Form vs Function in the working dog

[BGpa]

Thank you for saying this.

I know so many focus on show breeders and thinking its all for fashion. Its not though. The standard for every breed is written in detail for a reason. It is what makes our breeds, our breed! I never understood all the hate or criticism for show breeders while putting zero pressure on working breeders, to practically putting working breeders up on a pedestal while they completely ignore the standard! Working breeders like that are just as guilty for this divide between show and work. Did you know the standard also covers the bite and how many teeth they must have? That seems important for a working dog that a working breeder maybe wants to pay attention to? At least some working breeders are taking part in UDC so there is effort. Effort in wanting to learn, effort in wanting to do better in producing dogs bred to the standard not only in working ability but also structure. The standard also doesn't just touch on structure, but temperament too.

These to me are all important features in a working breed bred to literally live alongside and protect man. Because while you may not care for one, or two things, then the list continues to grow of what you are willing to let slide while focusing on one aspect of the doberman to the point we have something that structurally looks vastly different than the other besides having the same paint job. A person may not care now, but once you educate yourself on the standard, these differences absolutely will scream out to you.

On the flip side, I see more and more breeders, especially of my generation (millennial) wanting those ROMs, wanting to do more with their dobermans to prove they are truly a confident, fearless, obedient, and versatile breed. The tides are shifting.

Thanks @Rits on the observation about younger generation wanting to do it all, with the breeds that can do it all.

I've been wondering as from time to time one reads about younger women especially taking on big goals in IGP, etc or other highly specialized jobs in the career steps to get to the peak. So you go girl (woman)!

What I can personally "see" is just limited to what I read on line and thats anecdotal, of course...but that also looks like anyone who really wants to understand dobe world, its highly valuable to go in person, get business cards from those doing it, and then followup.

I'm so envious and wondering where do I get my "do over card" or another lifetime...

Just mho but its a YUGE good thing you do and some of us are cheering heartily from the peanut gallery. Plus thanks again for educating us noobs and lurkers here.

Looks to me like UDC annual event is happening in your neck of the woods in 2027, amiright?

 

[Rits]

When I open these conversations up I am not saying ALL or EVERY. I simply state what I'm seeing. I'm seeing that the more a dog is bred for show, the less likely it is to be a top athlete of any sport. Again, refer to the photos on page 1. I'm referring to all working breeds. And I'm not saying ALL or EVERY dog.

I know you aren't and that was why I didn't quote you directly. Rather, I've seen somewhat similar messages thrown around for a number of years, all over the internet where people tend to crap on show breeders but raise up working breeders but both sides are honestly contributing to this divide! and it made me think of that enough that I wanted to address it here since it seemed related. Sorry that you felt targeted, that wasn't my intention!

If you have a structurally perfect Doberman titled as a GCH, but that has little drive, no boldness in the face of adversity, and literally bolts and runs away at gunfire, then yes, it literally IS a beauty contest and the dog will make a fine house pet and stud dog for the next generation of show dogs.

Yes, I would agree but unlike with working lines where you can see the dogs aren't bred to the standard on image alone, the show lines however you cannot prove that they don't have drive etc. just on name or picture alone without physically seeing them in person, or a video at least, at a performance event, or training, or with a decoy etc. The lack of titles does not mean they have no drive or are chickens. I certainly wish more breeders would take the time to train and title their dogs to PROVE they do have those things. But even then, there are not really a whole lot of options for proving they are bold on title only; the WAE's are sadly hard to come by but seem to be getting better. I believe there are only 3 judges? IGP/bitesports - thats an entire lifestyle that consumes you, financially and physically. Its not for everyone. Especially for the older generation breeders and breeders with family/kids. Theres not enough time in the day! Gawd, Trendy will be 3 in Nov and she's been training since she was a puppy and is just now going for her BH. Being new to the sport and missing so many club days due to confo shows, its taking us much longer to get to trial ready. A working breeder would have this done by the age of 1-2 lol. Now add 2-3 other dogs, and kids? Its really no wonder why we don't see more showline breeders doing bitesports. They would have to rely on their puppy homes and sadly no one is going to go to a showline for even a club level dog.

The more I navigate around the dog sport world though, the more I am beginning to run into different dogs, from showlines but different lines, training for bitesports... and the more I begin to wonder "How many more showlines could also do this??" That, if in the right hands, could at least achieve their IGP1? The problem is, these dogs will never be taken on the field to be realized. They'll be out on the agility course, sleeping on the couch with an active family, or doing dock diving and fast cat on the weekends. Puppy homes that really only need a club level doberman will still continue to go to the working breeder with an IGP3 while that spicy showline puppy is placed in a home to chase a plastic bag but is ready to address a threat on those night walks outside the hotel later that night (speaking from experience).

Trust me, as I look for stud dogs for Trendy, knowing that I want to focus on both conformation and working ability, nothing drives me more insane than the lack of any sort of titles. Even then a bunch of titles tells me nothing about their boldness and confidence. At least with working lines I can easily see what I'd lose for conformation.

I'm seeing that the more a dog is bred for show, the less likely it is to be a top athlete of any sport.

Can I share the other side of that that I see that I think is contributing towards this observation? Speaking as a relatively new, lesser known breeder, I see puppy homes looking for those top sport puppies, but don't want to go to the smaller breeder and trust they'll be matched with a sport puppy because it's "too risky". They want to go to the big name breeder that has a 3+ year waitlist. Because that big name breeder also has numerous homes that put tons of sport titles, high end too, on their breeding and pet dogs! So only one, maybe three breeders amass all those homes, while the smaller breeder struggles to do it alone. Breeders can't succeed alone. They heavily rely on the help of their homes alongside them!!! Its hard to prove the ability of your lines if there aren't homes interested anymore. That and as @Nordika said, entries are down across the board. Prices continue to rise while our paychecks simply aren't keeping up.

The Olympic athletes were never judged on anything except their athletic abilities and pretty didn't make them any points on their routine.

Correct but it doesn't mean the Jeopardy contestants or Olympic athletes couldn't also be (and weren't) beautiful while being smart and/or athletic. So why not both?

Sorry for my rambling and I hope it came across as a positive and open conversation...