Emergency: Newborn Pup Screaming

[Quee]

Oh dear, that is dreadful! Has the mom been checked to make sure that she's okay and healthy and doesn't have issues of her own? I don't think I asked earlier either, but how many puppies total are in this litter? Maybe there are too much for the mom to handle and she's overwhelmed? Gosh this is just so sad I wish I knew more to be able to help! Bless you for doing what you can.

 

[Dobs4ever]

I have to say I hate reading about a puppy suffering this much. Part of breeding is taking care of the problems and they are not always easy decisions. I do not think rescues or special needs need another puppy that does not have a good chance at a happy pain free normal life. No puppy should suffer screaming for two days. Now the mom is killing puppies.

This person should not be breeding either They are poorly prepared and not giving proper care obviously. JMHO.
It is not for those who are too busy or think that rescues is where they can dump the problems.

I agree - BLESS you for doing what you can. Hopefully you can convince them to never breed again.

 

[Quee]

I have to say I hate reading about a puppy suffering this much. Part of breeding is taking care of the problems and they are not always easy decisions. I do not think rescues or special needs need another puppy that does not have a good chance at a happy pain free normal life. No puppy should suffer screaming for two days. Now the mom is killing puppies.

This person should not be breeding either They are poorly prepared and not giving proper care obviously. JMHO.
It is not for those who are too busy or think that rescues is where they can dump the problems.

I agree - BLESS you for doing what you can. Hopefully you can convince them to never breed again.

This is why I would never become a breeder unless I could devote 100% of my time to the parents and each and every litter with no distractions.

I hate to say it but I'm thinking along the same lines as you d4e - this is sounding unfortunately like a byb horror story unfolding. Thank goodness Caloni is there to help with one pups issue but it sounds like there are more issues with that situation that are completely out of her control. This whole situation is a crying shame.

 

[Quee]

On another note it's probably good that Angel didn't take to her mommas milk given the latest developments. I wonder if instinctually she knew that mom was a danger?

I wouldn't let any of the pups nurse from mom and would immediately switch the survivors over to the milk that Angel is getting to reduce impacts to their developing tummies. Rather that than have mom try to kill any more of the pups I think.

 

[gettinggreyer]

Now the mom is killing puppies.

When I was a kid, I was told if the Mom is killing the puppies, they are unhealthy.
I don't know if this is true or not. Sad that the pup has to suffer so long.

 

[Dobs4ever]

Thank you Quee - I have bit my tongue from the beginning on this one knowing it would not be a popular decision but when it came out that they would just send it off to special needs like they need another dog with problems I just could not continue to bite my tongue.

In over 20 years I have had to make that decision 3 times and it is never easy but it was right and I never looked back. A puppy injured so badly that it screams for two days is not going to have a miraculous recovery and live a trouble pain free life. I am truly sorry for all concerned but mostly for those poor dogs.

Yes all animals will kill the unhealthy but usually it happens much soon than in this case. They know close to when the puppies are born. I believe part of this is due to the stress placed on the dam due to the screaming puppy.

 

[Jazzycan]

Poor little pup..
Hope she pulls though all this.
Thanks for the updates

 

[Tasha & Boris' Mom]

Sorry to hear your going through so much. I am torn now that so much love has been poured into this baby now but I really think it should have not been put through so much. Nature has it's own rules and we sometimes interfere with that process and in the attempt to help we hurt. Regardless the reasons a this point the remaining puppies need to be removed from the mom and this mommy needs to retire from having puppies. As for your friend if she is not willing to accept, raise and provide for puppies that are not perfect, need special care and are not marketable then she needs to take up a new business. I don't mean to be harsh but they are not marketable products they are living breathing feeling animals that are totally dependent on their owners. If she is still around when we get into our home I will take her and raise her with my other special babies but she has to promise she won't breed this female anymore.

 

[Dobs4ever]

Nature has it's own rules and we sometimes interfere with that process and in the attempt to help we hurt. Regardless the reasons a this point the remaining puppies need to be removed from the mom and this mommy needs to retire from having puppies. As for your friend if she is not willing to accept, raise and provide for puppies that are not perfect, need special care and are not marketable then she needs to take up a new business. I don't mean to be harsh but they are not marketable products they are living breathing feeling animals that are totally dependent on their owners

Very well stated Mel....you have come a long way!!!

 

[Tasha & Boris' Mom]

Very well stated Mel....you have come a long way!!!

Thank You Suzan.

 

[Caloni]

Oh dear, that is dreadful! Has the mom been checked to make sure that she's okay and healthy and doesn't have issues of her own? I don't think I asked earlier either, but how many puppies total are in this litter? Maybe there are too much for the mom to handle and she's overwhelmed? Gosh this is just so sad I wish I knew more to be able to help! Bless you for doing what you can.

NO, and she really needs to take the other puppy involved to the vet, and she hasn't, and the mom, and the dad she breed to (guess he's loosing hair now) and the other male who won't eat hardly anything! Again, I'm totally frustrated.

 

[Caloni]

Very well stated Mel....you have come a long way!!!

I TOTALLY agree with you. She said that she will spay the mom, but honestly, I'll believe it when I see it. The mom has been pregnant all of the last 4 heat cycles with NO break in sight. Large litters of 10-12 with at least 1 puppy dying per litter, the runt and maybe the next smallest one due to there not being enough milk or a nipple available. She is stressed out beyond belief I am sure, but no one noticed it till now. I am not there that often so I can only tell what I see when I am there, and she seems happy, but that may not reflect what she is feeling as a mama on the inside.

Right now she is muzzled and being watched for feedings of the pups till they are weaned and then crated between feedings. I wouldn't do it this way, but I don't have input, and my resources and time to help out are wearing thin.

 

[Caloni]

I have to say I hate reading about a puppy suffering this much. Part of breeding is taking care of the problems and they are not always easy decisions. I do not think rescues or special needs need another puppy that does not have a good chance at a happy pain free normal life. No puppy should suffer screaming for two days. Now the mom is killing puppies.

This person should not be breeding either They are poorly prepared and not giving proper care obviously. JMHO.
It is not for those who are too busy or think that rescues is where they can dump the problems.

I agree - BLESS you for doing what you can. Hopefully you can convince them to never breed again.

I fear my words are just falling on deaf ears. Either that or I may loose a friend if I push too far. I hate being put in this type of a situation. I want to help the puppies, but I don't want to enable anyone to repeat this situation EVER again.

 

[JanS]

I understand your frustration here Caloni, and I would be too, but you're trying to help and do what's best and I give you a big thumbs up on it. I'm glad they plan to spay the female and hopefully they will go through with it so they don't keep doing this.

 

[Quee]

NO, and she really needs to take the other puppy involved to the vet, and she hasn't, and the mom, and the dad she breed to (guess he's loosing hair now) and the other male who won't eat hardly anything! Again, I'm totally frustrated.

How did your friend come to get into breeding in the first place? It sounds like she's not taking care of the very basics of health for the mom and dad, and it all goes downhill from there if you don't take care of the parents - especially the mom. Is it that your friend is not knowledgeable, doesn't have the resources, is overwhelmed/over their head?

I hate to say it and be harsh, but your friend really sounds like a typical and terrible back-yard-breeder. While there are much worse I'm sure, on the spectrum of great to good to bad to horrendous, your friend sounds pretty bad to me. I'd wonder if the parents are health tested at all, and what state the mom is in for breeding given that she's been pregnant nonstop. Sounds like it's a pretty tough life for the mom. Friendship be damned - I draw the line at making or letting animals suffer (or babies or the elderly or vulnerable), and if I suspected any of my friends of such the friendship would be over from my point of view. I'd probably find some way to get an intervention of some sort going.

 

[Tasha & Boris' Mom]

I TOTALLY agree with you. She said that she will spay the mom, but honestly, I'll believe it when I see it. The mom has been pregnant all of the last 4 heat cycles with NO break in sight. Large litters of 10-12 with at least 1 puppy dying per litter, the runt and maybe the next smallest one due to there not being enough milk or a nipple available. She is stressed out beyond belief I am sure, but no one noticed it till now. I am not there that often so I can only tell what I see when I am there, and she seems happy, but that may not reflect what she is feeling as a mama on the inside.

Right now she is muzzled and being watched for feedings of the pups till they are weaned and then crated between feedings. I wouldn't do it this way, but I don't have input, and my resources and time to help out are wearing thin.

Cal I didn't mean to be harsh to you, I know your going above and beyond trying to help. I am serious about taking her. We have another couple of months on this lease then we will be in a regular house and if she is still needing a home I will take her. I cringe at the thought of her going to a shelter because she needs special care and we already live with Tasha's issues so one more will just make it a party.

 

[Dobs4ever]

This is every good breeders nightmare. Regardless of how much we care and try to educate there are folks out there like this example who breed only for the money with no care for the well being of the dogs involved or their health.

These are the people folks should slam instead of those who strive do their very best by the dogs, their families and by the puppies. This is a worse case of breeding and these folks should not even own guppies JMHO.

I could not consider someone friend who does this to Dobermans. Some folks just have to be hit over the head before they get it. Good thing I don't know them ......because they would get a good dose of reality.

 

[Quee]

This is every good breeders nightmare. Regardless of how much we care and try to educate there are folks out there like this example who breed only for the money with no care for the well being of the dogs involved or their health.

These are the people folks should slam instead of those who strive do their very best by the dogs, their families and by the puppies. This is a worse case of breeding and these folks should not even own guppies JMHO.

I could not consider someone friend who does this to Dobermans. Some folks just have to be hit over the head before they get it. Good thing I don't know them ......because they would get a good dose of reality.

I couldn't agree more D4E!

 

[Gelcoater]

I fear my words are just falling on deaf ears. Either that or I may loose a friend if I push too far. I hate being put in this type of a situation. I want to help the puppies, but I don't want to enable anyone to repeat this situation EVER again.

Refrained from posting in here so far but I have been following along.
I have to agree with the others here.Without trying to sound harsh or uncaring,if you don't do something about this you will probably be in the situation again.
Some serious soul searching,you must do as to who this person really is and why they're your friend.
Is your friendship worth the bad health of what sounds like dozens of pups already produced as well as the dozens more that will probably be produced?
I don't envy your position,and wish you good luck how ever you decide to deal with it.

 

[Quee]

So not to start a riot here, but this is while I am smack dab in the middle in my opinion on the AR groups like PETA. I've used PETA before in situations where the abuse was so dire, that any reasonable person would find any means necessary to get the animals out of the abusive/life-threatening situation that they're in. I don't always agree with PETA or other AR groups methods, or their habit of throwing all good and bad folks under the bus in their efforts to classify all breeding as 'bad'.

But in a situation like this, if it was me and I had no other method of dealing with this situation - like calling local shelters/rescue groups, then law enforcement and/or animal control, I would probably call an AR group and probably PETA, to see if they could mobilize an intervention group. They are very good at doing that, and have a wide-ranging reach into communities that can be useful.

That said, I do not condole the AR's 'all or nothing' approach to meat eaters (I will always be one and I'm a hunter too), leather/fur wearers (I will always have and wear both), and breeding animals (I'm 100% supportive when the breeders do their due diligence, and take great care of the animals they're breeding and raising). But I do agree with their stance on abuse of animals, and when abuse is proven I think their approach to stopping it can be very effective.

Caloni - the steps above are what I meant by 'intervention' and the more I think about it, the more I'm sure I'd see if intervention could be staged - starting with local shelters/rescue groups, then maybe law enforcement or local politicans, then (very) last resort an AR group.

Before any of these though I'd have a heart-to-heart talk with my friend and ask them what they're thinking and plans for the current situation, and any future breedings as well as what their plans are for getting the mom and pop the health care they need as they sound like they may be suffering.