1. Disclaimer: Hello Guest, Doberman Chat Forums presents the opinions and material on these pages as a service to its membership and to the general public but does not endorse those materials, nor does it guarantee the accuracy of any opinions or information contained therein. The opinions expressed in the materials are strictly the opinion of the writer and do not represent the opinion of, nor are they endorsed by, Doberman Chat Forums. Health and medical articles are intended as an aid to those seeking health information and are not intended to replace the informed opinion of a qualified Veterinarian.”
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Hello Guest!
We are glad you found us, if you find anything useful here please consider registering to see more content and get involved with our great community members, it takes less than a minute!

DCM Due to Diet - FDA UPDATE 6/27/19

Discussion in 'Doberman Nutritional Care' started by Rits, Jun 21, 2017.

  1. Ravenbird

    Ravenbird Member

    It's how military would say CF or Cluster F***. Charles Frank is how you can say that in mixed company. :biggrin:

     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  2. LifeofRubie

    LifeofRubie Notable member

    I noticed that Fromm is on their list of dog foods but I double checked... their adult grain-free food, Hearthland Gold, has this listed at their top ingredients: Beef, Pork Meat Meal, Peas,Lentils, Chickpeas, Potatoes. The Adult Classic which we feed has doesn't have any pea, lentil, potato, bean, or legume ingredients. I wish they were more forthcoming about the line of food within each brand.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Viemarangelrock

    Viemarangelrock $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    2DB0B14E-40FB-41BF-AACB-53CE23A8C877.jpeg
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Viemarangelrock

    Viemarangelrock $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    As for foods that contain grain, we have to remember that grains and cereals are inferior ingredients and not particularly appropriate for dogs, but they largely contain more Cysteine and Methionine than legumes, plus they are likely not being used to boost protein levels.
    Using legume protein to boost the lacking animal protein levels in some commercial diets is poor. Some plant matter, possibly - but it should ideally be there as a source of fibre and phytonutrients, not protein and definitely not filler.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Lizbeli

    Lizbeli $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber

    Thanks for bringing this up. I feed Fromm adult gold (black bag). I got a bit nervous and could have sworn it didn't have peas and such. I checked again on their site and potatoes is listed but it is like the 15th ingredient. Im going to have to check the actual bag I am purchasing to make sure.
     
  6. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    Manufacturers have to do this. If they put more Named Meat proteins the food will cost more!
    Grains are cheap and boost protein levels. So most protein is coming from Plants! Dogs should NOT get most of their protein from Plants!
    It might say as 1st ingredient a named meat protein (but this is before it's cooked) like chicken or chicken meal. Also raw chicken and other raw meats are very high in moisture. So after its cooked Meat protein will drop from the 1st spot also from the combination of other similar ingredients!
    But when you look at all of the other ingredients combined its mostly cereal grains. It's called “Ingredient splitting". Also this is why kibble and some canned food are so high (40-60%) in Carbs.



    INGREDIENT SPLITTING IS ONE OF THE PET FOOD ... - Rodney Habib

    INGREDIENT SPLITTING IS ONE OF THE PET FOOD INDUSTRY’S MOST SCANDALOUS PRACTICES - Planet Paws
    “Ingredient splitting is the deceptive practice of subdividing a more abundant (yet inferior quality) ingredient into smaller portions. This dubious tactic can be used to artificially raise a meat item to a higher position on an ingredients list (and lower an inferior one).


    INGREDIENT SPLITTING IS ONE OF THE PET FOOD INDUSTRY’S MOST SCANDALOUS PRACTICES - Planet Paws

    Ingredient Splitting In Your Dog's Food!

    Ingredient Splitting In Your Dog's Food!ingredient-splitting
    Some other examples to look for when ingredient splitting can occur: Corn: Corn gluten meal, corn flour, and whole ground corn. Rice: whole rice, white rice, brown rice, rice flour and rice bran. Potatoes: dried potatoes, potato starch, potato protein, and potato flour.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. Drogon

    Drogon $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber

    This really doesn't tell us much. We'd have to know percentages to have any real meaning. For example if 100,000 people were feeding Acana and there were 67 reported cases and 100 people feeding Rachael Ray with 10 cases, Acana would still be at the top of the list based simply on number of reported cases. It could just mean that the foods with more cases are the most popular foods.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Ravenbird

    Ravenbird Member

    Exactly. And what about if 1 million people feed Old Roy, but they don't have the $ take Fido to the vet for checkups when he's just slowing down a little, then dies? No reports at all on that. So Old Roy at $*supercheap*$/50lbs looks like the best food with 0 reports of DCM per 1 million bags sold.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    As I have mentioned many times before. If you own a Dobermann start supplementing (CoQ10, Taurine, L-Carnitine, D-Ribose for starters) at low doses starting at 1yr. For a Dobe that has not been diagnosed.
    Also again Early Testing!

    This was passed on to us by one of our Holistic Vets.

    Chattanooga Holistic Animal Institute (CHAI)

    You have probably seen the recent FDA update regarding grain-free diets in dogs and heart disease (dilated cardiomyopathy - DCM). Here are some good, thoughtful points about this from a respected colleague (h/t to Dr. Keith Hnilica):

    1- The article is not 100% verified due to relatively few affected dogs based on the total dog population.

    2 - The grain-free part of the diet may or may not be the actual cause of the heart changes.

    3 - The possible lack of enough Taurine is the main concern.

    4 - The listed food brands tell more about the commonality and popularity of the brand and not the scientific defectiveness of the brand.

    5 - Most of the brands are starting to add and supplement extra Taurine (check your ingredients).

    6 - If you want to be sure and safe you can give a Taurine supplement - currently recommended dose is 500mg taurine three times a day for small to medium size dogs, 1000 mg taurine three times a day for large dogs.

    7 - If your dog has any symptoms of fatigue or cough or you are concerned, have your veterinarian check them out.

    A note from CHAI:

    There is blood testing that can be done to check your pets taurine level. There are also multiple, simple and natural ways you can supplement taurine in your pets diet. If you are a client of CHAI and would like to discuss the topic with us, we will be happy to help in any way we can.

    As with most information that is put out there for public consumption, please consider your source of information. Sadly many publications sensationalize information into articles that cause panic whether it be out of concern or because it increases their site traffic is not for us to say. Unsubstantiated claims are often made and fingers are pointed long before all of the information is gathered and answers can be obtained. When a claim is made by the FDA, it's assumed by most to have credibility and research behind it. Sadly most of those claims turn into news stories even before they are thoroughly investigated and results can be acquired. Headlines come out about possible issues but then when found to be unsubstantiated the retraction is not news worthy which leaves the public misinformed. It's frustrating for everyone as we all wait to find out the actual truth behind all the hype. Until then, we are happy to be our clients resource to help wade through the good and bad information to allow them to make informed decisions for their pets.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. JanS

    JanS DCF Owner Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    I had a pretty lengthy conversation with the owner of the feed store today and Lisa yesterday and we all agreed that the studies are inconclusive because of all of the things you've all mentioned above. Lisa and I have both decided that we're going to stick with what's working for us since our dogs have been on it for years with no ill effects. Della is 10, Albert is 8 and Atti is 6 so we aren't going to jump on this panic bandwagon unless something changes that gives definite evidence.

    Demelza isn't as old but she's had all of the cardio tests (holter, echo, etc.) done recently by a very highly recommended cardio vet in the Cities and her results were excellent.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  11. My2Girls

    My2Girls Notable member

    Wait, who’s Atti? I thought you only had 2 dobies.
     
  12. JanS

    JanS DCF Owner Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    Sorry, he's a very close relative to Albert owned by one of my best friends here in this area.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    Answers Pet Food
    Page Liked · 3 hrs ·

    THE HEART OF THE MATTER.

    Pets are not receiving proper nutrients. Processes that denature and strip away naturally-occurring vitamins and minerals are being replaced with synthetics. There are ingredients called anti-nutrients that actively block the absorption of nutrients that pets need in order to thrive such as Taurine.

    Put your mind at ease. As the only company that ferments raw wholefoods, which actually ENHANCES the nutritional value of food, Answers is the most natural and complete nutrient-dense pet food available. Confused or uncertain your pet is receiving enough nutrients? Adding a fermented raw milk into their diet is a step in the right direction.

    Answers Pet Foods List.jpg
     
  14. WiglWerm

    WiglWerm Hot Topics Subscriber

    There are TWO "types" of DCM, correct? The type that is GENETIC and the type that is DIET related. Diet related DCM in many cases is REVERSED when the diet is adjusted. WHY couldn't they call it DRDCM (Diet related DCM?) I see A LOT of people confusing the 2.
    I call Bullshite on the dogs that developed( taurine deficient) DCM on RAW. NO WAY. Taurine comes from MEAT PROTEINS!! Wth. BUT they could have developed DCM through their genetics...

    @strykerdobe ...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Rits

    Rits Admin Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    Premade raw can and often is lumped under the Raw label. A fair amount of the premade stuff has crap added in it. Maybe stuff that is blocking the absorption of taurine?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. WiglWerm

    WiglWerm Hot Topics Subscriber

    OR maybe Vegan diet is lumped under "raw"?
     
  17. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    • Informative Informative x 2
  18. Viemarangelrock

    Viemarangelrock $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I watched this last. Very informative! YET i’ve still got lots of questions.

    So for people that don’t feed raw does this mean that PPP is a better kibble option OR just safer when looking at DCM? Are the number of amino acids in PPP safe and healthy for dogs? Are the amino acids and other nutrients food based or synthetic? If synthetic,is the food really healthier and safer? Are we still talking legumes or amino acids???

    Dogs that die to genetic DCM is it easier to point a finger at the food? Blame the food instead of bad breeding and genetics?

    People feeding unbalanced raw, even though it’s full of taurine, can still leave their dog with a taurine deficiency?


    4F21C722-8C8F-494D-AA3E-BBB7AEB816F7.jpeg
     
  19. Viemarangelrock

    Viemarangelrock $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    So the industry watchdog are saying you must meet this level for amino acids but that level is incredibly low. Surely a diet with insufficient amino acids will not support healthy organ and muscle function.

    Here in Europe, even the lowest required level for these two necessary amino acids are higher than in the U.S.
    54F05D39-2D9B-4617-92F4-FE218AA48D9F.jpeg
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. Viemarangelrock

    Viemarangelrock $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    • Informative Informative x 1

Share This Page