Judith
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Why not look in the UK especially if you are moving to Germany we have some excellent breeders here.
http://www.amazondobes.com/
http://www.amazondobes.com/
Question to anyone who has ever bought or bred a dog.
- Thread starter Ataro
- Start date
Ataro
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From the UK breeders I've seen (I don't know if there's another listing, I've only seen the ones listed on dobermann-review.com), I like the structure but I'd prefer a dog with a bit more substance. I've found the Dobes I like the most tend to come from Belgium/France, but most of the breeders listed there no longer breed and so I've only been able to get in contact with Ramonburg's and Of Devil Inside, so my second choice is Eastern Europe, but it's also been hard to find exactly what I'm looking for (they like the blocky look over there), there just seems to be more breeders there to sift through in the first place.
This is pretty much what my dream Dobe looks like:
Ramonburg's Hiranya
Denissov43
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Never heard of Ramonsburg or Centipede.... Hunnoterra is one I know of and I like his one male Big Boss quite alot! Nice looking dog on every level and nice pedigree.
I am not sure what Wlodimeirz and Anna (DLP) are breeding right now, but their bitch Coppola has a fabulous pedigree with a low COI and when coupled well with another male like the litter we got out of Leo Vom Markischenland, it was outstanding.. their next litter with Obi Grand Vinko, I did not like the COI of that litter, but they turned out beautiful of course, but I worry about their DCM issue potential.
King of Darkness is not french sorry, I was thinking of another breeder with a similar name.... KOD is a great breeder and Andrea Valki, is her name, and I like her very much, she is also a photographer and very commited to the breed! outstanding person she is also on my facebook group and a regular and I like her alot...
Tira Vento has the litter sister to DLP's Coppola and she is also a very great bitch, Mexicana.... anything out of her with a good low COI male would be great... She does have great english but she shows alot and is on the circuit alot and could not get back to me with any real rapidity because of it and I remember her emails to be short and without much input, I could have construed that as an english issue... it could have been that her time was just limited and she is contacted alot for her puppies. She was very nice indeed...
Denissov43
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Int.Ch. Supetas Ozzy Ozzborne? seen him? beautiful dog and a terrific kennel in the UK... nice people too!
http://www.supetadobermanns.webeden.co.uk/#/puppieslitters/4546717050
http://www.supetadobermanns.webeden.co.uk/
http://www.supetadobermanns.webeden.co.uk/#/puppieslitters/4546717050
http://www.supetadobermanns.webeden.co.uk/
Judith
Hot Topics Subscriber
it is helpful to look at other websites to see what they offer
http://www.nearcticdobermanns.com/
http://www.aritaur.co.uk/ show and work
http://www.luna-scura.com/ show /work
http://www.nearcticdobermanns.com/
http://www.aritaur.co.uk/ show and work
http://www.luna-scura.com/ show /work
Ataro
Notable member
Thanks for the tip on the UK kennel, I have actually already seen Supeta's site - they have nice males but I don't like their females much except perhaps one. I want a female puppy, so I'm taking into account particularly how the bitches in the line look.
DLP are planning to breed Imax iz Padoku with Leo von Märkischen Land but to be honest, I don't like the bitch much at all... Coppola is much nicer. Tira Vento is also planning a litter with Leo and Tira Vento Berechovka, she's sort of so-so. I really do hope that the Ramonburg litter will be an outcross and with a nice sire (they're planning on breeding Hiranya, who I've posted above), but they said they still haven't decided on the sire and will get back to me with details a bit later. KOD's litter will be KOD Paradise most likely with Arrow van het Wantij... I'm not really sure how much I like this litter, and Andrea told me that there are two people who have been waiting on females from Paradise for a while, so I don't even know if I can be guaranteed a female from that litter anyway. And I also have seen that DCM is in the third generation of DLP and Centipede, so I'm kind of edgy about that.
My main issue with Hunnoterra is that they dock dogs' tails at an early age, and I'm looking to buy a dog with a tail of show quality. I honestly don't think it's possible to tell a show quality from pet quality puppy at one week old or less... so, I'm not entirely convinced, and secondly they have no information up on their site or anywhere about the female they intend to mate (Shamaya del Mediano x Bull di Casa Giardino).
Ataro
Notable member
Thanks Judith, I've already looked at the last two breeders' sites, and to be honest they're not the type (appearance) that I'm looking for. The male dogs look great - some perfect even, but I don't really like the females (this seems to be a recurring issue!). I like a solid built female like Hiranya pictured above, but at the same time smooth and not blocky (which appears to be is all the rage in eastern Europe these days). I guess I'm really picky?
Judith
Hot Topics Subscriber
Just letting you see the websites, quite open and nothing hidden and all health tests done which is how it should be, if I were you be careful going for a heavyweight , Bella is a big built girl and is a real nightmare trying to keep her weight down, it bothers me everyday :shakinghead:
, and every time I feed her 
, and with all the exercise she gets she does not lose any weight , it is a real headache to me , but still she carries too much weight , I would much prefer her to be a lighter dog.
, and every time I feed her , and with all the exercise she gets she does not lose any weight , it is a real headache to me , but still she carries too much weight , I would much prefer her to be a lighter dog.
Katja Henriksen
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I agree there is a difference in the built, but in some cases it also has to do with how much weight are on the dogs how heavy they look.
Ataro
Notable member
Judith Whelan I do appreciate websites like that that are open - they seem to be a rarity! And by the way I've always thought Bella was a gorgeous girl 
. With weight sometimes though, it depends on the dog, like even apart from the times Ashra has had worms, she's always been a nightmare to keep weight on. I feel as though I'm going to be seeing that horrible protruding hip bone for the rest of my life.
Katja Henriksen What I'm particular about with the build is the uptuck... I don't like an excessive or sharp uptuck, and (sorry to all the Americans out there) I do not like the 'swan neck' at all! It's not that I'm looking for a female that's going to get to 50kg or anything like that, but I would like one in the normal FCI weight range that looks compactly solid as Hiranya above. I didn't think her look was particularly heavy?
. With weight sometimes though, it depends on the dog, like even apart from the times Ashra has had worms, she's always been a nightmare to keep weight on. I feel as though I'm going to be seeing that horrible protruding hip bone for the rest of my life.Katja Henriksen What I'm particular about with the build is the uptuck... I don't like an excessive or sharp uptuck, and (sorry to all the Americans out there) I do not like the 'swan neck' at all! It's not that I'm looking for a female that's going to get to 50kg or anything like that, but I would like one in the normal FCI weight range that looks compactly solid as Hiranya above. I didn't think her look was particularly heavy?
Denissov43
Notable member
Judith Whelan I do appreciate websites like that that are open - they seem to be a rarity! And by the way I've always thought Bella was a gorgeous girl
Katja Henriksen What I'm particular about with the build is the uptuck... I don't like an excessive or sharp uptuck, and (sorry to all the Americans out there) I do not like the 'swan neck' at all! It's not that I'm looking for a female that's going to get to 50kg or anything like that, but I would like one in the normal FCI weight range that looks compactly solid as Hiranya above. I didn't think her look was particularly heavy?
My observation of Hiranya is that she is overly angulated in the rear and she drops down in her rear quarters and I do not like that look. It looks weak in the hips to me or weak in the back.... she has a gorgeous head and build and it could be the photo, but then again it could be how she really is...
I am fond of Bella too.. she and My Gemma are both thick girls and have an issue with weight... they can pack it on easily and also have false pregnancies which lend them the loose mammaries and that hangs down after a first heat and is always there. So there is NO up tuck on them... they have it, but you will never see it because of their 'titties'... they are hangy downies!
I will have a look at Tira Vento's bitch, but if I were you, I would be comparing pedigrees and doing COI evaluations on the breedings to see how high or low those COI's are and who are the line breedings really on if you go back 10 generations and not just 3-5 like you usually see with most pedigree's. You can download your own pedigree research software and Doberman Review's forum has a user named "Valencia" who has just such a software program he gives away for free so that people who are buying puppies can do the due diligence themselves and choose a litter based on a low COI and a genetically diverse pedigree and phenotype that you want to see in your puppy... its a great way to do the research its how I ended up getting My puppy from DLP and how Cathy Niewoudt who has the litter sister to my male ended up getting her puppy from them too. Not to say that every litter that DLP does would be one I would say YES to buying but its how we both ended up choosing the kennel, litter and pedigree's we purchased. She is very happy with her puppy and so am I....
Good luck to ya! the search is on and you are clearly doing your homework and taking it really seriously! Good on ya mate!
Denissov43
Notable member
Have you looked at a kennel by the name of "Vaydee" and they have a Dog named Vaydee's Jungle beat' and his progeny are quite nice....
shown here on facebook. Nice family with a small kennel and very nice dogs, well cared for and I almost bought a male puppy shown here in this set of photos... but he had an injured elbow just before he was about to ship and I was afraid to buy him so I cancelled... but otherwise I wish I had bought him... he is the number 15- 20 of of these photos... he would be 2.5 years old now...
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.115598641882557.19169.100002972663159&type=1
shown here on facebook. Nice family with a small kennel and very nice dogs, well cared for and I almost bought a male puppy shown here in this set of photos... but he had an injured elbow just before he was about to ship and I was afraid to buy him so I cancelled... but otherwise I wish I had bought him... he is the number 15- 20 of of these photos... he would be 2.5 years old now...
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.115598641882557.19169.100002972663159&type=1
Ataro
Notable member
I've actually looked through every kennel within Western Europe that is listed on the dobermann-review.com website (I've actually got a post on this and about which kennels I contacted called "Getting a Euro puppy") and I have seen Vaydee, but again, I don't like their females. Thanks for the tips Denissov43, but most of them have been regarding getting a male puppy and I am getting another female (no changing my mind on that one).
I have been looking at the COI and pedigrees as well of course, actually there's a website that does the calculation up to 10 generations so you don't have to download any software: http://www.czerwonytrop.com/inb/index.php?full=ok&lng=en
I have been looking at the COI and pedigrees as well of course, actually there's a website that does the calculation up to 10 generations so you don't have to download any software: http://www.czerwonytrop.com/inb/index.php?full=ok&lng=en
Katja Henriksen
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That is what I mean. The uptuck is more pronounced on the slim dogs. My girls, especially Bailey, has a lot of uptuck, but I also keep my dogs quite lean. Most show dogs are kept with more meat on them, and the waist/uptuck is usually where they gain weight first.
I have noticed this on a few dogs as well. Hiranya is not the worst I have seen. I am not a fan of the kneeling look either. She is a gorgeous girl apart from that though.
Ataro
Notable member
Re: the kneeling I think it's also partly due to the way the picture was taken, here's a better shot on a flatter surface, but I didn't like the weird light source so I posted the other one. Here it is:
Katja Henriksen - what I meant by a sharp uptuck though was lacking that skin flap as seen in the photo above, dogs with little of it have a very square sharp looking uptuck, which I don't like.
I'm not sure I read it correctly, were you saying that Hiranya is meaty?
Katja Henriksen - what I meant by a sharp uptuck though was lacking that skin flap as seen in the photo above, dogs with little of it have a very square sharp looking uptuck, which I don't like.
I'm not sure I read it correctly, were you saying that Hiranya is meaty?
Katja Henriksen
Forum Sponsor
That is a better picture.
I see what you mean about the uptuck.When I say meaty, I don't mean it in a bad way. It is not a criticism, but just a fact that the dogs that are shown are kept at a certain body weight, probably because they show themselves better that way.
Ataro
Notable member
I'm just going to have a miniature rant here so don't mind me. I received this phrase in an email this morning, after asking a particular breeder about testing they do in regards to DCM:
"DCM is the actual condition of health at the moment, it isn't an illness. My first doberman died at 7 years and the veterinary doctor didn't state that's what happened."
It's people like this who should NOT be breeding, let alone near the Doberman(n) breed. Argh, I just had the inclination to go into a rage at her just then, but I stopped myself realizing that ignorance such as this is almost incurable. There are so many breeders out there who work very hard doing all possible testing and taking precautions to try to improve the breed and make it healthier.
And then you get 'breeders' such as this, who do almost no testing, know nothing about health and probably not much about anything else, flooding the markets. In my opinion this is even worse than a backyard breeder. People are paying top dollar expecting to get quality dogs, and they end up with this shit? I can't even begin to describe how mad this makes me.
"DCM is the actual condition of health at the moment, it isn't an illness. My first doberman died at 7 years and the veterinary doctor didn't state that's what happened."
It's people like this who should NOT be breeding, let alone near the Doberman(n) breed. Argh, I just had the inclination to go into a rage at her just then, but I stopped myself realizing that ignorance such as this is almost incurable. There are so many breeders out there who work very hard doing all possible testing and taking precautions to try to improve the breed and make it healthier.
And then you get 'breeders' such as this, who do almost no testing, know nothing about health and probably not much about anything else, flooding the markets. In my opinion this is even worse than a backyard breeder. People are paying top dollar expecting to get quality dogs, and they end up with this shit? I can't even begin to describe how mad this makes me.
So true!
^^^^^^Love the maths
Hiya, just wondering whether it might be worth taking a step back and evaluating what chances you have of finding your perfect bitch(as a pup) from a perfect breeder via emails.
Been there, done that, and when I had the opportunity to take a pick of litter from a very well regarded breeder, despite all my research I took the one which looked the dumbest of them all
What I'm getting at is that despite preferences of what our ideal dogs should be, there should be an element of "feeling" towards picking your pup - it's not the same as picking out a highly expensive diamond after all...they're going to be our buddies first and foremost
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