's just the experience and exposure of training with other dogs.

I'm excited for you guys!

 

[LifeofRubie]

I've been to LA in December. It was not cold.

I tease. They'll be fine! Especially if they're working!

 

[Tropicalbri's]

The Dobermans will probably handle the cold far better than the humans.

I know when we did winter training at the PAL it was right on the waterfront and that wind coming off the water made my eyes tear up.
I was so bundled up I could barely move. The dobes were loving it and it seemed to make them focus more on the training.
Coming home they immediately went to sleep so it helped burn up that endless energy.

I can’t physically handle cold without some pretty significant side effects so...
I can certainly say the twins benefited far more from training in cold than I did.

As some of you laugh with me complaining about 50-60 degree weather remember it is a wet cold (72-85% humidity) that goes straight through you unlike the drier cold that’s easier to handle.
@JanS can tell you when she was in Ga during her job training, 50 degrees in the South feels far more cold than 20 degrees up north because of the humidity.

Louisiana is a very humid state so I feel for you getting out there but it will be well worth it.

Good luck with the training and I hope your girls enjoy it.

 

[Ddski5]

Yes, it’s a wet cold down here, not like when I was in Germany. It also will be decent during the day but drop 30dgs in 3hrs not giving you time to acclimate.

I told the idgets- they agreed to the deal... they are in, I don’t care if only young Tristen goes, Freyja needs some exposure.

 

[Ravenbird]

Only issue with this is, its from Jan-Feb in a large outside parking lot. Not quite for sure the Dobermans would listen and easy to control when it’s cold out there?.?.?

I think this is an excellent idea! Bundle up so you stay warm & if the dogs stay busy they should be fine. My puppy class was last winter & the instructor had us bring a mat for the puppy to lay down on when we were having discussion.

Also the family member who goes with Freyja will be getting instruction from a teacher, not from Dad or Hubby. It shouldn't be an issue, but I think it is a lot of times. My mom was the best and most popular piano teacher within miles, but when I was 10 or 11 she had to send me to another piano teacher because I had an attitude toward her that I would never express to a teacher or elder. Then later in life I worked for my significant other and found myself resenting being told what to do, in a different way than I ever had with just a boss. Admitting here it was ME & MY problem, not the loved one who was giving orders or instructions. I think going to AKC classes is the best solution for everyone, especially Freyja! As @Rits said, the instructor you get may or may not be permissive with collars or methods, but just the exposure & discipline of a class will change a puppy immensely in 6 or 8 weeks.

 

[LifeofRubie]

Also the family member who goes with Freyja will be getting instruction from a teacher, not from Dad or Hubby. It shouldn't be an issue, but I think it is a lot of times. .

This is a GREAT point! We have someone in our Barn Hunt class who has competed to the highest levels with one dog but has just started training her (1 yr old) puppy and her niece is in class with us with her (1.5yr old) puppy. The poor niece has TWO instructors trying to tell her what to do I can tell she's constantly worrying about doing right by both and gets flustered very quickly.

 

[Ddski5]

Training starts this coming Thursday @1900 and both Ragnar and Freyja are going. If I have to put a prong collar on one of my daughters or wife to drag their ass along then so be it!

They all went out of town and left me with the Dobermans so I chopped up some hot dogs and went to the fields to get a start for this week.

This is the monsters in the truck waiting as I go into the store. Have to give both credit, they have really good truck manners.



Training went well at the fields. Worked both of them individually and then both together. Then freed them and let them run crazy for a while. Ragnar works so well offleash with an ECollar. Freyja is coming along but needs that repetitive instruction.

Going to be interesting on how training takes at AKC. I am still not fully 100% on who I will be with the first day? Ragnar?? because he has that scary intimidating appearance and am worried that my other family members cannot handle him as well as I. I also don’t want a bad first day as others there may get the wrong impression is wife/girls have a difficult time with him.

Freyja?? because it’s her first time in a setting like that- chaos amongst 10 other dogs and this may well be a very impressionable experience for her?

Both classes are at 1900. What I may do is take both but bring Ragnar out at first with my daughter/wife tagging along and get him warmed to the environment and others warmed to him. Have Freyja on the outskirts and then just ease her into her basic class.

I am going to make sure that we go extra early to get them settled and use to the new surrounding.

 

[C908]

Good luck with everything , Freyja's ears look really good. Are you through posting already ? Mercy will be 8 months Jan 12th and I feel like I still have a ways to go.

 

[LifeofRubie]

Can you do the first half of class with Ragnar to make sure he stays in line with what he already knows and then go with Freyja for the second half to make sure the humans are following directions?

I think you're overthinking too much again either way, the instructor is teaching the HUMANS, not the dog. Even if your family knows what to do with Ragnar, it might be completely different for Freyja

 

[Ravenbird]

Can you do the first half of class with Ragnar to make sure he stays in line with what he already knows and then go with Freyja for the second half to make sure the humans are following directions?

I think you're overthinking too much again either way, the instructor is teaching the HUMANS, not the dog. Even if your family knows what to do with Ragnar, it might be completely different for Freyja

Agree with this for the most part, except I wouldn't switch humans in the lessons. Let the teacher teach, this isn't for dad to manage the wife and girls or the dogs. Since this is a family thing, maybe the first time all 4 could go, two people watching the other two. Is this two classes at the same time in different areas with different instructors & goals? Surely not mixing older advanced dogs with a puppy class? If you switch handlers half way, how do you know what Frejays instructor just talked about doing/not doing and how can you expect the 2nd handler to pick up where you just left off with Ragnar? Even if this is one class with one teacher I still think each dog should have one handler throughout. What is the class, basic obedience, puppy, conformation?

 

[Ddski5]

Will be in a very large parking lot with sections separated by small medians.

In each session is a group training:
Puppy
Basic obedience
Advanced obedience
Rally

Yes- different classes, different instructors, different goals.

Freyja will be in basic obedience and Ragnar will be in advanced obedience. Ragnar has finished this advanced obedience class last year, I just wanted him to participate and freshen up his commands.

I think I am over thinking it again....
We will get there early and walk the two around and they will become more at ease with the other dogs/surroundings.

Good idea to take more than one fam though- that way they can all experience and discuss.

 

[Ddski5]

Are you through posting already ?

I am very tempted. Freyja’s ears are much thinner than Ragnar’s thick ass ears. Hahaha...come to think of it, everything with Ragnar was much harder.

Yes Freyja’s ears are really thin so I expect to be finished pretty soon. She is a little over 5months and I could prob pull them but she is still teething. What is one more month?? No, I will do the deed and make sure- I put them back in post today.

Gonna be interesting though, for some reason her ears are not completely symmetrical like Ragnar’s. We will see.