American VS European Doberman

[Denissov43]

I am a fan of the Euro's which is why we did months of research on the bloodlines we wanted from "Across the Pond" and we ended up with full Russian bloodlines out of a very well established and previously un-imported to the USA line...
I did like the Ukrainian, Serbian dogs, Italian dogs and some Croatian lines as well. We ended up with a classic heavy boned, square, blocky headed 'doggy bitch' which I could not be MORE thrilled with. She has the drive of a machine, she loves to work, plays hard, couch potatoe's hard, sucks on toys to fall asleep, velcro's herself to my or my husbands thigh, is a social butterfly and has won in the show ring in Conformation and has it all...
She will never make the cut in "AKC" because of the great photos shown above of the difference between European and N.A. standards! she is russian tank at 26" tall and 89.8 lbs... at nigh unto 12 months in 4 days...
she is thick, wide, heavy and super muscular but she has meat on her bones covering the bones, so skeletal parts do not show... no ribs, no shoulder bones, and yet, she moves with grace and elegance like you see in her thumbnail photo here...
but this shot of her from the rear shows a TANK.... in motion!

 

[KelMosh]

My pup is from a Euro dad and from reading this post....he definately has the character of the Euro! The problem then is, he is soooooo active and energized, he will not put weight on. Always burning it up. Any suggestions? What do you feed your Euro dogs to keep the weight on. Im guessing the US bred dobes are pretty much the same, however our last dobie(from US breeding) was a great weight but also alot cruisier too. Thanks

 

[Denissov43]

KelMosh:
I am a raw food feeder...
If you check my user name and see my posts I have tonz of them regarding food... I feed 1-2 lbs of raw meat a day... thats why this 11 month old girl in this photo is 90 lbs... well not quite.. 89.8... I have had to take weight off of her to show her... I have been feeding a high quality kibble called Fromm and Timberwolf for a week and she took off about 3-4 lbs in 8 days eating 2.5 cups of that ONLY per day... she would eat 4-5 cups a day if I let her and she put the weight on and she works out every day around 2 hours and runs by my car about 1.5 miles 4 times a week and keeps the weight on.. only way to take it off was to cut out her daily meat ration for that 8 days. I could keep her at around 83-84 lbs if I only fed her meat every couple days instead of every day and fed her about 2 cups of high quality kibble a day, but she likes to be around 88-89 lbs that seems to be her 'natural weight' right now...

 

[Dakota]

There is a distinct difference in temperament - Euros just keeping on working like the energizer bunny, NA dogs just lack the drive and have to be handled very carefully. You can never focus on just on aspect of a dog and succeed - you have to focus on the total dog and that is the biggest challenge of conformation - you can't evaluate temperament or drives -and the working side of dogs fell by the wayside. We all know that right now people have become paranoid about health - we have problems, but I don't see it correcting itself anytime soon. Euro's claim that they are healthier but our dogs originally came from the same place, sometimes I think it is a lot of thinking the grass is greener on the other side. Euros have done a better job on temperament and working drives but they have the interest to make it happen. Every little hamlet over there has a working group. Here they are few and far between and for many years it was done almost in secret here, there it seems to be more a part of life. That is why is blows me away that they managed to implement the non/crop dock issue with their dogs. Most of the great breeds originated over there, seems to me they had the backing to overcome the issue and did nothing or were asleep at the wheel.

I personally have seen I also think that American's have made the dogs soft to a point- they don't let them be dogs. JMHO

Euro's have a great energy to a point where if you don't stop them, they work themselves to death, they love working for you but they can also be very house-like.

I'm concerned about health aswell. I've put my baby to sleep in November after he just turned 1 year. He suffered from DCM and today we discovered our female has a thyroid gland condition, something to do with a hormone that isn't functioning normal and her immune system is attacking her thyroid gland. Both dogs come from strong and healthy bloodlines and I'm getting tired of hearing tales of bloodlines this and bloodlines that, it got me worried to the point where I'm asking myself if health issues are the prime focus with breeders today. Here in Europe I feel the community expects Doberman owners to work their dogs, to be active in training and do some kind of sport and focus more on the beauty side, rather then looking at the health issues. Here in Europe, most pure bred dogs have the most health issues, I knew this problem exsisted but I'm reading more and more these days about young Dobermans getting sick, it's getting more common.

I don't think it's just an Amaican problem, Americans just tend to read about it less from the European side because all the major Doberman forums, are American controlled and Europeans are not as community orientated as Americans are... or atleast, that's what I'm guessing. I read a lot, rarely mix in these days, but my feeling and this is purely my perspective, is that beauty is put before health more common then most people think. You just gotta have a perfect looking dog that fits the standard cause they gotta look good on the field, that's the kind of vibe I'm getting...

Well... just my rant I guess but my two cents non the less

 

[Dakota]

My pup is from a Euro dad and from reading this post....he definately has the character of the Euro! The problem then is, he is soooooo active and energized, he will not put weight on. Always burning it up. Any suggestions? What do you feed your Euro dogs to keep the weight on. Im guessing the US bred dobes are pretty much the same, however our last dobie(from US breeding) was a great weight but also alot cruisier too. Thanks

I know the problem, it's something I hear a lot. When we first got our female, we went out 4 / 5 times a day and we just fed her more when she burned a lot but never too much, if you know what I mean. We mostly used dry food and I've took some advise from the forums on feeding extra's, like eggs, garlic and if my female would go swimming, we'd give her something fat. She was a real active bitch, so we made sure she got enough of everything.

 

[Denissov43]

I have both an american lines female, and a euro lines male. The female works in obedience etc, while I work the male in SchH, and will be taking him to the conformation ring as well.
as for the differences, the easiest ones to give testament to, is that the euro boy never stops, he wants to play and go go go, in the house he always has a ball or kong in his mouth and constantly brings it to me to fight with him for it, or to throw for him to get. While the female is content to lay on the couch with my wife. The female is much more sensitive to corrections, where the male is a bit harder. I love them both, but while they are absolutely so similar in most ways, its the subtle differences that make working the male, so much fun. He just never shuts off, and never slows down.

that description of your male is a carbon copy of my Russian bitch.. she is a perpetual motion machine. She will be exhausted and still want to play tug of war or go and get some toy to shove in my hand or lap or face to solicit me to play with her. I remember all of my NA Dobermans as being couch potato's.. they would be just as happy to lay around all day long as they were to go to the beach and run and chase sand pipers...
but happy as a clam to have a nap on the furniture, bed or something comfy...
Gemma is a self entertaining dog too. I am still trying to catch a video of her when she plays 'catch my tail' and whip the toys around in a circle and make the deck bounce.. she is the happiest, busiest, goofiest, most energetic Doberman I have had.. and I have had a half dozen. you hit the nail on the head Dale... she just never shuts off and or slows down! we call her 'The machine"...

 

[Apollo]

Aesa is total euro line , she gets 3 cups of food a day, trains hard and plays hard and Apollo just gets 1.5 cup a day and is huge. He has the total euro look and isn't

 

[Marinegeekswife]

Spock is 1/4 Euro and 3/4 American lines as far as I know. I love his mix. He has more of the American neck and underline but his drives are more Euro. He is exactly what we wanted. I'd love to get a full sister to him but I think we'll be looking at another breeder and just look for something similar when that time comes.

 

[Omega Doberman]

@ Denissov....That pic of your female is JUST PRICELESS>......when i envision a bitch THAT IS IT!!!!

I PREFER EURO LINES AS WELL!!!

This is my Euro Female @ 4 months...I hope she matures like yours!!!

 

[Denissov43]

Stacy
she WILL....
here is Gemma at 5 months old.. it appears from these photos that your girl is already bigger and heavier than at 4 months..
what does your puppy weigh now? take her weight at 4 months old and double it and its what you can expect her to be as an adult... Gemma was 42 lbs at 16 weeks of age.. and she hovers around 84-86 now..

She is still growing too.. she is 14 months old now and probably wont mature into all her skin and structure till she is over 2 yrs old. I think when she is 3 yrs old she will probably weigh around 88-90 lbs and that will be the weight she stays at unless she is working heavily in schutzhund by then. They perhaps she will hover around 85 ish like now...
Your girl is awesome! and I personally like the bigger heavier Dobies from Europe.. not all are, but I like the Italians and the Russians because they are just that...

 

[Omega Doberman]

She is Awesome. Her is a pic yesterday of Zuri...i just weighed her 3 minutes ago and she is 5 months and 6 days old..and weighs 59.9 pounds

 

[Denissov43]

Is she gaining about 10-12 lbs a month now? We weighed Gemma every month from 4 months till now..
she was 42 lbs at 16 weeks (4months exactly) at 5 months she was around 54-55 lbs, 6 months 66 lbs, 7 months 74 lbs, 8 months 84 lbs and she stayed there till 10 months when she went into heat and had a false pregnancy and gained 7 lbs in a month, so she was up to 91 lbs at 11 months... She is now back down to around 85 ish....
they grow really fast from 3-9 months and then usually slow way down...

 

[Denissov43]

She is Awesome. Her is a pic yesterday of Zuri...i just weighed her 3 minutes ago and she is 5 months and 6 days old..and weighs 59.9 pounds

I can tell she is already going to be taller than Gemma.. I can see from this photo she has longer legs and a longer body... Gemma is exactly 26" tall.. she is very square. She is a very big girl but she is right in the standard for FCI... your girl is going to be taller! and probably heavier.. so you are on track to have a fabulous big bodacious Red Head too!
and too much tape on her ears honey! you need to use much much less tape...
all that tape is pulling that one ear in and making it lean. Use the method that uses just a few pieces of tape and use a bridge in the middle... the bridge keeps the ears at 11 and 1 position in the clock...
Use the Zonas Porous tape that is 1" wide... and use a single long strip about 6" long right at the base of the ear and then you use a long piece about 16" long to make a bridge from the base across to the other ear and then press the pieces together in the middle, but pull the ears up tight when you create the bridge... use a single piece of tape at the tip but do not cover that top 1/2" of ear tip.. it should be exposed and the tape on the ear tips is really loose. A single piece of tape about 3" long is sufficient... just to hold the tips up against the backer rod foam... all that tape is just overkill and serves no purpose in support.
If you want to cover the ears use that non adhesive Horse leg wrap tape that comes in colors like black or red, or pink... to protect the ear, but all that tape is just cause the ears to be sweaty and damp, and pulls hair off...
My two cents on the ear taping thing!!
she is gonna be a horse!

 

[Omega Doberman]

Thanks for the ear taping advice. I am a beginner at this. her ears are almost perfect standing. I did cause her to get sore ears with this wrap and i feel horrible. i will leave them untapped until it heals and if i need to i think i may glue in a post and not use tape.

 

[My Mateese]

Thanks for sharing all the information, very interesting.

 

[Denissov43]

Stacy:
you can take her to the groomers and get her ears shaved... inside more so than outside. When I show Gemma the groomer shaves her ears completely out of the inside. So that makes it alot easier to use glue...
I used the EZ earz method (google it) and I told Maureen Haarkenson here on DC about it... perhaps you can find the thread... she is now doing the glue in method with her dog Max... she did a great job!
I found that it worked really good but you will have to re glue the foam inserts in her ears about every 3-5 days as the glue will come loose and the foam falls out.
She has a long show crop and it is going to take you many more months to get those to stand and stay up...
it took us till Gemma was 11 months old. One Doberman gal STILL has her males ears taped at 15 months! A friend of mine from Serbia, coned and taped his bitch till she was 18 months old! Long show crops take a long time to stand and stay up! SO you will be really really good at this when its all said and done!! practice makes perfect!!

 

[Apollo]

Thanks for the ear taping advice. I am a beginner at this. her ears are almost perfect standing. I did cause her to get sore ears with this wrap and i feel horrible. i will leave them untapped until it heals and if i need to i think i may glue in a post and not use tape.

Stacy thats what Diva meant, its called vetwrap

 

[Omega Doberman]

Nice //Beautiful dog too...

 

[Denissov43]

Danke Tina!! I have seen it in Black, pink, lime green, blue, red... so is colorful and it does not cause any damage to the ears or hair! keeps the ear covered but breathing as air passes through the "Vet wrap"

 

[Teufelhund in AZ]

Be VERY careful using vet wrap too!! It is more prone to shrinkage than tape.