Question to anyone who has ever bought or bred a dog.

[Ataro]

Hi Quee,

Actually I'm skipping all three, I just wanted to give an example of what I thought were bad responses which gave me no incentive to respond.

The first doesn't seem interested, the second is a blatant sales pitch (nope, they're not Italian - they're Greek and their website is all caps too and after checking their website there is no information of the females they intend to mate in their list of dogs), and that was the second or third email that I'd sent to #3 and they still don't use my name and if they have no idea about what a health contract or guarantee is - they're down right dodgy in my books (up to now, none of the 20+ breeders I've emailed has asked me to explain what that is).

 

[Dobs4ever]

Ataro - I swer when you get through with this you can write a book!!! I think you will have better luck when you visit in person. I have a friend who went to Italy last year and met the breeder Nobli Nati and had a lovely visit and then got a black femal about 7 or 9 months later. She was fortunate as her daugher married and Italion and lives over there.

So connections do help if there is a languarge barrier. At this point all I can say is good luck!!! We are pulling for you.

 

[Ataro]

Haha, maybe I should write a book! It'd be a black comedy about trying to find the right puppy without a clue in a foreign land.

 

[Quee]

Hi Quee,

Actually I'm skipping all three, I just wanted to give an example of what I thought were bad responses which gave me no incentive to respond.

The first doesn't seem interested, the second is a blatant sales pitch (nope, they're not Italian - they're Greek and their website is all caps too and after checking their website there is no information of the females they intend to mate in their list of dogs), and that was the second or third email that I'd sent to #3 and they still don't use my name and if they have no idea about what a health contract or guarantee is - they're down right dodgy in my books (up to now, none of the 20+ breeders I've emailed has asked me to explain what that is).

Makes sense to me - especially with a non-informative web site, and several e-mails sent with no information. Trust that gut instinct - sometimes it's the only thing that saves us from utter catastrophe!

 

[freem6]

I really don't think you can judge a breeder through their e-mails. Especially Euro breeders. A lot of Euro breeders I have talked to, have a lot of e-mails that they answer. My friend Lana says she is overwhelmed! I have found that until you establish a trust and relationship with a breeder in Europe they are wary and suspitious of buyers. It took me 2 months to gain Lana's trust enough for her to allow me to put a deposit on one of her upcoming puppies.
Euro Breeders are not as "Lovey Dovey" at first. You can't really tell, especially with the broken english, what they are really like.
Also some of the breeders have more buyers then puppies so they can be picky about who buys their puppies.
When I was breeding working Aussies, I would definately tend to choose a buyer who wasnt as concerned about price since they were more likely able to afford the best care (food, heartworm/flea meds, health testing, etc...) and afford the high cost of trialing the dog. I wanted the best life for my puppies.

So, my point is.... be patient and a little forgiving to some of these breeders. I think you will have better luck once you are over there and can talk to some of them in person. Don't judge them only from their e-mails. I think the language and cultural barrier is a problem you are having here.
Just remember your key points in choosing a breeder, (Health testing, etc....) ( and remember they may not call it "health testing")
Good luck!
Tammy

 

[Katja Henriksen]

I really don't think you can judge a breeder through their e-mails. Especially Euro breeders. A lot of Euro breeders I have talked to, have a lot of e-mails that they answer. My friend Lana says she is overwhelmed! I have found that until you establish a trust and relationship with a breeder in Europe they are wary and suspitious of buyers. It took me 2 months to gain Lana's trust enough for her to allow me to put a deposit on one of her upcoming puppies.
Euro Breeders are not as "Lovey Dovey" at first. You can't really tell, especially with the broken english, what they are really like.
Also some of the breeders have more buyers then puppies so they can be picky about who buys their puppies.
When I was breeding working Aussies, I would definately tend to choose a buyer who wasnt as concerned about price since they were more likely able to afford the best care (food, heartworm/flea meds, health testing, etc...) and afford the high cost of trialing the dog. I wanted the best life for my puppies.

So, my point is.... be patient and a little forgiving to some of these breeders. I think you will have better luck once you are over there and can talk to some of them in person. Don't judge them only from their e-mails. I think the language and cultural barrier is a problem you are having here.
Just remember your key points in choosing a breeder, (Health testing, etc....) ( and remember they may not call it "health testing")
Good luck!
Tammy

I see what you are saying but I also think there is a difference in whether it's northern Europe, Southern Europe or Eastern Europe. The three pars are all quite different and there will be a difference in how they are to deal with. I think what you are saying would fit Southern and Eastern parts but not the northern parts. That is not my experience anyway. I am onto recognising any of this and what Ataro is dealing with when we were looking for puppies in England, but maybe I was just lucky. I also don't have the sense this is the case in the rest of Northern Europe. Maybe they are just easier people to deal with or more like Americans?

 

[Ataro]

I really don't think you can judge a breeder through their e-mails. Especially Euro breeders. A lot of Euro breeders I have talked to, have a lot of e-mails that they answer. My friend Lana says she is overwhelmed! I have found that until you establish a trust and relationship with a breeder in Europe they are wary and suspitious of buyers. It took me 2 months to gain Lana's trust enough for her to allow me to put a deposit on one of her upcoming puppies.
Euro Breeders are not as "Lovey Dovey" at first. You can't really tell, especially with the broken english, what they are really like.
Also some of the breeders have more buyers then puppies so they can be picky about who buys their puppies.
When I was breeding working Aussies, I would definately tend to choose a buyer who wasnt as concerned about price since they were more likely able to afford the best care (food, heartworm/flea meds, health testing, etc...) and afford the high cost of trialing the dog. I wanted the best life for my puppies.

So, my point is.... be patient and a little forgiving to some of these breeders. I think you will have better luck once you are over there and can talk to some of them in person. Don't judge them only from their e-mails. I think the language and cultural barrier is a problem you are having here.
Just remember your key points in choosing a breeder, (Health testing, etc....) ( and remember they may not call it "health testing")
Good luck!
Tammy

Tammy,

I don't want to be critical of Lana, but honestly after speaking to her I became a little put off because she kept talking about these dogs being investments. I asked her about the price thing as well, and she said she didn't people who asked about prices sent up red flags, and said that training etc. is very expensive (actually in Germany, if you join a dog sport club it's not expensive at all - I intend to train with my dog (it's fun!) not send her off to some school to be trained for me. She also has the prices stated on her website, so I don't know why someone would want to talk prices unless they were trying to be shifty and bargaining or something. I pointed this out to her, and she still hasn't replied.

Secondly, most of the breeders I've emailed actually have quite good English, or they have someone correspond in English for them. I've yet to meet a lovey dovey breeder from any country, but in my opinion they should at least be willing to respond. I've also had some better emails from people with quite limited English - if there were any misunderstandings, I just asked them to clarify. And with the German/Spanish/French, well then there's just no excuse at all, as I'm writing to them in their own language.

 

[Ataro]

I see what you are saying but I also think there is a difference in whether it's northern Europe, Southern Europe or Eastern Europe. The three pars are all quite different and there will be a difference in how they are to deal with. I think what you are saying would fit Southern and Eastern parts but not the northern parts. That is not my experience anyway. I am onto recognising any of this and what Ataro is dealing with when we were looking for puppies in England, but maybe I was just lucky. I also don't have the sense this is the case in the rest of Northern Europe. Maybe they are just easier people to deal with or more like Americans?

If I had to put it on the map, I'd say the best responses I've gotten so far are from Hungary and Poland on average. The southern parts have generally been a bit too concerned with money for my liking, and I've read quite a few things about pedigrees etc. being faked in Serbia, so I'm being quite cautious with that country in particular. I haven't dealt with many northern European breeders though, so I can't really judge them just yet.

 

[freem6]

I also think of my dogs as investments. But I show and trial my dogs. I have a lot of time and money invested in them all. And that is with me doing all the training. Thats ok though, you just need to find a breeder that fits you. Lana and I just click together.

 

[Ataro]

I do intend to show and train this dog, but I was talking about investments in terms of breeding. She talked a lot about how you can't get rich in the dog business without spending a lot of money...

 

[freem6]

I do intend to show and train this dog, but I was talking about investments in terms of breeding. She talked a lot about how you can't get rich in the dog business without spending a lot of money...

Thats weird because she says the opposite to me. She has said repetedly on FB even that she is not in it to get rich.
Thats ok, there are a lot of great breeders out there to talk to. Just pick one that feels right to you.

 

[Ataro]

At first she said that most famous kennels overcharge even though you can get the same quality from a smaller kennel - she sounded ethical in the first few emails, then she started going on about how I shouldn't care about prices because you have to invest to get rich (I guess she assumed I wanted a female specifically for breeding, not just because I already have another female). If you doubt what I'm saying I can forward you the emails, she goes on a lot about how she lost a lot of money breaking into the business but now she's made a name for herself and is able to command high prices because of it and how she gets a special deal from breeders in Europe that she imports puppies from, because she brings them business in return.

 

[freem6]

Thats ok I know what she is saying. It's just her poor english and she is not meaning what you think she means. I have talked to her many,many, many times

 

[Ataro]

Well, I hope it works out for you and if you feel comfortable with her that's good. I've been teaching English as a foreign language for several years, and from my experience I can say that her English is not that bad that she wouldn't know the meaning of "it's all about the money", a phrase she's used herself several times.

 

[freem6]

Did you try Caresi, or Perlanera Dobermanns? Both have websites.

 

[Ataro]

Caresi shows their last litter as being last year and I contacted them, they never got back to me. Perlanera docks their dogs' tails and leaves them naturally only by reservation - they wouldn't be able to tell puppy quality at a few days old, and I need a natural puppy (no ifs or buts about it), because apart from the fact that I prefer them that way, you can't show C&D dogs in Germany and Australia, and increasingly more European countries are changing their rules to the same as well.

 

[freem6]

darn! I'm just striking out with you today!

 

[Ataro]

No worries, I do appreciate your help

 

[Denissov43]

Ataro: I have spoken to and dealt with Noblesshof, Tira Vento, and found them very easy to deal with and quite helpful, Noblesshoff more so than Tira Vento, but Tira Vento has very little english, She is quite nice and I think she really is professional, but she responds minimally because of her english issues. I imported my male from Dura Lux Polonia and they also sold a fellow Doberman Chat member "Cathy" a female from the same litter and we both agree that they are STELLAR to deal with...
I also imported a female from Pride of Russia... have spoken to in email several of the others you have mentioned here and some were less than helpful and some where very professional.
Lazodobie was very approachable and helpful, King of Darkness is french and she had a bit of a language issue as I speak no French, Haus Lioporis is greek and he is very approachable and easy to speak too and I have emailed him several times and have him as a friend on Facebook on my group.
The others I have either also contacted and got nothing in return or less than helpful replies and all are suspect of American's and all of them think we are rich and can afford to pay more for a puppy than their fellow European buyers. They usually charge at least a few hundred Euro's more to us and some price them really high if they know you are from the USA.

 

[Ataro]

Ataro: I have spoken to and dealt with Noblesshof, Tira Vento, and found them very easy to deal with and quite helpful, Noblesshoff more so than Tira Vento, but Tira Vento has very little english, She is quite nice and I think she really is professional, but she responds minimally because of her english issues. I imported my male from Dura Lux Polonia and they also sold a fellow Doberman Chat member "Cathy" a female from the same litter and we both agree that they are STELLAR to deal with...
I also imported a female from Pride of Russia... have spoken to in email several of the others you have mentioned here and some were less than helpful and some where very professional.
Lazodobie was very approachable and helpful, King of Darkness is french and she had a bit of a language issue as I speak no French, Haus Lioporis is greek and he is very approachable and easy to speak too and I have emailed him several times and have him as a friend on Facebook on my group.
The others I have either also contacted and got nothing in return or less than helpful replies and all are suspect of American's and all of them think we are rich and can afford to pay more for a puppy than their fellow European buyers. They usually charge at least a few hundred Euro's more to us and some price them really high if they know you are from the USA.

Thanks for your input, I crossed Noblesshof off my list because they don't have a health guarantee apart from teeth/testicles. Tira Vento's owner actually speaks English really well? Maybe you're mixing her up with the owner of Dura Lex Polonia - both sound reasonable to me but I'm still waiting to hear more details from them. I'm not really sure I'd go with DLP because I don't really like the bitch they're planning to breed. I'm not going to import a dog without meeting the people and going there, so Russia because of visa restrictions etc. is completely out of the question, as is Belarus and the Ukraine. Lazodobi was helpful and professional as well, but I'm not very interested in their upcoming litters either. The King of Darkness kennel as far as I know is Hungarian, although I've not tried to speak to her in French if she is from France originally... waiting to hear back for more details as well. I didn't really like the approach of Haus Lioporis or their upcoming litters. So far, I have to admit, most weren't that accommodating or haven't bothered answering... you're right about that.

...I'm not from the US, so I would hope they don't judge me as being from there. I'm guessing apart from the Greeks (Melbourne is the biggest Greek city outside of Greece), not too many of them have much contact with Australians, which is why I'm getting lower price quotes (in the 800-1300€ range apart from Betelges, Perlanera, and Lioporis who quoted 1500€). Of course, price is not the determining factor for me, but I refuse to pay top dollar if I know I can get the same quality (and almost an identical pedigree) for less, just because the kennel is not as famous.

The kennels I'm currently considering (in order of preference, assuming they have a health guarantee): Ramonburg's, Tira Vento, King of Darkness, Centipede, Dura Lex Polonia ... maybe Hunnoterra or Devil Inside as well but I need more information from them.