Dog dies after United flight attendant forces it into overhead bin
- Thread starter JanS
- Start date
Tucker Carlson just covered this situation and his two guests hit upon some of the key points we've talked about here. Very good points:
GOD'S GRACE
Notable member
I love Mark...he is spot on with most things...
OMG So right on so many points! EVERYONE was wrong in this situation. The flight attendant didn't hear the passenger say that there was a dog in the overnight case? Seriously? Nobody heard the dog barking? They bring up good points about people being so fearful to speak up. I really get that, but honestly? If you really are certain that there is a dog in that overhead bag and you make a Ruckus, don't you think that the end result would be, oh my God, you're right! There's a dog in there?! Not an arrest? I mean, yes I'm sure people are afraid. They're afraid they're going to get dragged off the plane and they're going to get fined. But when they find out that you were right, what are they going to do to you? And if we are so afraid in this Society to speak up on a plane, there's something wrong here. I'm glad I don't fly. And I will never fly United!
Wasn't there something just last night on Southwest Airlines about a family being taken off a plane because their child was crying? I just caught the tail end of it so I don't know the whole story. But again, I shake my head at these Airlines. A crying baby? They could take you off the plane now because you're baby is crying? I mean yes it's annoying. But babies cry. I know this one looked more like a toddler but actually that should be better. You might be able to comfort her easier then an infant.
Mark Steyn said something particularly salient: If a flight attendant can't understand or hear someone proclaim a dog is in their bag, how can they hear someone lighting a match to set their shoes on fire?
Yes! That was a very good point.
I'm also wondering how old the passenger was that had this puppy in the bag? Hate to point fingers. But sometimes I think we are raising a generation of stupid people. Who doesn't know that you wouldn't put a live animal in that compartment? Who doesn't know that? Seriously? It just boggles my brain.
Kaiser2016
Well-Known Member
Lol they're all evil when they cry
and even more so on a plane because you're stuck on it with them. Babies seem to have more 'animal instincts' and if the parents are panicked, the kids react to it more. At least that's what my friend with kids says. Her hb is pretty authoritative and he is able to get them to settle down.
I better not ever get on a plane again then! We'll BOTH be wailing!!
I did hear the audio from this kid on the plane and the kid was obnoxious beyond what you've ever heard from a crying baby or spoiled toddler.
Oh I guess this is a different one I heard the audio from since the kid went at it steady for a whole 8 hour flight.
Kaiser2016
Well-Known Member
HolyI did hear the audio from this kid on the plane and the kid was obnoxious beyond what you've ever heard from a crying baby or spoiled toddler.
Oh I guess this is a different one I heard the audio from since the kid went at it steady for a whole 8 hour flight.
son of a .
The stuff of nightmares.
strykerdobe
Hot Topics Subscriber
Why More Animals Died on United Airlines Than Any Other Airline in 2017 — And Tips for Traveling With Your Pet
More animals died on United Airlines in 2017 than any other airline, according to the U.S. Department of Transportation’s February 2018 Air Travel Consumer Report, which details everything from flight delays and mishandled baggage to disability and discrimination complaints. There were four airlines with reported deaths, and on United Airlines there were 12 more animal deaths than the three others combined.
The numbers in this report reflect last year’s animal fatalities, injuries, and losses — and it doesn’t just pertain to dogs, but any animal flown, including cats and birds. The animals were either pets owned by U.S. families or animals being shipped on commercial flights (i.e. from a breeder). Here’s a look at the numbers:
Totals:
By the numbers, United flew more animals in 2017 than any other airline: 23,204 more than the next highest total number of pets flown (Alaska Airlines). And according to United Airlines spokesman Charles Hobart, the airline flies risky breeds that others, including Alaska, American, and Delta, won’t allow onboard. (Some airlines won’t fly pets in cargo at all, according to the DOT report, including Spirit, Virgin American, Southwest Airlines and JetBlue Airlines.)
“But you’ll notice that some of those animals — in fact a lot of them that died last year — were what is called brachycephalic breeds,” Hobart told TIME. “These are dogs that essentially have a very short nose — short muzzles. Most other carriers don’t fly those breeds.” Dog breeds that are brachycephalic, include Pugs, Boxers, Boston Terrier, Shih Tzu, and Pekingese. Some cats are also considered brachycephalic, including Persian, Burmese and Exotic Shorthairs.
These animals have a tougher time flying due to “smaller openings to their noses and elongated soft palates on the roofs of their mouths, which make breathing more difficult for them, veterinarians said,” according to a 2011 New York Times piece that detailed why these types of pets were being banned from airlines. Extreme heat and travel can also make it harder for these snub-nosed animals to breath.
Hobart contends that often United Airlines is the only option for these owners to fly with their pets, and he cited that roughly 3,000 military families used United Airlines’ PetSafe program for flying their pets in the cargo hold in 2017.
A detailed incident report of United Airlines’ pet deaths and injuries in 2017 (which the DOT report links to) shows that a slight majority of the dogs that died on a United flight were in fact brachycephalic breeds; there were also several other dogs, three felines, along with one bird and two geckos that died.
An in-depth analysis from the Washington Post found that from 2015 to 2017, 40% of dog deaths on United Airlines were high-risk breeds. Of the 85 pet deaths from 2015 to 2017, 41 were on United Airlines: 16 were high-risk breeds, 16 were other breeds, 5 were cats and the rest were other animals.
Still, there’s room for improvement.
The Humane Society of the United States’ acting President and CEO Kitty Block thinks that United Airlines needs to do a better job of handling those high-risk breeds.
“The fact is that while there is some risk with traveling with a brachycephalic breed on a plane, traveling with them in the cabin can be done safely if the right measures are taken by both the owner and the airline,” Block told the Post. “And that is what we’re asking for — that airlines take steps to reduce the risk of flying with pets, regardless of breed, as much as possible.”
Hobart, too, said that safely carrying pets is a priority for the airline, stating that United suspended its PetSafe program (with exceptions for military families, and those who made reservations prior to March 20) to do a “top to bottom review” of the policies by May 1. Certain pets will still be able to fly in the cabin.
“If you take away the brachycephalic breeds, if you take away the animals with preexisting conditions, that number would be incredibly low, and I would also state that when you look at the total number of animals flown, 140,000 [note: it’s 138,178], it’s still an astronomically low number of animals that suffer some sort of incident,” Hobart said of the report. “However, it’s high enough to concern us, suspend the service, and find ways to do it better. And it’s certainly a concern for our customers, and that’s who we’re looking out for when we do this.”
There is a debate over wether brachycephalic breeds should even be allowed to fly in cargo at all, the Times noted back in 2011. Between June 2005 and June 2011, 189 animals died in flight, and 98 of those were brachycephalic, according to the Times, which led to some airline bans. (The Times also notes that if dog owners want to fly these breeds, they can opt to use a pet airline like Pet Airways, which does charter flights and can cost a pretty penny.)
The Humane Society expressly says on its website not to ship brachycephalic animals in cargo.
Some airlines let certain pets fly in the cabin area, which the Humane Society recommends (but is lobbying against pets being held in an overhead bin). “Most airlines will allow you to take a cat or small dog in the cabin for an additional fee,” the organization explains on its website. “But you must call the airline well in advance; there are limits to the number of animals allowed in the cabin. If you are transporting a dog, make sure they meet the size requirements.” Airlines may charge a fee for bringing a pet into the cabin.
Related slideshow: How to travel with pets [via Fodors][img class="loaded" alt="Planes:
PetTravel or Bring Fido to find a complete updated list of each airline's rules, and to find out if your pet can travel in the cabin with you, or must travel with checked baggage. It is definitely important to book over the phone instead of online when traveling with an animal—questions should be asked in the early stages of booking.
Like medically certified service animals, comfort and therapy animals are accepted in the cabin on many airlines. A note from a mental health professional explaining that the owner should not be separated from his or her pet will usually suffice for obtaining permission, but you can find more info here.
In either case, you'll want to consider your pet's comfort—choose nonstop flights and don't go too far if you don’t need to, especially during extreme weather months. Many airlines do not accept pets who have been tranquilized, so choose a natural pet calmer if you have a nervous pet. Pre-flight care is equally important; keep your pet well-hydrated especially in the days leading up to the trip.
Paperwork-wise, know that all pets crossing state borders will need a rabies immunization and health certificate issued by your local veterinarian within 30 days of your trip.
More animals died on United Airlines in 2017 than any other airline, according to the U.S. Department of Transportation’s February 2018 Air Travel Consumer Report, which details everything from flight delays and mishandled baggage to disability and discrimination complaints. There were four airlines with reported deaths, and on United Airlines there were 12 more animal deaths than the three others combined.
The numbers in this report reflect last year’s animal fatalities, injuries, and losses — and it doesn’t just pertain to dogs, but any animal flown, including cats and birds. The animals were either pets owned by U.S. families or animals being shipped on commercial flights (i.e. from a breeder). Here’s a look at the numbers:
Totals:
- Total number of animals flown last year according to the DOT: 506,994
- Total number of animal incidents (loss, injury, death): 40
- Total number of animal deaths: 24
- Total number of animal injuries: 15
- Total number of animal losses: 1
- Total number of animals flown by United Airlines last year according to the DOT: 138,178
- Total number of animal incidents on United (loss, injury, death): 31
- Total number of animal deaths on United: 18
- Total number of animal injuries on United: 13
- Total number of animal losses on United: 0
- Total number of animals flown by American Airlines last year according to the DOT: 34,628
- Total number of animal incidents (loss, injury, death) on American: 3
- Total number of animal deaths on American: 2
- Total number of animal injuries on American: 1
- Total number of animal losses on American: 0
- Total number of animals flown by Delta Air Lines last year according to the DOT: 57,479
- Total number of animal incidents (loss, injury, death) on Delta: 3
- Total number of animal deaths on Delta: 2
- Total number of animal injuries on Delta: 1
- Total number of animal losses on Delta: 0
- Total number of animals flown by Alaska Airlines last year according to the DOT: 114,974
- Total number of animal incidents (loss, injury, death) on Alaska: 3
- Total number of animal deaths on Alaska: 2
- Total number of animal injuries on Alaska: 0
- Total number of animal losses on Alaska: 1
By the numbers, United flew more animals in 2017 than any other airline: 23,204 more than the next highest total number of pets flown (Alaska Airlines). And according to United Airlines spokesman Charles Hobart, the airline flies risky breeds that others, including Alaska, American, and Delta, won’t allow onboard. (Some airlines won’t fly pets in cargo at all, according to the DOT report, including Spirit, Virgin American, Southwest Airlines and JetBlue Airlines.)
“But you’ll notice that some of those animals — in fact a lot of them that died last year — were what is called brachycephalic breeds,” Hobart told TIME. “These are dogs that essentially have a very short nose — short muzzles. Most other carriers don’t fly those breeds.” Dog breeds that are brachycephalic, include Pugs, Boxers, Boston Terrier, Shih Tzu, and Pekingese. Some cats are also considered brachycephalic, including Persian, Burmese and Exotic Shorthairs.
These animals have a tougher time flying due to “smaller openings to their noses and elongated soft palates on the roofs of their mouths, which make breathing more difficult for them, veterinarians said,” according to a 2011 New York Times piece that detailed why these types of pets were being banned from airlines. Extreme heat and travel can also make it harder for these snub-nosed animals to breath.
Hobart contends that often United Airlines is the only option for these owners to fly with their pets, and he cited that roughly 3,000 military families used United Airlines’ PetSafe program for flying their pets in the cargo hold in 2017.
A detailed incident report of United Airlines’ pet deaths and injuries in 2017 (which the DOT report links to) shows that a slight majority of the dogs that died on a United flight were in fact brachycephalic breeds; there were also several other dogs, three felines, along with one bird and two geckos that died.
An in-depth analysis from the Washington Post found that from 2015 to 2017, 40% of dog deaths on United Airlines were high-risk breeds. Of the 85 pet deaths from 2015 to 2017, 41 were on United Airlines: 16 were high-risk breeds, 16 were other breeds, 5 were cats and the rest were other animals.
Still, there’s room for improvement.
The Humane Society of the United States’ acting President and CEO Kitty Block thinks that United Airlines needs to do a better job of handling those high-risk breeds.
“The fact is that while there is some risk with traveling with a brachycephalic breed on a plane, traveling with them in the cabin can be done safely if the right measures are taken by both the owner and the airline,” Block told the Post. “And that is what we’re asking for — that airlines take steps to reduce the risk of flying with pets, regardless of breed, as much as possible.”
Hobart, too, said that safely carrying pets is a priority for the airline, stating that United suspended its PetSafe program (with exceptions for military families, and those who made reservations prior to March 20) to do a “top to bottom review” of the policies by May 1. Certain pets will still be able to fly in the cabin.
“If you take away the brachycephalic breeds, if you take away the animals with preexisting conditions, that number would be incredibly low, and I would also state that when you look at the total number of animals flown, 140,000 [note: it’s 138,178], it’s still an astronomically low number of animals that suffer some sort of incident,” Hobart said of the report. “However, it’s high enough to concern us, suspend the service, and find ways to do it better. And it’s certainly a concern for our customers, and that’s who we’re looking out for when we do this.”
There is a debate over wether brachycephalic breeds should even be allowed to fly in cargo at all, the Times noted back in 2011. Between June 2005 and June 2011, 189 animals died in flight, and 98 of those were brachycephalic, according to the Times, which led to some airline bans. (The Times also notes that if dog owners want to fly these breeds, they can opt to use a pet airline like Pet Airways, which does charter flights and can cost a pretty penny.)
The Humane Society expressly says on its website not to ship brachycephalic animals in cargo.
Some airlines let certain pets fly in the cabin area, which the Humane Society recommends (but is lobbying against pets being held in an overhead bin). “Most airlines will allow you to take a cat or small dog in the cabin for an additional fee,” the organization explains on its website. “But you must call the airline well in advance; there are limits to the number of animals allowed in the cabin. If you are transporting a dog, make sure they meet the size requirements.” Airlines may charge a fee for bringing a pet into the cabin.
Related slideshow: How to travel with pets [via Fodors][img class="loaded" alt="Planes:
PetTravel or Bring Fido to find a complete updated list of each airline's rules, and to find out if your pet can travel in the cabin with you, or must travel with checked baggage. It is definitely important to book over the phone instead of online when traveling with an animal—questions should be asked in the early stages of booking.
Like medically certified service animals, comfort and therapy animals are accepted in the cabin on many airlines. A note from a mental health professional explaining that the owner should not be separated from his or her pet will usually suffice for obtaining permission, but you can find more info here.
In either case, you'll want to consider your pet's comfort—choose nonstop flights and don't go too far if you don’t need to, especially during extreme weather months. Many airlines do not accept pets who have been tranquilized, so choose a natural pet calmer if you have a nervous pet. Pre-flight care is equally important; keep your pet well-hydrated especially in the days leading up to the trip.
Paperwork-wise, know that all pets crossing state borders will need a rabies immunization and health certificate issued by your local veterinarian within 30 days of your trip.
Lobbying against pets being held in an overhead bin? You mean it's an actual practice?
Since I haven't been on an airplane since the early 80s, and have never flown a pet, where do they place a dog in a crate? Is it in the actual cargo area where your suitcases go? That's not heated or cooled, correct? I just don't quite see how a living creature can be put in a cargo area with suitcases. Gives me the heebie-jeebies. Seems like a highly stressful thing to go through. Maybe it's just me. Because being on the plane is a highly stressful thing for me! I can't imagine throwing my dog in a dark cargo area. Ain't going to happen.
Well, Schwarzenegger pulled it off in Commando. But then he also climbed out onto the landing gear and jumped off the airplane into a marsh. But he's a bit tougher than the average pet. Yeah, I am with you: I've always been a bit amazed that they put living animals in the cargo hold.Lobbying against pets being held in an overhead bin? You mean it's an actual practice?
Since I haven't been on an airplane since the early 80s, and have never flown a pet, where do they place a dog in a crate? Is it in the actual cargo area where your suitcases go? That's not heated or cooled, correct? I just don't quite see how a living creature can be put in a cargo area with suitcases. Gives me the heebie-jeebies. Seems like a highly stressful thing to go through. Maybe it's just me. Because being on the plane is a highly stressful thing for me! I can't imagine throwing my dog in a dark cargo area. Ain't going to happen.
I've done it on one round trip to NY with my first Dobe. I did worry about his stress and experience. Yes, you are correct: I remember getting a cab to Leguardia Airport and scooting the crate through the airport (thankfully not a long distance) only to find out that it was determined to be too cold for me to fly him. Uhhh, CABBIE! Can you wait up?!? Good times.
Oh, that would be great.
so I wonder what determines the cut off as far as temperature? Because I'm sure, while I'm just guessing, then it's actually colder up in the air. In a cold metal box.And I don't want to think about the summer.
GOD'S GRACE
Notable member
Here's a little info that might help some who fly...lots of questions here to ask before buying a ticket...older/smaller planes may not be an options
What temperature is it in the baggage hold?
What temperature is it in the baggage hold?
"Many are surprised to hear that the cargo hold in the belly of an airliner is pressurized. Conditioned air is directed from the cabin, so the air tends to be a little cooler by the time it reaches the cargo areas, which are also less insulated than the cabin. Cargo temperatures vary in our fleet. The Boeing 767 maintains its baggage hold above 7˚C, but the bulk area (where animals are carried) can be heated above 18˚C. Controlled temperature cargo bins are also available when temperature-sensitive goods are being shipped."
Interesting. So 64F. And at a constant I would presume? I guess that's not too bad. Are there lights??
So if a flight attendant or pilot would go in there for the whole flight, I might reconsider.
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