Bullmastiffs

[Oh Little Oji]

But yeah. Canis Panther.

Pluses at this point:

Short easy-care coat
Dry mouth
Short cropped ears
Commonly has a black or dark coat
Good watchdog (guard dog capabilities, I don't know at this point)
Athletic, agile
Good sized
Ostensibly, few health issues
My favorite animal is the Jaguar (Panther)

Minuses at this point:

Not the best looking body?
Not the most attractive or intimidating physiognomy?
Reliability with family, I don't know at this point

Hmm. What else?

 

[Tropicalbri's]

The fact that you speak of this breed as a good possible option though, Bri, has me definitely planning on looking into it.

I think the main reason I mention it is because we have one in the practice and he is gorgeous. He is friendly with us even when we have to trim his nails, draw blood or get a temp and fecal. He gets along with other dogs when introduced in a neutral setting. His name is Cadence and he weighs about 128lbs.
He loves swimming and has a beautiful hair coat. Very shiny and healthy.
The owner did say that he will not allow people to come in the yard even though he knows them. She said she has to be there to let them in, then he is fine. Owner also said Cadence was very gentle and affectionate with their grandkids.
I was impressed with him. He has been well trained so he doesn’t jump and go crazy like a lot of dogs that come in. He is a very confident dog but he does have a look about him that makes you think twice about approaching. Much like Bogie’s serious face. Lol

 

[jazzies mum]

I think the main reason I mention it is because we have one in the practice and he is gorgeous. He is friendly with us even when we have to trim his nails, draw blood or get a temp and fecal. He gets along with other dogs when introduced in a neutral setting. His name is Cadence and he weighs about 128lbs.
He loves swimming and has a beautiful hair coat. Very shiny and healthy.
The owner did say that he will not allow people to come in the yard even though he knows them. She said she has to be there to let them in, then he is fine. Owner also said Cadence was very gentle and affectionate with their grandkids.
I was impressed with him. He has been well trained so he doesn’t jump and go crazy like a lot of dogs that come in. He is a very confident dog but he does have a look about him that makes you think twice about approaching. Much like Bogie’s serious face. Lol

The pic you posted is magnificent! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess, but I would be proud to own one. The health benefits of having mixed genetics is also pretty high on my list of good points.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

The health benefits of having mixed genetics is also pretty high on my list of good points.

That really is an intriguing factor.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Canis Panther.

Pluses at this point:

Short easy-care coat
Dry mouth
Short cropped ears
Commonly has a black or dark coat
Good watchdog (guard dog capabilities, I don't know at this point)
Athletic, agile
Good sized
Ostensibly, few health issues
My favorite animal is the Jaguar (Panther)

Minuses at this point:

Not the best looking body?
Not the most attractive or intimidating physiognomy?
Reliability with family, I don't know at this point
New Minuses: Apparently high prey drive, and high energy

Hmm. What else?

 

[Lizbeli]

I get a bandog vibe from them to be honest. But that can be a somewhat ignorant view since they have been working on this breed since the 70s. And I know purebreds came from different breeds to start with. I just feel like these dogs need to be more refined. They all look so different. Some look disproportionate with small heads. Just get a well bred doberman at this point. They pretty much look like doberman mixes.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. Haha

 

[Oh Little Oji]

I get a bandog vibe from them to be honest. But that can be a somewhat ignorant view since they have been working on this breed since the 70s. And I know purebreds came from different breeds to start with. I just feel like these dogs need to be more refined. They all look so different. Some look disproportionate with small heads. Just get a well bred doberman at this point. They pretty much look like doberman mixes.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. Haha

I hear ya' on all counts.

It's funny though: The Canis Panther has been being bred (true to type I assume and hope) since the '70s, and one account I've heard thus far said 1970. That makes the breed as old as me. That's 50 years – 1/2 a century! This breed has been around since years before I ever heard what a Doberman was!

Yes, I would need to have very good assurance of what appearance I'd be winding up with in the dog. I alluded to it above, how it seems the heads are not impressive looking. Even the breed standard says they narrow toward the nose, and you can see that. This gives sort of snipey, or at leasts diminutive appearance to the snout. I wonder if it's because the jaws are wide though.

I am seeing some moderately high croups, which I don't like; but I would be prepared to accept a high croup if I got a Mastiff-type dog so...

I like that a breed trait is to have a chest that's on the wider end. I like that the standard calls for a couple inches more height than the Doberman, and maybe 30 lbs. more weight.

So, I'd be getting a dog that's like a Doberman in watchdog ability, but is hopefully bigger and with a wide chest. The ear crop would be shorter, which I like. The appearance may be less attractive overall, and proportions might be unpleasing. It supposedly would be considerably less prone to health problems and may live longer.

Would it have a greater deterrent factor? Maybe equal, as long as it had cropped ears. I'd hope that it wouldn't just be taken for a large dog, but wouldn't elicit caution and fear in the bad guys.

One thing the Doberman brings, even if the individual specimen is not impressive looking (Oji) is that if the bad guy knows what a Doberman is, then along comes with it the reputation, the legends and the basic "Oh, that's a Doberman! I wouldn't mess around." factor.

 

[Lizbeli]

High croups drive me nuts, I know what you mean. Definitely seems more prevalent in mastiffs.

Dobermans certainly keep the weirdos away thats for sure. Even people who admire the breed seem to give us space. In the almost two years only two or three people asked to pet him that I can remember. Even a guy that had another doberman with him didn’t approach Jasper for pets. We just stood there and let the dogs run around together.


They are a great, just wish they had better genetics when it came to health.

Im still stuck on a corso or doberman for my next dog. Who knows, I may never some to a decision. We might be a single dog house for a couple more years! Seems like you are having a hard time choosing too hha

 

[MyBuddy]

Canis Panther breed?
Very loyal, high drive, very protective and no slobber like mastiffs.
It’s a blend of Doberman, American Staffordshire, Labrador and Great Dane.

No health issues genetic to the breed have been reported.

Some look disproportionate with small heads.

I have never heard of this breed. Interesting looking dog. Sleek like a Doberman; seems like a head of a pitbull. I look at that picture and just seems to be a conglomerate of different breeds. Which it is! LOL Maybe the head is too small but for some reason it seems a little odd to me. I like him but there's something about it that seems odd. Maybe he really does look like a panther! LOL

Health issues being non-existent is certainly intriguing though!

 

[Oh Little Oji]

What are your impressions of this breeder?

VIDEOS | Rock of ages

 

[Lizbeli]

I saw his website. I couldn’t find any pages of their sires and dams for any health testing and general info. Checked out his youtube. Some of the dogs have a weird bunny hop but “Hennessy” has pretty good movement. They just look wired to me in general I suppose. Hennessy is the better looking dog imo, but any doberman in my eyes would be a better looking dog. I think they need to work on general conformation of the breed.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Well okay! If you want to hear a lot about the Canis Panther and its origins – from one of the originators, here is an interview with him. Very informative.

I guess Rock of Ages Kennels is the home of the Canis Panther. No wonder they own the website name canis panther dot com. I was wondering about that.

I actually like what the guy (Michael "Gypsy" Stratten) has to say! I agree with his theories.

This, however, does not mean that I am confident in what they produce and what a buyer would wind up with. I do see too much variation in the appearance of their dogs. I don't know that they have registered pedigrees. Hopefully they at least have them written down.

When it comes to appearance, though, I like one of his maxims and breeding criteria: "Look good. Act right." Hopefully this would mean that he and his wife would be open to me inquiring about appearance and admitting that I care about appearance (A question that I have feared turns off breeders, and makes them feel a prospective buyer doesn't care about what's important). Yes, I care a ton about temperament and health; but I also care a ton about appearance!

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Too funny! Last night I was looking at the results of some search I did on the Canis Panther and guess what one of the links was.

"canis Panther" Breed And Breeders

@Gelcoater and @Ingrid H are the two still-active members who I saw in the thread.

Gel, I appreciate your openness and ideas in that thread.

 

[Lizbeli]

Interesting! And I agree with the whole appearance thing. I mean, a dogs appearance is the first thing I see, then I look into the breeds traits to see if they would match my lifestyle. Then ill go onto finding a breeder with the right temperament and health testing. So for me appearance is first when I look at new breeds. Isn’t that natural?

If you are really considering this breed, definitely dig into the breeder for the health testing and longevity of his lines. Because I don’t see much of anything on them. Even that thread you mentioned is 2014. You would think by now we would know more. Maybe I am just not researching enough. And why is it that Rock of Ages Kennels doesn’t list his males and females on his site? If he is so proud wouldn't he want to show them off a bit? Just not much info on them still imo. Even for a breed started like 50yrs ago.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Interesting! And I agree with the whole appearance thing. I mean, a dogs appearance is the first thing I see, then I look into the breeds traits to see if they would match my lifestyle. Then ill go onto finding a breeder with the right temperament and health testing. So for me appearance is first when I look at new breeds. Isn’t that natural?

If you are really considering this breed, definitely dig into the breeder for the health testing and longevity of his lines. Because I don’t see much of anything on them. Even that thread you mentioned is 2014. You would think by now we would know more. Maybe I am just not researching enough. And why is it that Rock of Ages Kennels doesn’t list his males and females on his site? If he is so proud wouldn't he want to show them off a bit? Just not much info on them still imo. Even for a breed started like 50yrs ago.

I figure that's just not the way they roll. I think the term "Old School" might apply very well here.

I doubt they do much, if any, health testing. I don't think they are that scientific about it.

They know their dogs and they make decisions on breedings. Actually, based on that podcast interview, it sounds like the wife handles the breeding. Interesting side note: Gypsy said she is the first white person to be involved in the breed – ha! I don't think they want to, or feel the need to, proclaim for the public their dogs and their plans.

He did say that he has run into potential buyers getting frustrated because they want a pup like right now, but they are not necessarily having any available at that time. The wife, according to Gypsy, likes to let a dog be at least 2 years old before making a decision on whether or not to breed it.

Really, overall, I get the feeling that while maybe the breed can be considered to be breeding true-to-type there is a lot of variation in what is produced. I think maybe you might see a Canis Panther that is a more Great Dane type, or you might see one that is more Doberman, or one that is more Am Staff. Some do show up with pretty evident Doberman markings, for example. Some have more evident Dane build.

If I were to get one, I'd need transparency on what the pup is going to be. I'd need to see as much of it as possible before I committed. The older it was allowed to be before I committed, the better I could know what I'd be getting. But to have a pup be overly old without being yet purchased usually means it's one that has some flaw and they're having trouble getting rid of it. I also would be concerned about whether they are providing the kind of developmental support a young pup needs.

Lots to think about. Good thing this decision is years down the road for me unless Oji unexpectedly dies.

 

[jazzies mum]

unless Oji unexpectedly dies.

You don't mean that!

If I lived anywhere near Rock of Ages kennels I would be really interested in having a closer look. I like the ethics behind the breeding of these dogs and I am fairly forgiving of appearance providing the dog is sound.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

You don't mean that!

If I lived anywhere near Rock of Ages kennels I would be really interested in having a closer look. I like the ethics behind the breeding of these dogs and I am fairly forgiving of appearance providing the dog is sound.

My wife's brother lives like 75 miles from this breeder. In fact, she is going to visit that brother like next week. I'm invited of course, but as always, I am opting to stay home with Oji.

But yeah. I would want to visit their facility in person before considering a pup.

The husband is very convincing and an impressive man in terms of life experiences; and I imagine his wife is convincing as well. If I was really impressed by their "Panthers" on top of that, I'd have to keep my head on straight.

 

[WiglWerm]

The wife, according to Gypsy, likes to let a dog be at least 2 years old before making a decision on whether or not to breed it.

The usual reason for waiting until after 2 yrs is to get all the health testing done, to then be able to decide if it is breedable stock. Make sure they are doing health testing... especially hips and elbows.

 

[Rits]

The usual reason for waiting until after 2 yrs is to get all the health testing done, to then be able to decide if it is breedable stock. Make sure they are doing health testing... especially hips and elbows.

Holter and echo too, DCM can happen from what I've read. Heck, pretty much any of the health tests known for the breeds in the background of those dogs.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Okay, I have a negative opinion of the people who are making videos and trying to make online "influencers" of themselves by putting up vids of them and their dogs and proffering their ideas on dog breeds and training. The guy in the following vid is one named Jason Corey. I've viewed a handful of his vids about his large black Cane Corso.

Actually, I think I posted a vid of his in this thread that shows a mock home intruder and their Corso's reaction. In it, Jason postulates and explains how his Corso's reaction was just perfect. My opinion is that the dog displayed good watchdog instincts, but also displayed fear. Anyway...

I will say I have been impressed in some ways with this guy's somewhat oversized and good looking Corso. It displays pretty good athleticism for its size (but it's still young) and it actually plays pretty well with a flirt pole, displaying prey drive.

In the following video, you will see this large Corso play at biting a bite sleeve on the arm of its owner. I must say (and not that I advocate having one's dog bite a sleeve on them if one wants to promote actual guarding behavior) that I am very impressed with this Corso's going after and pretty much full-mouth biting the sleeve! The dog supposedly doesn't have any prior training with it, and just did some playing around with it that day prior to the video. The dog hits the sleeve at a level that would put many many other dogs to shame!

I am surprised and impressed especially because I consider, and assume, this handsome, oversized Corso to be from breeding that is all about looks.