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Winning ‘Best in Show’ isn’t always for the best

Discussion in 'Canine News/Informative Articles' started by JanS, Feb 26, 2020.

  1. Panama

    Panama Hot Topics Subscriber

    These are the Evaluations they have set up for this year.

    WAE.jpg

     
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    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Ravenbird

    Ravenbird Notable member

    It doesn't have to be pressure, maybe I used the wrong word. Defense is STRESS for a dog, Prey drive is PLAY. When a dog is presented with a stressful situation (someone jumping over the fence, no owner there to encourage defense, its all on its own) - defense with excessive stress can produce fear biting which is about as bad as it gets. These dogs would love to stand by us, defend us and our property, but to throw them out and see what their made of with no training like the video showed just isn't fair at all and in fact can set the dog back for being an honest protection dog. Like an unfair attack at a dog park can make a puppy dog aggressive for life.

    I was out all day & never started a new thread on working dogs and what's been lost and what the breed is now (nothing to do with showing and pet dogs), but I intend when I get some time. There's only a handful of working dog people here, but I'd still be interested in a conversation about Defense, Prey Drive and excessive nerves (reactiveness) and how to channel each one to benefit the dog AND owner.
     
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  3. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Wish one of them was reasonably close.
     
  4. Panama

    Panama Hot Topics Subscriber

    Our closest one is a little over 3 hrs. We won't miss it this year!
     
  5. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    From all the times I’ve seen people cross the street when they see Kaiser, the visual deterrence is more than sufficient, so for me personally, aside from being in love with his looks, I could definitely have a chilled out Doberman that enjoys the cat lifestyle: lounging on the sofa, sunbathing, and snoozing, all day, yes please! I do think they are a lot of work for the average person and between me and my hb, we are able to keep everyone fairly happy. If we had kids, or a LIFE outside of Kaiser’s demanding schedule :spit:, I’m not sure such a high energy dog would be ok. Min Pins, Manchester terriers, Dachshunds, they’re super cute, but it’s just not the same as living with a little pony :wacky:
     
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  6. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber



    EXACTLY! :thumbsup:
    I think people appreciate the intimidation factor and the beauty. Some think they want to get involved in a working sport until they realize the time involved and the work that goes with it.
     
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  7. Panama

    Panama Hot Topics Subscriber

    I would think a fairly high percent of well bred Dobes would do well in a working sport if that type of temperament was nurtured and worked from the beginning?
     
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  8. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Many working sports, sure; but not so much bitework.

    I know probably the majority of Dobes could be spoon-fed and nurtured from early on to know the game of confronting a "hostile" man, but a good bite has been bred out of most Dobermans. Just my opinion.
     
  9. MyBuddy

    MyBuddy Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    I agree! Good comparison. And one that, as a horse person, makes a lot of sense. :thumbsup2:


    See, but I think that's the problem. Most people don't know breeds. They know what they like in looks. But they know nothing behind the breed. At least not all the time. Heck, I even look at a lot of dogs and think, gosh they're so pretty or I love the looks of that one! It's easy to get wrapped up in cuteness of a breed. Or the awe of the statuesque Doberman! :dobe: ;) How many people buy a dog and then feel they are way in over their heads? Because they bought a dog through emotion and not knowledge.

    In the beginning, my husband seemed to gravitate toward a lot of sporting breeds. He really wanted a Irish Setter. (Boy, when was the last time you saw an Irish Setter, huh?) Anyway, even though I think they're beautiful I wasn't really that interested in getting one. The other day we were at Farm & Fleet and someone walked in with a German Shorthaired Pointer. We both said, Beautiful dog! I think we both were drawn to it because of the sleek body like a doberman, LOL. But I had to remind him that was a sporting dog. A hunting breed. I said that dog will probably be out hunting all day. And bring you back everything, LOL. I said look at Kali. She is part Min Pin. I believe they are Hunters too and boy, is she a good Hunter! Always searching, always looking, always wanted to give chase. But she's easy to contain because she's small. I said, I don't think you would be able to handle a German Shorthaired Pointer.:p

    I can't tell you how many times I wanted to test my first Doberman! He had a lot of prey drive and he was very protective but not a monster. He was very good with other dogs and people. But I always had the sense that he would attack anyone that hurt me. I would hide in the house sometimes and someone would let him inside and he would run through the house till he found me. Crying and whining the whole way because he was so excited. What I always wanted to do was have a stranger that he has never met hide in the house. Then I would come home with him and see if he noticed that there was somebody in the house. Nobody wanted to be the guinea pig! LOL. But I would have loved to have seen that! I think that would be a wonderful tool. Especially for a woman. Wouldn't it be great coming home and knowing that your dog knows that there is danger in the house?
     
  10. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    I believe Kaiser would be able to sniff them out just based on some things he does with us. If we have been to a restaurant or at the movie theatre, he will very attentively sniff the back of our legs. I think he smells all the other people off our clothes. One time I used my knee to push on a store door, he was fixated on that same knee when I got back to him and we were both outside so there were plenty of other smells all around us. They are fascinating to watch and figure out, that’s for sure.
     
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  11. Maja Rocks

    Maja Rocks $ Forum Donor $

    Well Maja's not timid but her sire has a WAC and dam has a IPO1.
    If any one wants to see a WAC test go to the link and scroll down to the April 28 2018 video post. Ch Soquel’s Fortunate Son BCAT RATN CGC
    Cheers
    MR
     
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  12. Panama

    Panama Hot Topics Subscriber

    Yeah, that's where I don't know if I have enough ass behind me to hold Joker.
     
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  13. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber


    Ya mean like this? Skip to the stranger. That poor woman was doing everything she could to hold on.
     
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  14. Panama

    Panama Hot Topics Subscriber

    YES.... At least I know ours will be done on grass, so I'll have to find something with good meaty tread (or cleats). LOL
     
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  15. JanS

    JanS DCF Owner Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    Our GSP came from champion hunting lines and his hunting instinct was through the roof but he was the sweetest most laid back boy you could as for in the house and always wanted to be near us. Outside he was always way too far ahead when his hunting drive kicked in so it was hard to enjoy a leisurely walk with him off lead.
     
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  16. Rits

    Rits Admin Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    Maybe unpopular opinion but he seemed pretty reactive at non-threatening things. The person just walked out from behind the van, not even towards her, and he went ballistic. They didn't even get a chance to threaten. Same with the umbrella and he took a while to come down from both. Kinda scary to me thinking if she lost control of him... maybe a bad day. Better than non-reactive and hiding I suppose. I'd like to see a little more of an actual threat first and not just some person appearing from behind their car.
     
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  17. Maja Rocks

    Maja Rocks $ Forum Donor $

    Well.... at least the dog is not timid.
    I agree being a bit more proportional to the threat would be best.
    But I will take a dog that is somewhat overly reactive and aggressive, over a doberman that is shy and timid and exhibits absolutely no guarding or protective behavior at all. Any day of the week.
    You can't train a timid dog to be bold and fearless , but you can dial back a bold dog to acceptable levels with proper training.
    Sorry but most NA dobermans have lost the very instincts they were bred for to start with. Thats why I went with an NA X Euro cross.
    I wanted a sharper dog with focus and drive.
    As the photo shows I got what I was asking for!
    This bitch is intense and not for the faint of hart.
    I have to admit there has been more than a few moments that I feared that I was in over my head with Maja. But I don't regret getting her one bit. She is freaking amazing and makes me bring my "A" game every day. I have to rise to the occasion everyday because she is testing and pushing limits everyday and she is doing here best to train me LOL!
    When we get thru the Doberteens I have no doubt that she will be the the best dog I have ever owned and she has huge shoes to fill.
    MR
    IMG_E8582.JPG
     
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  18. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber



    I agree with you 100%! I only shared that that video because of the struggle of the handler worked for @Panama comment.
    I was surprised to see the dog passed. I would have failed him at the umbrella. I don't think he recovered fast enough considering the threat.
     
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  19. Ravenbird

    Ravenbird Notable member

    I'm in the same boat with ya here! I love my girl, but whew, some days...
    Total truth. But one has to be able to see whether a "bold" dog is really acting out of fear aggression. How to channel that energy takes talent, whether it's overly bold or in fear aggression mode.
    Yes, especially the umbrella - that was a non-threat thing that could happen in public - not something to attack, and he went around the umbrella and barked at the innocent person!
     
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  20. Ravenbird

    Ravenbird Notable member

    Can someone (@Panama ?) tell me how the scores work? Now you've sent me down a rabbit hole reading about this & watching videos... They actually list the test results on dogs that passed, so now seeing it, I'm wondering what the numbers mean. Is 3 better than 1? what is a + ? What about a -1? I looked for an explanation of scores but couldn't find it. It's a great tool to see what might be in your own dogs pedigree, where they did well and where they didn't - if only I can figure out if high numbers are better and what a + means.

    Here's the page I'm looking at: DPCA | The Doberman | Temperament | WAE
     

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