Question to anyone who has ever bought or bred a dog.
- Thread starter Ataro
- Start date
ariegel
Active Member
I haven't bought a dog from Europe, but when I started to look for a breeder for my first dobe I was told that a good breeder should ask me just as many questions as I ask them. It took me a while to find a breeder that I was comfortable with. I would not feel like you are being high maintenance you want to make sure you are getting a sound dog. Maybe ask price after you find a breeder that will answer your questions about health. It would make me think that they have something to hide if they didn't want to answer my questions, but maybe I'm just high maintenance too.
I've only known a few breeders but this is the one thing that I think makes some a bit wary and closed mouthed until they know you are a trustworthy buyer and not someone looking to start some trouble. I think any breeder should answered any of your questions, but I know there were times when I felt like I was the one on trial here!
But when I turn it around and make ME the breeder with my precious pups for sale, it's a different story. I don't know you from Adam and I am feeling a bit Motherly towards my pups and who they go too. I think weeding out the unwanted buyers is a troubling and difficult task and when you've done it for a very long time you might get a bit rude sounding. 
And just like the buyer asking questions who might come off sounded 'gruff', so might the seller. Just be honest and be yourself, ask your questions (you have every right) and if your gut tells you NO, move on. One will click with you one day! 
Ataro
Notable member
The "kennel" I was referring to doesn't import or anything - the bitches are all based within the country as far as I understand - but they personally don't have much to do with "their" dogs. I think though, the importer woman I spoke to definitely classifies as broker... after I pointed out to her that she had the price on her website she never got back to me.
Ataro
Notable member
I've only known a few breeders but this is the one thing that I think makes some a bit wary and closed mouthed until they know you are a trustworthy buyer and not someone looking to start some trouble. I think any breeder should answered any of your questions, but I know there were times when I felt like I was the one on trial here!
I definitely agree with you there, what bothers me though is that there are hardly any asking questions. At least if they asked me questions THEN decided to be rude and ignore me, I'd understand I don't fit their criteria and that's fine I'll move on. But from the get go? Yeah, my gut is telling me no.
Mmmm....that does seem weird and I would probably be feeling the same as you. ASK me something. Lets TALK. Are they men? lol
Well, maybe not! LOL!
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
Women I would hope would be more nurturing - we are the mothers of the world. But regardless they should carry on a respectible converstation with you or how can they learn anything about you???? I do hear this about some breeders here in the US too so it is not just a Euro thing.
Ataro
Notable member
A little doubt on my side - Dobs4ever, and any one else who breeds or has bred, I have a question: what is the earliest age at which you can tell the quality of a puppy? I've gotten a few emails back saying that they could give me a natural show quality puppy by reservation. Seeing as tails are usually docked at an early age, is this even feasible?
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
I don't know how they do it in other countries - the standard recommended age here is 8 weeks - what you see at 8 weeks is what you should see at maturity. At 8 weeks the angulation should be correct - the head planes, all of it should be the closest it would be at that age. Then since I keep mine anyway I like to watch them til 10 to 12 weeks for the best show prospect - Some fall apart so badly they don't come back together.
At that age I like to see a puppy that is staying close to what it was and not go all gangly. For example River - I liked her from day one at 3 weeks she just took off around the bedroom - no fear exploring everywhere - as she grew she continued to show a lot of confidence and had a little more body than her sisters. That remained true til she went to Jess. So you observe and watch daily.
Miss Hot Pink came on temperament wise but she was longer legged and just not as smooth over all as River. I did give Jess the input and told her to chose the one she preferred because she was leaing towards Ms. Hot Pink. After I gave her my best recommendation she chose to stick with my initial pick and little MS Red collar became our River.
But some of the breeders over there might not dock til they do ears at 7 to 8 weeks. But unless I was planning on keeping the puppy I would not committ at 3 days when I have tails and dews done. It is so much easier to just crop and dock them all. Then if one surprises me it has a beautiful crop and dock. I do not do different ear crops for that reason. They all get the same show crop just in case. I take placing a show puppy or pick of the litter very very seriously. I worry and stew over it because I want to get it right for the family.
I have no clue how they would evaluate temperament at birth as it develops as the puppy starts to see, hear, move around etc. Temperament is just as important as the conformation.
The prettiest puppy might not have the temperament to shine in the ring. Then what would you do???
I hope that answered your question or gave you what you were looking for.
At that age I like to see a puppy that is staying close to what it was and not go all gangly. For example River - I liked her from day one at 3 weeks she just took off around the bedroom - no fear exploring everywhere - as she grew she continued to show a lot of confidence and had a little more body than her sisters. That remained true til she went to Jess. So you observe and watch daily.
Miss Hot Pink came on temperament wise but she was longer legged and just not as smooth over all as River. I did give Jess the input and told her to chose the one she preferred because she was leaing towards Ms. Hot Pink. After I gave her my best recommendation she chose to stick with my initial pick and little MS Red collar became our River.
But some of the breeders over there might not dock til they do ears at 7 to 8 weeks. But unless I was planning on keeping the puppy I would not committ at 3 days when I have tails and dews done. It is so much easier to just crop and dock them all. Then if one surprises me it has a beautiful crop and dock. I do not do different ear crops for that reason. They all get the same show crop just in case. I take placing a show puppy or pick of the litter very very seriously. I worry and stew over it because I want to get it right for the family.
I have no clue how they would evaluate temperament at birth as it develops as the puppy starts to see, hear, move around etc. Temperament is just as important as the conformation.
The prettiest puppy might not have the temperament to shine in the ring. Then what would you do???
I hope that answered your question or gave you what you were looking for.
Ataro
Notable member
Thanks for your insight Dobs4ever, I was asking because a few of the kennels who got back to me say they only leave pups natural by reservation and that they do the docking at around 1 week of age. Personally I find it very hard to believe that you can tell the quality of a puppy at one week old or less.
And furthermore, there are other kennels who say they leave several undocked until a later age or dock on demand, so that they can better judge when the time comes... which more or less seems to confirm my suspicions.
And furthermore, there are other kennels who say they leave several undocked until a later age or dock on demand, so that they can better judge when the time comes... which more or less seems to confirm my suspicions.
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
I know when I wheped a litter for a friend of mine as she was sick - I fell in love with the ONLY red female in the litter at birth. Don't know what it was but that puppy just spoke to me. But I was keeping her for myself so was not going to mislead anyone but myself. That puppy is my Rayna - Dobewan's Norotious Reigh of Terror - She is my special girl for sure.
Katja Henriksen
Forum Sponsor
I agree with everyone else. Follow your gut!
If they think you are high maintenance you do not want to boy a puppy from them. Imagine what they would think when you call them when the dog is 1, 2, 3 etc years old with questions!!! You know enough to make good decisions.
If they think you are high maintenance you do not want to boy a puppy from them. Imagine what they would think when you call them when the dog is 1, 2, 3 etc years old with questions!!! You know enough to make good decisions.
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
Ataro - I would ask them how they choose a show puppy at that age. Do they place only the pick puppies as show or do they think any puppy in the litter can show??? What happens if the dog is not show material later?? Of course, they have to be willing to open up and talk to you.
It does seem in Europe that you have to build a relationship with them first before they will really open up to you. So rather than start off with questions - contact them and tell them what you are looking for and you see they have produced some beautiful dogs and champions. Would they share about their breeding program with you and give you some info. Let them talk about themselves.
2nd contact ask one of two questions. Third contact ask more questions. and build it up over time til you have the info you want. Explain you would like to come and meet them and see their dogs or meet them at a show when you are over there. Build comfort and trust.
It does seem in Europe that you have to build a relationship with them first before they will really open up to you. So rather than start off with questions - contact them and tell them what you are looking for and you see they have produced some beautiful dogs and champions. Would they share about their breeding program with you and give you some info. Let them talk about themselves.
2nd contact ask one of two questions. Third contact ask more questions. and build it up over time til you have the info you want. Explain you would like to come and meet them and see their dogs or meet them at a show when you are over there. Build comfort and trust.
Ataro
Notable member
I've emailed them and asked them that, so far a couple have not gotten back to me and the one who did said he was a master breeder and has awards, and that he can tell a show puppy from a pet one at one week of age. Really doubtful about this, so I'm thinking it's probably safer to go the route with breeders who leave their pups natural/crop and dock by demand.
I have been sending emails saying what I'm looking for, that I like the look of their dogs etc. but only very few give detailed answers. Many give answers two sentence answers and don't even bother to address me by my name. This is also something I find irritating, if I can find a name on their site, I always make sure to address them by it and I clearly sign my name at the end. Or they immediately start with a sales pitch, avoid details etc., here are a few samples of the emails I received to give you an idea:
1)
hi,
I am not sure that I will make litter in winter time , maby in spring
of 2013 , but it will be clear in autumn.I have mating plans with my
top females Tiara Tiandra and Scara Scarlet
Kaidi
2)
HI NATASHA
I HAVE THIS MOMENT SUPER QULAITY PUPPIES ROM WORLD WINNER MAXIM ALOBELLO AND INTERCHAMPION BRIGGIDA DEL CUORE NERO
IN CASE U CANNOT TAKE PUPPY AT THIS MOMENT I WILL MATE CHAMPION DAISY COBRA AT THE END OF THIS YEAR
PUPPIES CAN CROP IF U WANT OR TAKE IT NATURAL
PRISE FOR TOP TOP QUALITY PUP IS 1500 EUR
I AM SENDING U PICS FROM DOGS OF MY BREEDING SO AS TO SEE THE QUALITY
LET ME KNOW SOON IF U ARE INTEREST
ANYTHING U NEED TO ASK DONT HESITATE TO CONTACT ME
BEST REGARDS
VAGELIS
3)
Hello,
Sorry for my late answer, but I was on the business trip and I was to busy to answer.
Can you be more specific, what kind of health guaranty and contract are you talking about .
If you can send me a sample of it, it will be great. I'm testing all my dogs from the necessary health tests that are required.
B,R
Jordan
I have been sending emails saying what I'm looking for, that I like the look of their dogs etc. but only very few give detailed answers. Many give answers two sentence answers and don't even bother to address me by my name. This is also something I find irritating, if I can find a name on their site, I always make sure to address them by it and I clearly sign my name at the end. Or they immediately start with a sales pitch, avoid details etc., here are a few samples of the emails I received to give you an idea:
1)
hi,
I am not sure that I will make litter in winter time , maby in spring
of 2013 , but it will be clear in autumn.I have mating plans with my
top females Tiara Tiandra and Scara Scarlet
Kaidi
2)
HI NATASHA
I HAVE THIS MOMENT SUPER QULAITY PUPPIES ROM WORLD WINNER MAXIM ALOBELLO AND INTERCHAMPION BRIGGIDA DEL CUORE NERO
IN CASE U CANNOT TAKE PUPPY AT THIS MOMENT I WILL MATE CHAMPION DAISY COBRA AT THE END OF THIS YEAR
PUPPIES CAN CROP IF U WANT OR TAKE IT NATURAL
PRISE FOR TOP TOP QUALITY PUP IS 1500 EUR
I AM SENDING U PICS FROM DOGS OF MY BREEDING SO AS TO SEE THE QUALITY
LET ME KNOW SOON IF U ARE INTEREST
ANYTHING U NEED TO ASK DONT HESITATE TO CONTACT ME
BEST REGARDS
VAGELIS
3)
Hello,
Sorry for my late answer, but I was on the business trip and I was to busy to answer.
Can you be more specific, what kind of health guaranty and contract are you talking about .
If you can send me a sample of it, it will be great. I'm testing all my dogs from the necessary health tests that are required.
B,R
Jordan
Quee
Hot Topics Subscriber
Hi Ataro,
I would skip #1. #2 while a little alarming with the caps shout - actually they seem more sensible - are they Italian? Perhaps they haven't answered all your questions directly because of the language difference, but I would given them a chance since they seem open to questions (and they used your name!). #3 - I guess I would give them a chance as well (it also seems they translated their e-mail into English) and tell them specifically what I'm looking for - if they're fine with the health guaranty and with the contract terms you're referring to I would be open to looking at their dogs, but if I felt that they were shady or not disclosing what information I needed I would ditch them as well.
Just my 2 cents.
I would skip #1. #2 while a little alarming with the caps shout - actually they seem more sensible - are they Italian? Perhaps they haven't answered all your questions directly because of the language difference, but I would given them a chance since they seem open to questions (and they used your name!
). #3 - I guess I would give them a chance as well (it also seems they translated their e-mail into English) and tell them specifically what I'm looking for - if they're fine with the health guaranty and with the contract terms you're referring to I would be open to looking at their dogs, but if I felt that they were shady or not disclosing what information I needed I would ditch them as well.Just my 2 cents.
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