Von Willebrand's Disease

[Jacquie.t]

When I scheduled Angels spay appointment at my vet (I've used him for 18 years), the vet assistant Amy asked me if I knew about the clotting issue with the Doberman breed (VWD). Of course, this being my first Dobie, I had no idea. She told me the ins and outs so I opted to postpone the spay for a week and get the blood test to see if she is indeed a carrier. I just got back from the vet now and read through the information package they gave me on the disease. I know my vet would not have performed the spay without the test being done first and I have no argument about that either. Always good to know!

I was just wondering after reading up on it, if any other Dobie owners here have gone through that test or have a dog with it and what all they have had to go through or know first hand about it. The information says that it may not present until age four and Angel is just over 6 months so I am wondering if it will show now. If she is a carrier, would that mean she HAS the disease or just carry it with the POSSIBILITY of contracting it or passing it on to pups (although I wont be breeding her). I would have asked the Vet my questions today but he wasn't in. It was his vet assistants that did the blood work. Maybe I'm overly worried and shouldn't pay attention to the 70% "statistics" but being informed from actual owners and not studies, is a good thing!

 

[Dobs4ever]

Dobermans have Vwd type 1 which is a very mild case. Please scan and post here the info your vet gavbe you as it appears he is not as informed as he should be. Dong a blood test is the Elisa test which is very inaccurate as far as confirming Vwd. That is a DNA test done thorugh Vet Gen and only requires a cheek swab but is 100% accurate as far as the DNA goes. In fact it only gives you the clotting factor on the dat the test was done and there are several outside factors that can affect the results. So it really would need to be done the day of surgery to know the status at that time. A puppy wiht a low clotting factor on the day of surgery can be given a vitamin K shot to boost clotting.

Of the Doberman that are Vwd affected at best less than 5% are clinical affected meaning they will have an issue with it sometime during thier life time. Responsible breeders test for it so they do not produce affected puppies at all.

But before the test thousands of dogs were cropped, docked and spayed/neutered with no problems resulting from Vwd. There is however, that small chance you ave a clinical affected dog - Vets have successfully prayed on people concern and fear over this disease and raked in big bucks for test that for the most part are ineffective in totally in giving the true Vwd status.

You can go on line and order a DAN kit form Vet Gen Labs and do the test then send in the cheek swab to them and they will run the DNA and tell you if your dog is clear, carrier or affected.

I would call the breeder and see if the parents were tested and if so you have a better chance of knowing what yo might be facing. If they are both clear then no problems, if one is carrier and one is clear no problem. If one is affected and one clear no problem Carrier to carrier breeding usually produces approximately 50% affected puppies so only a test would tell you if you haveone of the affected puppies.

 

[Jacquie.t]

Well I wouldn't go so far as to claim my vet is preying on my fear to rake in bucks. I was my choice. I had my Pit Bull for 9 years who ultimately passed of a ruptured spleen do to cancer and he would always inform me of what was needed and not, never over billed or scheduled anything unnecessary BUT I do understand the point that you have made. I will scan the document and post it later but it does say as well that most that carry it, never have issues. I will do the DNA though...!

I did not purchase Angel from a breeder. I prefer to stay away from breeders and get rescue dogs. They need love too. Just my preference though. I have nothing against breeders or ppl who purchase from breeders .

I do know I may have over reacted to the "thought", but I have had a dog, that i loved extremely, pass away too early because I didnt spay her when I knew Cancer was in her bloodline, I just had a cousin pass away in a car accident and my mother is dying of Ovarian Cancer.... so I guess the fear of losing my Angel as well simply because I didnt take a "precautinary test" got the best of me. Now that you have told me that the blood test is not accurate, I will dive into more research (for my knowledge) and get the DNA package. Thanks so much for the information!

 

[BradysMom]

Hi Jacquie,

Definitely get ur pup tested! I was also unaware of this disease up until a few weeks ago and it was too late. My pup (almost 1yr old) needed surgery to remove a hemotoma and post-surgery was a headache. It also didnt help that the vet brought this to our attention AFTER he had done the surgery. He wanted to charge me $300 for a blood test to see if my Dobe had the disease then I was reffered by some1 here to purcahse the mouth swab test (which was wayyyyyyyyyyy cheaper). The link is somewhere on my theard "Bradys has a lump". I havent done it yet but I will before he has any other procedure done.

 

[Jacquie.t]

OMG!!!! THATS CRAZY!!!

I am going to do the DNA as suggested and I am very lucky that I was informed before. It was a newer vet assistant at the vet clinic that booked Angels appointment and said nothing about it then and hour later, Amy, the senior vet assistant called back to inform me of the possible issue and risk without the test. And the price you paid was WAYYYYYY more that what my vet charged. HOLY $#@% that's robbery! Angel's blood test was only $100.00 and when it was done they gave Angel a free bag of treats LOL.

I actually did look at your thread today!! poor pup! I had only got through half the tread before I had to take Angel for her test so I didn't see the complications. I just got as far as getting a second opinion, surgery and it being a clot (thanks for no pictures LOL)

How is your pup Brady now? Is there more procedures for the future??

 

[Dobs4ever]

WEll bless you for rescuing that baby and it is good to see he is geting excellent care. I still consider it a push for money when the elisa test doe snot give Vwd status. The two are not linked other than they both give indications if there could be a possible bleeding problem. There are other thngs that can cause clotting factors that have nothing to do with VWD.

If you got to DPCA.or they always have a clinic going on and you can save $50.00 on the test. It is normally 149.00 and with the clinic price you can have it done for 99.00 There is also a company called Vetnostics lab that does the DNA test for 65.00.

 

[BradysMom]

OMG!!!! THATS CRAZY!!!
I am going to do the DNA as suggested and I am very lucky that I was informed before. It was a newer vet assistant at the vet clinic that booked Angels appointment and said nothing about it then and hour later, Amy, the senior vet assistant called back to inform me of the possible issue and risk without the test. And the price you paid was WAYYYYYY more that what my vet charged. HOLY $#@% that's robbery! Angel's blood test was only $100.00 and when it was done they gave Angel a free bag of treats LOL.
I actually did look at your thread today!! poor pup! I had only got through half the tread before I had to take Angel for her test so I didn't see the complications. I just got as far as getting a second opinion, surgery and it being a clot (thanks for no pictures LOL)
How is your pup Brady now? Is there more procedures for the future??

Yea! that vet was sometin else! I'm just thankful the surgery part went well (according to the 3rd vet's opinion). I didnt pay the $300 I told him I could do that some other time.

Brady is doing muuuuuccccccchhhhhhhhh better!! After I took him to the animal hospital he's improved a ton! His wounds are almost all sealed up! and he wont be needing any other procedures, until its neutering time lol

 

[MicheleM]

It really amazes me about the number of people that bring Dobermans into their lives and haven't thought to research this breed before they bring them home.
If you google Doberman chances are right there in black and white are health problems. VW is not a big deal 99% of the time. There is one member here on the forum that has had an extreme case of VW and I have learned from her thread she posted
.
I think Dobs4ever gave you the best information and I agree with everything she has said on this thread. Anybody can test their Doberman for VW. Just contact Vetgen and they will send you a simple swab kit. Once again my opinion is that DCM is the health problem that people need to pay attention too.

FYI. There are people on this thread that have years and years of experience in this breed and if I had a health question this would be my first place to ask before I contacted my vets. My vets are great and I love them but they don't know everything

 

[Jacquie.t]

I still consider it a push for money when the elisa test doe snot give Vwd status. The two are not linked other than they both give indications if there could be a possible bleeding problem. There are other thngs that can cause clotting factors that have nothing to do with VWD.

I am defiantly going to raise that with my vet. Angel is going to my friends rescue ranch over the holidays and its a big rush to get her in for her spay before her first heat. If I wait till after the holidays she may heat by then. I leave in 5 weeks so she is scheduled for next week to ensure she is well healed by the time she goes to the ranch (she loves it there). I know there is no possible way that I can do the DNA in time so raising the issue of the blood test being inaccurate will be priority #1

Would you by chance have a link with some accurate info about the Elisa test that I could read up on?

 

[Jacquie.t]

It really amazes me about the number of people that bring Dobermans into their lives and haven't thought to research this breed before they bring them home.
If you google Doberman chances are right there in black and white are health problems. VW is not a big deal 99% of the time. There is one member here on the forum that has had an extreme case of VW and I have learned from her thread she posted
.

I think that is a bit of a harsh assumption about me as to what I have or have not done. I spent years on-line and and in book stores researching this breed, and a few others, to find the perfect "forever" pup for our family before I got Angel. I read about other issues but please excuse me if this seems to be one that I missed. I have not dismissed any advice and opinions given in this thread - quite the opposite. If I did not value the opinions and advice of the people in this community, I wouldn't have joined, let alone, posted the question.

 

[Dobs4ever]

The best place to start to really learn true things about Dobermans is the DPCA.org web site. There are articles upon articles from Doberman people about Dobermans. Vets like doctors go to school and learn general medicine. If they want to then become really good they specialize. Vets can't afford to specialize in one breed and each breed can be very different when it comes to health issues.

It is not their fault it is just the way it is and is why it is so important to work hand in had with people who actually know Dobermans.

But if a vet is informed enough to know about Vwd then he should well know that the Elisa test is not an accurate test for Vwd - only the DNA test is accurate on that one particular issue. Honestly in all my years breeding I do not know of one single Doberman who has died of Vwd. I don't even know one that has had a major issue with bleeding or had to have a tranfusion.

It is true as they get older it can become more of a factor but 99.9% of the time it is not fatal unless a very serious illness or injury occurs.

 

[Jacquie.t]

The best place to start to really learn true things about Dobermans is the DPCA.org web site.

Im on there now as you had mentioned them earlier. They wont have clinics in my area for this as Im in Canada but very useful information!! Thanks!

if a vet is informed enough to know about Vwd then he should well know that the Elisa test is not an accurate test for Vwd

I agree 100% so I will bring that up next week!!

Thanks a ton!

 

[Panama]

Very very few vWD Affected Dobes are "clinically affected"Ihave excessive bleeding problems).
vWD Carrier is no reason to postpone a procedure.

The Elise Essay test has such a broad overlap of status. Which is why it is not a reliable test. It tests the protein levels at the time the test is done, that's all. Protein level can change drastically from one hour to the next! Too many variables can alter the results. The DNA test is the only definitive test for vWD. DNA does not change

Years ago, I had a male Dobe that was vWD Affected, we did not know his status until he was almost a year old. He had no issues when he had his tail and dewclaws done. No issues when his ears were cropped. He had had multiple cuts and scrapes over the years with no excessive bleeding what-so-ever. No issues when he was neutered. He had 2 teeth extracted when he was 11, no excessive bleeding issues there. I was blessed to have that silly boy in my life for 13 1/2 years.

 

[Panama]

Im on there now as you had mentioned them earlier. They wont have clinics in my area for this as Im in Canada but very useful information!! Thanks!

I agree 100% so I will bring that up next week!!

Thanks a ton!

You call the person hosting the clinic, get their mailing address (or email address), pay them for the swab kit and they mail it to you. You swab the dog and send the swabs directly to the lab.

I've used both VetGen & Vetnostics. They are pretty quick getting the results back to you if you opt for email notification.

 

[Jacquie.t]

Years ago, I had a male Dobe that was vWD Affected, we did not know his status until he was almost a year old. He had no issues when he had his tail and dewclaws done. No issues when his ears were cropped. He had had multiple cuts and scrapes over the years with no excessive bleeding what-so-ever. No issues when he was neutered. He had 2 teeth extracted when he was 11, no excessive bleeding issues there. I was blessed to have that silly boy in my life for 13 1/2 years.

Awe.. too cute! Angel has had her tail docked, nips on the ears from the pups on the ranch and badly scraped her nose with her nails... never a bleeding issue. I brought that up when I took her in but the assistant had no answers and my reg vet wasn't there. I am pretty sure my girl is fine as well but I just ordered the DNA test through the site. I wont postpone the spay as I feel she will be fine based on all that has been said but... I just get paranoid sometimes. I am like that with my kids as well LOL

 

[Panama]

DNA test and get the results before the spay. Not knowing her status, I would be paranoid too!

 

[Tasha & Boris' Mom]

My dog has VWd.
Type one Vwd is most common but Dobermans can and do have all three evident by Tahsha's which is type III

Mouth swab is a DNA test and can only indicate that the dog is missing the factor. It is a unnecessary test if your dog is in fact missing the factor because the blood test will then have to be done to identify how severe the missing factor is. Von Willebrand is protein in the wihite blood cell that causes the blood to clot. DNA only indicates genetic make up and/or if the factor is missing or your a carrier.

Von Willebrand is not isolated to Dobermans but in fact effects over 50 breeds or dogs and cats as well as humans. The factor range can change from day to day so they typically take it from a major vein to get the best results and test it several times to make sure they have an accurate rate . Tasha tests out at 13% which means she only has 13% of the factor at the time of testing. It may be higher than that at times but at that point is was irrelevant when I am sitting with my lap covered in blood from a needle stick that didn't clot so we just moved on to a solution.

Surgery is possible as we experienced this last week when we had her spayed. She had a transfusion of plasma, we did not have to use the plasma with the Vwd factor in it because her level was high enough on the day of surgery that she clotted without it.

It was on hand in case it was needed it but we have to order it and it is very expensive so we have it "on ice" for right now at the blood bank. She had another complete transfusion after surgery and she has healed nicely but we have had a couple of bleeding episodes since the surgery but were able to control them.

It has been a long journey for us and will continue to be an issue but it is manageable.

I am a professional Clinical Therapist. I specialize in Neuro Chemistry and I have spent decades getting an education, doing internships and practicing in my field. I would never second guess another professional without being exposed to the patient and having the ability to access that person and their situation, person to person, so it confuses and amazes me when a Vet gives a professional recommendation for their patient and I hear people respond that they are uninformed, a rip off, or unprofessional and the the internet is a better and cheaper place to get qualified testing and information. Way unprofessional.

I would continue to encourage people that are not medical experts, meaning you haven't been to medical school, to find a Vet you trust and follow his/her instructions. Google has good information but is no substitution for a qualified professional that has spent years perfecting and practicing in their field of expertise and providing care. If you don't trust your Vet enough to follow his advice, get another one. Part of responsible ownership of a animal that depends on you for their safety and care is providing professional care - Rant over carry on

 

[Jacquie.t]

Tasha's Mom,

Please forgive me as I'm no so confused. I really do trust my vet. He has never steered me wrong which is why I have stayed with him for 18 years and recommended him to anyone who asks. It has also been made very clear from his clinical workers that they pay extra close attention to their Dobe's. I could go on about the many wonderful things that he does for animals and in the community but I will refrain . Just know when I say that he, and his office staff are truly one of a kind and often put the health of an animal before the all mighty dollar

This being said, am I to assume that the blood test is valuable but should have been done the day of the surgery and not the week before? Should the DNA test still be done and I postpone her spay until after I have the results . I already paid for it so I guess that is a mute point now. Im just scared postpone it because I lost a beloved pet to Cancer because I didn't fix her. If I wait Angel may go into heat and I know with every heat, her risk for breast cancer increases

Given your professional background and personal experience that you spoke of, I really value your opinion and look forward to some clarification

 

[Panama]

Never heard of a Dobe afflicted with Type III vWD. That's usually associated with Shelties and Scotties. Underlying issues such as poor thyroid function can create a problem with clotting also.

The vWD Affected male I had, he vWF was 19%
At the time, we were just learning about vWD, so we did the DNA test as well as time vWF at the vet's.
Zeus' vWF was 19% which they told me made him a "CARRIER"..... his DNA results were "Affected"
Jasmine's vWF was 128% and they said she was definitely "Clear". Her DNA results were "Clear"

 

[Tasha & Boris' Mom]

Tasha's Mom,

Please forgive me as I'm no so confused. I really do trust my vet. He has never steered me wrong which is why I have stayed with him for 18 years and recommended him to anyone who asks. It has also been made very clear from his clinical workers that they pay extra close attention to their Dobe's. I could go on about the many wonderful things that he does for animals and in the community but I will refrain . Just know when I say that he, and his office staff are truly one of a kind and often put the health of an animal before the all mighty dollar

This being said, am I to assume that the blood test is valuable but should have been done the day of the surgery and not the week before? Should the DNA test still be done and I postpone her spay until after I have the results . I already paid for it so I guess that is a mute point now. Im just scared postpone it because I lost a beloved pet to Cancer because I didn't fix her. If I wait Angel may go into heat and I know with every heat, her risk for breast cancer increases

Given your professional background and personal experience that you spoke of, I really value your opinion and look forward to some clarification

Let me explain what we did,
I have the same kind of vet, he is wonderful, specializes in Dobes and has for 40 years. I completly trust him.

Tasha was small so we started testing her about 10 weeks I believe, for her iron level to make sure she was not anemic for her ear surgery since she had worms so bad when we got her.

It was low for several weeks but finally got high enough so we scheduled the surgery. The morning I brought her in for the surgery we tested her blood once more to make sure her iron level was still good. The tech brought her to me and she was just laying in my lap waiting to be taken back and prepared for surgery. I looked down and my pants, her, the chair and a puddle on the floor of blood.

A tech walked by and I kinda yelled, it was way early in the morning everyone was still drinking their coffee so the tech hustled her up and put a bandage on the place where they had drawn blood and they took her back. About 45 minutes later I was at the Wal-Mart and the phone rang, It was Doctor Stuckey, he began to tell me that her iron was good but when he asked about the bandage doc decided to do a gum prick and her coagulants were low, so he ran a blood test and still they were low.

I was in the Wal-Mart and he tried to tell me it was ok but he felt we needed to test for the Vwd. I had heard about it but was not real clear on what it was so I of course said yes and went back to pick her up.

A week later all the results were in. She was in the 13% which is very very low so we scheduled her spay ordered plasma that I keep on hand at my house, I have arrangements with the Vet around the corner in case of injury that needs immediate transfusion until we can get her to the hospital. She has had several other bleeds over the last few weeks, most of them were losing teeth and one was a abrasion in her anus that scared me to death but they got it to stop so we are just careful with her and go on like normal.

To answer your question. The DNA is pointless other than for your own information. If your doc suspects there is a possibility then follow his advice and do what ever tests he recommends, with that said there is nothing wrong with asking what the test is for and why does it cost so much all those questions are reasonable what is not reasonable is getting a random test and taking it into your vet and asking him to define it for you. He is going to tell you he will have to check for himself. As for the spay ask him to make sure her coagulants are normal which can be done by a simple pin prick, let your doc know your fears, he will appreciate you for it. I am also sure he has pre-op things he does anyways to make sure everything is a go, so quit worrying it just turns your hair grey - Your a good mom - My thread is Tasha's journey you can read about all the things we have had to do.