I was going to say, it does work the other way - opposite of sticking to your guns like I did. Ripley is the best for sure!
Litter Dilemma
- Thread starter StateOfMine
- Start date
Holter and echo too? Sorry to push this, but its the #1 issue in the breed. I just want to be sure for you!
I'm incredibly sorry to hear that. That's so sad to hear. I understand the concern, just repeating what I've heard from others that have been in the breed for many decades. I'm sure there are rare cases like your girl and I don't mean to make light of the situation, just repeating what others told me, that it is rare for an affected doberman to be clinically affected where they bleed out and die.
But, 60% or more of all dobes, both genders, are carriers, I don't think its really that simple, unfortunately.
Not with DCM also affecting up to 50%+ of the breed... So 40% are either affected or clears, and not all of those are going to be a stud. Now you need a stud that also has longevity in its lines, AND fits what you are looking for in conformation and bite sports/sports and temperament AND health... I guess you have to pick your battles if it came down to it. Not saying if a breeder has two sires that are equally matched and one is clear the other carrier that they shouldn't choose the clear dog, that is a given. Just saying, I don't think its as easy as it sounds. The breed is already in trouble as it is with DCM bottlenecks.I've heard most live completely normal lives, never would have any issue, you would never know either. Ears cropped, tails docked, had litters, spayed/neutered. Usually never an issue. There are 3 different types of vWD and dobermans have Type 1, the mild form. You can be sure that your vet carries FFP or Cryo just in case they were to need it in an emergency. Your vet will most likely do a clotting test before any surgeries. Not downplaying vWD at all, I suppose theres always a small chance that this puppy could be clinically affected, but then theres always a small chance any breed of dog could bleed out in surgery... just repeating what I've heard. Ultimately, it is up to you and these are all good statements to take in to weigh your options. Only you can decide what feels right.
Kaiser2016
Well-Known Member
Curious as to whether you've made a decision yet?
StateOfMine
Hot Topics Subscriber
Waiting on the next litter. She was due on the 30th but nothing yet.
Having the same birthday with my dog would be cool. But I think I'd rather have options to choose from for temperament since genetics is still a lot if guesswork even with results.
StateOfMine
Hot Topics Subscriber
Well new litter came. 3 males available, but only 1 black. The other two are red. I told her I'd be interested in the black one first, and if he didn't perform well in the temperament test I'd like to test the other two reds and would be fine taking one of them instead.
I'm new to this, so please weigh in. She said I basically need to pick either black or red and I wouldn't be able to change it later. If thats the case there is no point in waiting 6 weeks for a temperament test, because I have to commit. If its my turn to pick for a male and there are males available, the color matters that much? She wants everyone picked out by 6 weeks.
I don't like the pressure. If all the males were one color it wouldn't matter apparently? Who is so asinine that color matters more than health or temperament?? Apparently every buyer behind me. I'm trying to find a way to get my money back at this point. I insisted that I wanted to temperament test at 6 weeks, and she told me it was fine before but now it isn't because the puppies are different colors??? Seriously???
Now she is ignoring my texts. So thats awesome. She has a good chunk of my money already, so if she stops responding to texts and I don't get a pup, that's theft, right?
I'm new to this, so please weigh in. She said I basically need to pick either black or red and I wouldn't be able to change it later. If thats the case there is no point in waiting 6 weeks for a temperament test, because I have to commit. If its my turn to pick for a male and there are males available, the color matters that much? She wants everyone picked out by 6 weeks.
I don't like the pressure. If all the males were one color it wouldn't matter apparently? Who is so asinine that color matters more than health or temperament?? Apparently every buyer behind me. I'm trying to find a way to get my money back at this point. I insisted that I wanted to temperament test at 6 weeks, and she told me it was fine before but now it isn't because the puppies are different colors??? Seriously???
Now she is ignoring my texts. So thats awesome. She has a good chunk of my money already, so if she stops responding to texts and I don't get a pup, that's theft, right?
I hope you didn't put a lot of money down because the health and temperament are way more important than the color. If the breeder doesn't see that, there's a problem. And if she is already blowing off your texts, it's another bad sign. She is probably really busy with new pups but she should still respond within a day or 2.
StateOfMine
Hot Topics Subscriber
We were rapid fire texting just the other day when she was wanting me to pick either the black or the red male and told me how waiting another 5-6 weeks wasn't feasible. I think she got mad when I asked her why color made such a huge difference and why couldn't she tell the buyers behind me that only 2 males would be available but until 6 weeks she didn't know which 2. I don't see what the issue is. The buyers behind me only care about color I guess because apparently no one else wants to test. They just see the cute brand new puppy with the personality of a house plant and decide they want it.
What % did she take? This is why my breeder does not like taking any money until ear crop time. Color is on the bottom of the list of importance. Temperament won't be determined until closer to your deadline. Conformation for show vs pet won't be determined until 8 weeks the earliest, 12 weeks for last window to look. Next gender. Then maybe color. I would not feel comfortable with this breeder at all.
StateOfMine
Hot Topics Subscriber
$500. Then I asked if I could pay more earlier than required because I was getting a house and I wanted to be ahead of the curve. So... another $950. I didn't know exactly how she operated yet. And I don't feel anywhere near as comfortable with her as I did when this started. A lot has come to light that I didn't anticipate.
Would a temperament test even be useful at 6 weeks? I wanted it done at 7 weeks but she said 6 weeks was the latest I could wait to pick. Beyond frustrated.
Cferg
Notable member
I’m curious about the temperment test you are wanting to do. And what traits are you looking for? I’m not a breeder but I’ve heard many breeders and working dog brokers talk about puppy selection. And to some it up, they would never bet their bottom dollar that a dog would turn out a certain way. At least not at 6-8 weeks. Another thing that gives this weight is that serious working dog brokers don’t procure dogs till 6-18 months I believe.
And my personal dog turned out nothing like the 13 week old puppy I picked up.
And my personal dog turned out nothing like the 13 week old puppy I picked up.
StateOfMine
Hot Topics Subscriber
I literally set up my half acre of yard for a doberman. 6ft tall fence (was not cheap) with a combo of hog fence and wood privacy fence.
I wanted to test for sociability (wants to follow if encouraged), food drive, prey drive (both of which are just so I know what to spend more money on, treats or toys to train with) and the test to see if he cowers or investigates a loud noise/an umbrella opening up to test for sensitivity/nerves.
I pretty much want a stable dog. Thats it. Lol
I wanted to test for sociability (wants to follow if encouraged), food drive, prey drive (both of which are just so I know what to spend more money on, treats or toys to train with) and the test to see if he cowers or investigates a loud noise/an umbrella opening up to test for sensitivity/nerves.
I pretty much want a stable dog. Thats it. Lol
If this breeder has so many buyers waiting in the wings, he/she should not have a problems with you withdrawing your desire for a puppy. I personally would not be comfortable with this breeder. They don't seem to care about what you are looking for or if it pleases you. Most reputable breeders weigh in what each buyer is looking for, tests the puppies accordingly and chooses puppies for each buyer. In cases like a buyer looking for a show champion or a working dog, they should be honest in where you are in line for getting what you want. If looking for a companion dog they should choose that for you according to your application. If the deposit is declared non-refundable when you put it down, I'm not sure what to tell you.
Cferg
Notable member
My dog has been a chow hound since the day I picked her up. So that might carry on to maturity but I’ve heard that’s not always the case. Her prey drive isn’t crazy high but I definitely do anything to build it when she was younger (I’ll definitely do that with the next one).
My dog was social till 4 months then her real self showed up. Pick a litter based off the parents and the generations before it. That’s your best indicator of what kind of dog you’ll end up with. Even then it’s not a sure thing.
My dog was social till 4 months then her real self showed up. Pick a litter based off the parents and the generations before it. That’s your best indicator of what kind of dog you’ll end up with. Even then it’s not a sure thing.
THIS 100%
Kswoodssue
Hot Topics Subscriber
In our obedience class, part of the test was to put our pup in a down position and to walk away. With back turned to the pup, we called her. When she started to come to us, the trainer dropped a heavy clipboard on the floor with a bang. Our pup looked back briefly, but came to us. This was a training exercise, not just a temperament test. Even at 17 months, our girl hates cardboard boxes and swimming pools full of plastic balls, but lay between us on the ground last night during the fireworks, watching people and chewing her bone, and showed alertness, but no fear. My point, don’t put all your faith in a test. I have never bought a dog without meeting and knowing about the parents.
You are referring to a Volhard type test? So many breeders do this with every litter as well as keen observation of the individual puppies as they grow, all the while thinking of each applicant and what they are wanting in their future dog. Again, if this breeder doesn't show, doesn't work her dogs in any sport, then how would she know what she's looking for for you? Every puppy in each litter will have different personalities. My breeder picked puppies for the applicants, nobody got to choose their puppy except by sex (they were all black, so no color choice). She went by what our application said and what phone conversations we'd had, what our experience & expectations were. She also exposed the litter to as many different things as possible according to age: different surfaces, indoors and outdoors, rocks and water, toys and tunnels, young children, noises etc. and took notes on collar colors the entire time. We got updates on the litter with photos or videos at least once a week, if not more. I couldn't imagine a more thorough upbringing.
That how our breeders have been too. Our current breeder will ask what color and gender you want and if you want a show pup or companion and go from there.
Kaiser2016
Well-Known Member
If the breeder is reputable - follows the breed standard - then I think you should get these qualities easily, barring some anomaly. They always follow you, food or prey drive doesn’t really matter because most shaping of commands will be done with food (not treats just use their meals) before moving on to toy rewards (tugs) only. Doberman puppies are endlessly curious lol, they will not only investigate noises but they will create plenty too.
I agree with Ravenbird if the breeder has so many buyers, just ask for your deposit back. At a minimum she should return the extra payment you made.
Same here.
Abner’s Dad
Member
Me too! I just read through this thread with intense interest. Great advise given and I’m impressed with your yard preparation, Stateofmind!
I’ve only had three Dobermans, 1 female and 2 males. My limited experience reflects fatiguedsuki’s observations perfectly.
