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DCM Due to Diet - FDA UPDATE 6/27/19

Discussion in 'Doberman Nutritional Care' started by Rits, Jun 21, 2017.

  1. Ravenbird

    Ravenbird Member

    So I'm wondering: If the problem is peas/lentils, why are some brands that have peas/lentils not on the list? Because just a small % of the population feeds Fromm? I do think that kibble is awful in any form, but is the chart accurate to say that basically 95% of cases were fed kibble, when basically 95% of the population feeds their dogs kibble? Or do you think if P's & L's cause more problems with dehydrated form of food and/or Taurine isn't as viable in that form? And if 9 were raw, how many raw feeders ever add peas or lentils to their raw food? Or are peas & lentils added to the pre-made raw??? Just my scientific mind working overtime. Yesterday I went to our local boutique pet store where they carry all the fancy & very expensive foods, I'd say over 3/4 were Grain Free. How can even the "best", highest rated brands be cranking out this stuff? And what does it take to fix this problem? How many of us have $500/month to feed a dog? Insanity. Sorry, rant over.

     
  2. NamVetJoe

    NamVetJoe Member

  3. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    Yes still lots of questions still need to be answered!

    My feelings once again. Manufactures are just putting in too many plant proteins and carbs in dog food today.
    If your seeing Peas, Lentils or Potatoes (which they think are the issue) in the first 10 ingredients I would not feed it.
    Also I would be for sure supplementing with Taurine. Also Omega 3 Fish Oil, L-Carnitine, CoQ10 and D-Ribose are all good for the Heart.

    We feed Raw
    As far as Raw feeders it could be they are not feeding the correct amounts of food, doing a rotation (is important) of different meat proteins, not enough organs like Heart, Liver Kidneys and others? We don't feed lots of veggies. At times we do feed Dark Leafy Greens like Kale, Spinach. Never fed Peas/Lentils.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    Just my guess but I think the high heat treated process that kibble goes through denatures something in them - similar to how the various cooking oils have different smoke points which are important to know when we cook our own food. We feed premade raw and they have an option to get it with fruits and veg, or with nothing added. The fruit and veg should be itemized in the ingredient list and I've never seen peas and lentils so I bet it’s coming off table scraps. When I first started feeding raw I gave Kaiser lots of different stuff from the human food supply. Probably he’s sampled every food item we’ve ever brought into the house.
     
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  5. Viemarangelrock

    Viemarangelrock $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    We’ve strayed so far from a carnivore’s natural diet, we have been feeding foods that are more plant-based than meat-based. With that in mind we are negatively affecting the proper functioning of their bodies.

    Research is vital. We need answers. This is the just the tip of an iceberg that will sink many ships.

    I’ve come to the conclusion that there are no safe companies as far as i’m concerned. Hence my switch to raw. Kibble needs massive amounts of starch in comparison to a dog's natural diet simply to hold it together. Whether the starch is grain-based or alternative plant starches as seen in grain free kibble, it is simply too much.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. JanS

    JanS DCF Owner Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    I just posted this on my FB page yesterday and it's sort of sad that so many of the foods we consider better are on the list.

    When the FDA first alerted the public in 2018 to cases of DCM, the agency didn't mention specific brands; only foods labeled as "grain-free" and containing peas, lentils, other legume seeds and/or potatoes as the main ingredients.
    As part of that investigation, the FDA has now identified 16 brands of dog food which had the most frequent reported cases of DCM. The top three brands, according to the FDA, are Acana, named in 67 reports; Zignature, named in 64, and Taste of the Wild, named in 53 reports.
    [​IMG]

    Dog Food Brands Named Most Frequently in DCM Cases Reported to FDA
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. My2Girls

    My2Girls Notable member

    I’m so pissed at the little boutique store we frequented in TX. I follow their FB page and they sent out this please share portion of the report that states it’s only a potential and only a small %. And that because all the stuff they sell is the high end brands and they’re all in the list. So angry with them. I did comment on their post - hoping they don’t block me but come on. Something is going on!
     
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  8. C908

    C908 Member

    Do we know if they are referring to just the grain free flavors of these brands ? I know some of these brands offer both grain and grain free.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. My2Girls

    My2Girls Notable member

    There’s more info in the Low taurine thread- the last few pages.
    I think the issue is if peas, lentils and potatoes are in the top ten ingredients.
     
  10. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    So true about how Kibble is made. Here is a short class.
    Some different process like baking or extruding process. Baking can be done at high temperature or a lower temperature which takes longer. Or extruding at higher temperature.
    It’s like a slurry or dough (which is meat protein, fat, veggies, carbs, grains and other ingredients) which is put in to an extruding machine. It’s then heated and formed into a shape. This heating destroys lots of vitamins and other nutrients. So you can call it almost dead food! They also need to add some type of starch so the kibble will hold its shape. Once the kibble is leaving the extruding machine the kibble is sprayed with flavors, synthetic vitamins, amino acids and preservatives.


    Pet Food Industry: What They Don't Want You to Know

    Refuse This Ruined Food That Snips Away Your Pet’s Life One Bite at a Time

    The Cooking Of Pet Food
     
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  11. Gelcoater

    Gelcoater Expert ThreadCrapper $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber

    I may be wrong but it seems from my reading it’s more towards potato/sweet potato.
    Something about potato or something in it preventing proper taurine absorption.
     
  12. Gelcoater

    Gelcoater Expert ThreadCrapper $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber

    Are there any private studies done?

    As soon as one mentioned the FDA, or any government agency, my trust is gone.
     
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  13. Max Hawk

    Max Hawk Hot Topics Subscriber

    Joe was having some issues with digestion and I just switched to a brand that was supposed to be easy on the stomach and of course potatoes is one of the main ingredients! Yikes.. I am looking for a new food asap! :(
     
    • Empathetic Empathetic x 3
  14. Max Hawk

    Max Hawk Hot Topics Subscriber

    I agree on that.. I am not going to panic but I don't think it ever hurts to change their diet around once in a while. I do use turkey and beef etc..with their kibble so I feel that they get a pretty good balance. They seem to be doing good on grain free.. I for sure don't trust anything our government does at all. :(
     
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  15. Rits

    Rits Admin Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    Because these are only the cases that were reported by pet parents and their vets. There are 77million dogs in the US. Think about how many people are either too lazy, dont have the money, or care, or are uneducated.

    Yes. Most likely premade raw. Just because its "raw" doesnt mean its necessarily good or optimum for a dogs nutritional needs.

    Right now as sad as it is, this is still "we dont know exactly why dogs are dying" but we think its related to x somehow and some breeds seem more predisposed to diet related DCM
     
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  16. NamVetJoe

    NamVetJoe Member

  17. Ravenbird

    Ravenbird Member

    ... and the other thing is, my long gone doberman (1991 - 2002) was raised on Eukanuba puppy chow, because it was supposed to be better than Purina and I wanted her to get the very best while growing. Then she was on Purina chow the rest of her days. She was never sick and never lame and never had the shits, never visited the vet except her yearly vacs (and I had her spayed at 13 months). She died in her sleep after a normal day when she was 11 (so, yeah, probably heart related). The cat I had during that same period lived to be 18 on free-choice cat chow, whatever name brand was on sale. I wonder if we can find an ingredient list for kibble 25 years ago? If the ingredients were still full of starch and soy and wheat, then are we looking at GMO's and heavy pesticides? Yes, I'd really like to see some independent studies, not by FDA or pet food industries or big Agriculture.
     
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  18. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    Yes good point on certain GMO Grains and pesticide use. One of first things I tell someone who is looking for a pet food? I tell them do not feed any foods that have any Corn, Wheat or Soy of any kind in them. Most corn, wheat and soy are GMO. Lots of their seeds are Roundup ready. Which means farmers can spray the :poop: out the crops and the crops will not die. The use of pesticides in the U.S. have increased. From 1987 to 2012 use of Roundup use grew from 11 million pounds to nearly 300 million pounds. Also the use of GMO seed use has grown from the 90's.

    There are some studies on GMO's saying they can alter the Gut Microbiome. Which can cause absorption issues.

    I think every pet owner should be calling their pet food companies and ask if they test their pet foods for Glyphosate (Roundup)??
     
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  19. Ravenbird

    Ravenbird Member

    Exactly why the "grain free" revolution, but instead of putting meat protein back into what they'd replaced with soy, and the starch from wheat & corn they added peas and lentils. (((cheaper protein))) Corn & Soy are almost entirely GMO, unless you buy certified organic, but wheat (I think) mostly is not, BUT they spray it heavily with roundup at harvest (and oats and other grains that are not GMO) to encourage it to seed bigger & faster. I've been following this Charles Frank since about 2005 and it's nothing but a downhill slide. I'm hoping someone asks what a Charles Frank is, just to lighten the conversation. :D
     
  20. Gelcoater

    Gelcoater Expert ThreadCrapper $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber

    Ok, I’ll ask:D
    I really hope it’s some anti Monsanto activist:cool:
     

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