11 month puppy super reactive to cars very suspicious of strangers

[Ravenbird]

It is so much work! I thought I was prepared. And I even prepared mentally for some puppy stubbornness. But Daisy exceeded all my expectations

Same. You do seem to have a relation to Asha.

I think my walks have been very inconsistent for a variety of legitimate reasons but if I can manage to do it almost daily I hope I will continue to see more consistent progress.

^^^ This! You have just realized one of the most important pictures of training!

I had a terrible time being consistent with Asha as a puppy - she was 4 months old when Covid began shutting things down. All the travels and exposures I'd planned for her first year went out the window. Looking back I can see lots of alternatives but at the time I didn't realize how badly this particular dog needed it.

It's definitely $$$ to trial or show, and even train with an instructor. But I find as long as I have a goal I do better at staying consistent and can see progress. Peruse the threads in the sports sections, just to see how much fun we have! I've dabbled in a bunch of things, but nose work and IGP training are my (and Ashas) favorites. Any dog can do nose work and you can do lots of that at home. It also wears them out mentally so it can take the place of physical exercise to make them feel like they've had a big day.

 

[Kaiser2016]

Asha is nesting and nesting and nesting some more, sleeps longer, and looks at her crate a lot - like thinking something is missing?

These details are amazing! I would never have guessed.

 

[Kaiser2016]

Daisy is 1/2 European and 1/2 American. I'm really wondering if some of what we're dealing with is partly genetics.

I was going to suggest she looked Euro and then I see you’ve already mentioned this. I’m pretty sure the extra crazy you’re seeing is due to the Euro type When Kaiser was a puppy we met a lot of American Dobes and Kaiser was the only one who never stopped moving The stubbornness too. And they are less sensitive to correction. Exercise can make a huge difference in their obedience too.

 

[Kswoodssue]

Our Sasha, female, is 13 months old. 3/4 European. While we have always been dog owners, she is our first Doberman and a challenge! She doesn’t have a mean bone in her body, but is certainly driven to be close to us, and is vigilant in all things. For us, she does best and is able to stay calmest with daily frisbee time and benefits greatly by riding with us in the truck whenever we can possibly take her. She needs both the mental and physical stimulation. Even just sitting in the truck, in the grocery store parking lot, gives her the chance to see different vehicles and people while out of her home zone. We were able to drive to Arizona and back from Ohio in December, stay in hotels, and manage not being kicked out. We are 65 and 66, so prong and e collar are life savers for us. My husband slept with the e collar control around his wrist in the hotels the first 3 nights, and after that she understood. Folks here remind me to stay on top of her behaviors and I am so thankful for them. Welcome! She is beautiful!

 

[Ukesox]

Sounds like you’re doing a good job Josette…you’ve just got to calmly stick with it.
My Luna (also a brown Euro) drove us to the edge of beyond & back with her reactive craziness & finally became
almost civilised at 3 years. Now at 4.5 years is practically an angel

 

[Kaiser2016]

My husband slept with the e collar control around his wrist in the hotels the first 3 nights,

The things we have to do

almost civilised at 3 years.

 

[Ravenbird]

My husband slept with the e collar control around his wrist in the hotels the first 3 nights, and after that she understood.

I'm so happy to know I'm not the only one! I mean, I seriously thought I could train a dog but this one brought me to my knees. Yeah, the remote under the pillow, the collar flashing all night long, the grumbles and explosive barking just when you finally fall asleep.... And yet here we are, I wouldn't trade this dog for the world. Not to mention how much she taught me.

 

[Josette]

e-collar training is not terribly complicated and is not a tool that brings on any anxiety if used correctly. Basically it allows you to communicate with your dog at a distance. One most important issue, if you decide to get one is do NOT get a cheap one! A good one will be over $100 and have at least 100 settings on it. Cheap ones usually only have 5 - 10 settings. This becomes a problem if 4 isn't felt at all and 5 makes them yelp. With 100, you can different settings useful for different occasions. For me it was the only option when we started traveling as Asha would do explosive barks in the motel room every time she heard a voice or a car door slam ALL night long. She learned that this was absolutely unacceptable and the last few times we traveled she was able to sleep naked. A few grumbles but no explosive barking. Because her barking is reactive and not much thinking behind it, I can't seem to prevent it 100%, but she KNOWS that if she does this at a motel, the price is higher than the pleasure of barking and she has made the decision to not do it.


I never knew either, this is the first intact bitch I've had. You are wise not to spay until 2 years old or older. I was totally fascinated by the cycling between heats and sure enough at about a week before "puppies" would be whelped and then for another couple of weeks, Asha is nesting and nesting and nesting some more, sleeps longer, and looks at her crate a lot - like thinking something is missing?

Well, you answered what would have been a new question before I asked it. I have seen randomly online people say not to buy a cheap e-collar but I hadn't been sure why. I wondered if it was just that they were working on longer distance recall as to why it was inconsistent for some. There were lots of good reviews on some inexpensive ones on Amazon and negative ones I couldn't tell why.

Last night Daisy was very interested in an emory board (our cat is obsessed with them too, I don't understand why) and wouldn't leave it. I think she was already enjoying it (took it out of an open drawer while I was using the bathroom) before I saw that she had it. She wouldn't leave it. I popped her mouth and she continued to go for it a couple of more times. I mostly remove the temptation but I had been trying to see if she would leave it. In exasperation, as though she understood me, I said, "You're getting a shock collar!" as though I was telling a kid to expect a spanking next time

I think I probably missed some other cues when Daisy was acting differently about her toy that I didn't know to look for at the time. That makes perfect sense though.

 

[Josette]

Same. You do seem to have a relation to Asha.


^^^ This! You have just realized one of the most important pictures of training!

I had a terrible time being consistent with Asha as a puppy - she was 4 months old when Covid began shutting things down. All the travels and exposures I'd planned for her first year went out the window. Looking back I can see lots of alternatives but at the time I didn't realize how badly this particular dog needed it.

It's definitely $$$ to trial or show, and even train with an instructor. But I find as long as I have a goal I do better at staying consistent and can see progress. Peruse the threads in the sports sections, just to see how much fun we have! I've dabbled in a bunch of things, but nose work and IGP training are my (and Ashas) favorites. Any dog can do nose work and you can do lots of that at home. It also wears them out mentally so it can take the place of physical exercise to make them feel like they've had a big day.

So I might have laughed out loud when you said I seemed to have relation to Asha. Your Asha is obviously very smart and talented and I hoped you wouldn't be offended by me saying that initially and calling Daisy pscho at the end But I swear just reading through some threads before I commented I laughed at some of your posts because they sounded like Daisy. I told my husband what you said to someone that you would want to lay down and die if you thought you had to train a puppy with Asha

When we were going to obedience training I saw that having a specific goal really helped me be more consistent and make at least some progress. Before we got Daisy, I always knew I wanted a dog that would take walks with me and spend time with me in the backyard. She wasn't tiny when I started working on walking her on the leash and she was pulling and making my shoulder and wrist hurt. We got the prong and she was still so reactive and it made me not want to push through and more often than I should I just let her enjoy exercise in the backyard. We have a decent but not huge backyard and she LOVES to run laps around a shop building we have back there. I figured she was getting better exercise that way. But, if I want to be walking partners with her I gotta keep at it. Thank you for your encouragement.

 

[Josette]

I'm so happy to know I'm not the only one! I mean, I seriously thought I could train a dog but this one brought me to my knees. Yeah, the remote under the pillow, the collar flashing all night long, the grumbles and explosive barking just when you finally fall asleep.... And yet here we are, I wouldn't trade this dog for the world. Not to mention how much she taught me.

I was going to suggest she looked Euro and then I see you’ve already mentioned this. I’m pretty sure the extra crazy you’re seeing is due to the Euro type When Kaiser was a puppy we met a lot of American Dobes and Kaiser was the only one who never stopped moving The stubbornness too. And they are less sensitive to correction. Exercise can make a huge difference in their obedience too.

I wish I knew more about how her siblings behave. We bought her from the sweetest people that aren't true breeders and we became facebook friends with them. I don't want to offend them by saying we have a psycho dog and asking if the siblings are They kept one of the puppies and they never tell any crazy stories about him. I think theirs get plenty of outside play time and they have both parents that their puppy has for interaction..I just mean they aren't the puppy's sole source of entertainment. I also think they don't try to take him for walks

The Dobermans my family had when I was young would have been American and the one I had before was American. There is just a different level of stubbornness in Daisy that was from very early on, not just something we brought on or allowed. It was IN her. Less so now, but she would want to check me when I corrected her and I'm like what???? My other Dobie was so eager to please and Daisy is super loving but she wants to do what she wants rather than being as concerned about pleasing me. After reading about the differences between American and European I have felt like it was likely that played a big role. She isn't big at all for a Doberman, just 60 lbs at 11 1/2 months (she was runt of the litter) but you can see the European influence in her face. To be honest, if we have have another Doberman, it will be American. I'm 58. I've raised up stubborn kids and now Daisy, I don't think I'll have it in me for another one

 

[Ravenbird]

I mostly remove the temptation but I had been trying to see if she would leave it. In exasperation, as though she understood me, I said, "You're getting a shock collar!" as though I was telling a kid to expect a spanking next time

Another thing about e-collars is they MUST understand what you are asking before you correct them with it. So if you say leave it and she doesn't know what "leave it" means and then you correct her with a stimulation she won't understand what the correction was for. This is where it's so important that you learn to use the collar correctly.

you would want to lay down and die if you thought you had to train a puppy with Asha

It's true. I couldn't handle a puppy right now even with Asha being 3 1/2 years old now. One at a time for me!

Thank you for your encouragement.

You are so welcome.

 

[Ravenbird]

There is just a different level of stubbornness in Daisy that was from very early on, not just something we brought on or allowed. It was IN her. Less so now, but she would want to check me when I corrected her and I'm like what???? My other Dobie was so eager to please and Daisy is super loving but she wants to do what she wants rather than being as concerned about pleasing me. After reading about the differences between American and European I have felt like it was likely that played a big role. She isn't big at all for a Doberman, just 60 lbs at 11 1/2 months (she was runt of the litter) but you can see the European influence in her face. To be honest, if we have have another Doberman, it will be American. I'm 58. I've raised up stubborn kids and now Daisy, I don't think I'll have it in me for another one

This is all true. For the longest time I thought I had to be doing something wrong, but she was born with an extra dose of cray-cray. I'm 65 and if I live long enough for another, I will definitely look at temperament... and I'm sure euros aren't all this way, but I know the 100% Am. show/pet lines don't have near this kind of personality. Asha stays between 65 - 68 lbs since turning a year old.

 

[Josette]

Our Sasha, female, is 13 months old. 3/4 European. While we have always been dog owners, she is our first Doberman and a challenge! She doesn’t have a mean bone in her body, but is certainly driven to be close to us, and is vigilant in all things. For us, she does best and is able to stay calmest with daily frisbee time and benefits greatly by riding with us in the truck whenever we can possibly take her. She needs both the mental and physical stimulation. Even just sitting in the truck, in the grocery store parking lot, gives her the chance to see different vehicles and people while out of her home zone. We were able to drive to Arizona and back from Ohio in December, stay in hotels, and manage not being kicked out. We are 65 and 66, so prong and e collar are life savers for us. My husband slept with the e collar control around his wrist in the hotels the first 3 nights, and after that she understood. Folks here remind me to stay on top of her behaviors and I am so thankful for them. Welcome! She is beautiful!

Daisy does have a mean bone but she is also the sweetest, most loving velcro dog and I really love that about Dobermans. I love so much about the personality of Dobermans. They're just my favorite breed ever, but I'm not nuts (and I know others will feel differently) about what i see as likely the European influence in my dog.

I haven't tried a frisbee with her. I will try that too!

It is good for Daisy when I take her out more often in the car. I did yesterday and I can see that seeing people, but with a safe distance is helpful for her. We live in South Alabama and much of the year its just too hot to leave her in the car if I have to go in somewhere for more than just a minute. It was already 78 or 80 degrees here yesterday. We live about 20-25 minutes from most places we need to go so I have to do all my running for the day once I leave the house and that makes it harder to take her. My son takes his dog and leaves her in the car with the AC running sometimes but my vehicle won't let me leave it running and lock it.

This group has been a great encouragement to me and like you said, helps me see I need to stay on top of her behavior. I think an e-collar is likely in our future. I see here that loving owners who want the best for them and their dogs use them.

 

[Two Dobes]

Your girl is beautiful! I love the lighter eyes, I am a huge fan of Red Dobes...currently own black & tans. Sounds as though you guys are working through this, and training is one of the best things you can continue to do for her and you. I personally think prong collars are helpful with harder dogs.....they are not cruel. If you are unable to continue to take classes, perhaps just working on simple things in the house...like the LEAVE it. Doesn't have to be 10 minutes of training, just turn everything into a lesson....make her wait for her food, or to go out the door...and if she is too rambucious; try some focus games to make her watch you. As said above; make YOU the most interesting fun thing in her life

 

[Josette]

Another thing about e-collars is they MUST understand what you are asking before you correct them with it. So if you say leave it and she doesn't know what "leave it" means and then you correct her with a stimulation she won't understand what the correction was for. This is where it's so important that you learn to use the collar correctly.


It's true. I couldn't handle a puppy right now even with Asha being 3 1/2 years old now. One at a time for me!


You are so welcome.

I feel pretty confident she knows what I want when I tell her leave it, she just doesn't want to do it. She will leave something for a minute and come right back to it. And keep coming back.

 

[Josette]

Your girl is beautiful! I love the lighter eyes, I am a huge fan of Red Dobes...currently own black & tans. Sounds as though you guys are working through this, and training is one of the best things you can continue to do for her and you. I personally think prong collars are helpful with harder dogs.....they are not cruel. If you are unable to continue to take classes, perhaps just working on simplegs in the house...like the LEAVE it. Doesn't have to be 10 minutes of training, just turn everything into a lesson....make her wait for her food, or to go out the door...and if she is too rambucious; try some focus games to make her watch you. As said above; make YOU the most interesting fun thing in her life

Thank you ❤ As a teenager, one of the Dobermans we had was given to us and I don't remember all the circumstances but she had been abused and required some extra attention. She slept with my brother every night. I would go in there to wake him up and she would have her legs outstretched and he would be hugged up to her between them. My brother isn't alive anymore and I've been partial to reds ever since. We had both growing up but I remembered more about her personality than the others.

I have such a hard time staying on top of all the things. I tend to stay on top of whatever seems the most urgent at the moment. And then if we're having a calm moment I'm just rejoicing in it I think I need to figure out some ways to work small moments of training into a routine. 2 weeks ago she cut herself on something in the back yard and we've just been trying to survive her not wanting to eat because of the antibiotics and then now that she's feeling better trying to get her enough walks without her being allowed to run We will take her stitches out tonight but won't be able to set her free until my son is able to come help my husband move some things that we hadn't realized were behind a building that we think is how she cut herself. I'm gonna be nagging him to come quick !

I'm going to google ways to teach leave it. I think we haven't practiced enough, but I need a refresher. I feel confident she knows what I want her to do she just doesn't want to do it. She will leave it for a minute but keep coming back.

I think I am the most interesting thing in her life, and her favorite, but not always the most fun

 

[Ravenbird]

I feel pretty confident she knows what I want when I tell her leave it, she just doesn't want to do it. She will leave something for a minute and come right back to it. And keep coming back.

Sounds like there isn't enough clarity about the command, and Daisy has that "make me" attitude that Asha was so bad about. I just posted a funny meme in the Off Topic Threads about this.

You need to practice this in a controlled setting with a marker for "good". I like a clicker or the word yes. Example would be (have her on a leash) - set a piece of food on the floor and when she looks at it say "leave it", draw her attention to your hand which has another piece of food and when she looks to you, click or say YES! and give her the treat in your hand. She looks back at the piece on the floor and you say Leave it! get her to look back to you, click and hand feed again. Repeat repeat repeat. If she lunges at the food on the floor, check her back with the collar sharply with a NO, then repeat Leave It, then when she looks to you, click and reward.

Make it a fun game, not a thing about corrections! Big party when she looks at you, correction if she won't leave the food on the floor. Chances are, with average items of interest she will learn super quick that you have something better so it's easy to leave it and look to you. In time you won't have to reward but it's good practice to reward for looking at you at any time. I got a treat pouch and kept it on me most all the time. I was also lucky that I could use plain kibble because she had super food drive. Treats get expensive and most are not that healthy for them to eat a lot of. In structured obedience I used her meals from my hand instead of in a bowl. There use to be some free videos on the Leerburg website with Micheal Ellis that were really really good.

Do try to use positive fun & play as rewards as much as possible and save the corrections for what I call "willful disobedience".

 

[Josette]

This is all true. For the longest time I thought I had to be doing something wrong, but she was born with an extra dose of cray-cray. I'm 65 and if I live long enough for another, I will definitely look at temperament... and I'm sure euros aren't all this way, but I know the 100% Am. show/pet lines don't have near this kind of personality. Asha stays between 65 - 68 lbs since turning a year old.

Yes, I think Daisy was born with a little extra cray-cray too Initially I wasn't sure how much was I was less prepared than I thought for a puppy but more and more i think she just has an extra dose of stubbornness. I've survived a kid with an extra dose of stubbornness (he's a wonderful young man now and the only one who can keep Daisy) and I learned then I couldn't let them win-ever (in the battle of wills I mean) and yet it is exhausting to be challenged so often. When she gets plenty of exercise and attention she is less annoying. Some days that is harder than others. I've gotten some great tips here though that I think will help me be more fun and keep her more tired

 

[Josette]

Sounds like there isn't enough clarity about the command, and Daisy has that "make me" attitude that Asha was so bad about. I just posted a funny meme in the Off Topic Threads about this.

You need to practice this in a controlled setting with a marker for "good". I like a clicker or the word yes. Example would be (have her on a leash) - set a piece of food on the floor and when she looks at it say "leave it", draw her attention to your hand which has another piece of food and when she looks to you, click or say YES! and give her the treat in your hand. She looks back at the piece on the floor and you say Leave it! get her to look back to you, click and hand feed again. Repeat repeat repeat. If she lunges at the food on the floor, check her back with the collar sharply with a NO, then repeat Leave It, then when she looks to you, click and reward.

Make it a fun game, not a thing about corrections! Big party when she looks at you, correction if she won't leave the food on the floor. Chances are, with average items of interest she will learn super quick that you have something better so it's easy to leave it and look to you. In time you won't have to reward but it's good practice to reward for looking at you at any time. I got a treat pouch and kept it on me most all the time. I was also lucky that I could use plain kibble because she had super food drive. Treats get expensive and most are not that healthy for them to eat a lot of. In structured obedience I used her meals from my hand instead of in a bowl. There use to be some free videos on the Leerburg website with Micheal Ellis that were really really good.

Do try to use positive fun & play as rewards as much as possible and save the corrections for what I call "willful disobedience".

Thank you! That is helpful. We use the word yes as that's what the trainer really wanted when we did obedience/manners class. I have not nearly often enough rewarded her for her brief leave it. We were able to use kibble but I think she's spoiled to some higher value treats. I have been meaning to order a better treat pouch, I've been using one that is one I already had that was for a phone but it doesn't stay as open as I would like. I don't treat typically throughout the day except for walks or behaviors she's still learning. I feel like in every message I keep saying...I need to do better at that

 

[Kswoodssue]

Thank you! That is helpful. We use the word yes as that's what the trainer really wanted when we did obedience/manners class. I have not nearly often enough rewarded her for her brief leave it. We were able to use kibble but I think she's spoiled to some higher value treats. I have been meaning to order a better treat pouch, I've been using one that is one I already had that was for a phone but it doesn't stay as open as I would like. I don't treat typically throughout the day except for walks or behaviors she's still learning. I feel like in every message I keep saying...I need to do better at that

I was cleaning treat crumbs out of my jeans pockets in the laundry room this morning. We have been practicing heal and working on her staying in a down by my chair while we eat. I walk around smelling like dog food all day!