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Winning ‘Best in Show’ isn’t always for the best

Discussion in 'Canine News/Informative Articles' started by JanS, Feb 26, 2020.

  1. Tropicalbri's

    Tropicalbri's $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I thought he was way too reactive over a non threatening situation and he did not settle as quickly as I would have wanted. There did not seem to be control with him as he was pretty amped up and blowing off his commands. Would not want that in real life situations.

    I can’t believe he passed either. He seemed more spooked than a controlled response to an innocuous situation.

    @Panama get football cleats or the snow cleats that you can attach to your shoes.
    I tried using my golf shoes and that was a real joke so I ordered football cleats.
    I have a climbing harness that I used while trimming trees. I would hook Bogie to that so that the force was on my hips instead of my arms.
    I will say too that you need to be careful not to snap a knee when you get a good purchase with the cleats. I leaned back against the force but quickly ass planted when Bogie gave ground. I just have to realize I am no match against their physical strength no matter how I position myself. You should have seen me trying to restrain Bogie for the Lure Coursing. He got sooo excited that I thought he was going to drag me face down after the lure before I could release him.:eek:

     
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  2. Panama

    Panama Hot Topics Subscriber

    I have access to football cleats!!!
     
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  3. MyBuddy

    MyBuddy Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    He passed?! Wow, that's surprising. I skipped to the part with the umbrella and was very surprised at his reaction. At first I thought it was kind of good because I think if it were Buddy he would have shied. I don't think he would have fallen apart in fear but I'm sure he would have been a little spooked as it opened. But when the man in the yellow raincoat came out, that dog went ballistic! All I kept thinking about was, what if she couldn't hold him? what the hell? I certainly wouldn't think he would pass that test! He was certainly no threat. I'd like a bold dog, but not a wild bull.
     
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  4. MyBuddy

    MyBuddy Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    Okay I just had to watch it from the beginning and I think the only thing that dog did well at was the shooting of the gun. When the second person greeted the dog, he jumped up like he was happy to see her but then started to look aggressive actually! And did he jump up at the judge aggressively at the 1:11??
     
  5. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber



    He did. :shock:
    It was interesting to see the comments following the video. All the working people were like "WOW! Nice dog!" The show people were like "He passed? Really? That dog was a nervous Nellie."




    They can be spooked. They just have to recover. Sounds like Buddy would do fine on that part.




    I agree! I personally would have failed him overall.
     
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  6. Ddski5

    Ddski5 Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I am prob getting into a conversation that I don’t fully understand the rules/components.

    The video appears to be a test of control. Both the Doberman controlling itself and the handler controlling the Doberman.

    Really seems to me that the Doberman should not have passed. The umbrella is a common incident that can occur as well as the man walking from behind the van. One could try to argue that the man was simulating a thug walk and posed a threat. I saw an elderly man with a poncho on that had a past stroke and was limping/dragging a weaker leg.

    Like others stated, I sure would hate to see what would happen if that Doberman got loose on a frail old stroke patient that could not defend himself.

    To have that kind of certificate or award and pass a test like this should not be just handed out to any that attend. There should be a very high standard to maintain.
     
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  7. Panama

    Panama Hot Topics Subscriber

    With the aggressive strange
    I do feel he was way over reactive especially in the last section of the evaluation. (as well as the umbrella)
    I interpret the exercise to measure alertness / and ability to recognize non-threat & threat and react accordingly.

    When the decoy comes into view, crossing the dog's path, the dog should alert, stand their ground and be watchful (with maybe some barking "just keep movin' dude" kind of thing). When the decoy turns in the dog's direction making threatening or aggressive gestures, that is when the dog should take the defensive stand to protect himself & his handler.

    (To me) It appears that was something they tried to practice before the eval and the dog knew the decoy would advance on him.

    I have seen one that ran behind the handler when the decoy approached and did not advance beyond the handler until the decoy was headed back behind the van, and she passed.

    Another about pissed himself over the umbrella and had a very hard time recovering, and passed.
     
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  8. Rits

    Rits Admin Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    Apparently after reading the comments to the video they did IPO the day before so the dog was expecting and wanting to bite someone. Regardless, I feel a stable Doberman or any protection dog, should know the difference or else you have a huge liability on your hands. I'm glad it wasn't just me that felt this way!

    That's sad that there are situations where they are passing and they shouldn't be. Kinda make the test not be held to a high regard for those that truly pass with proper temperament.
     
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  9. Ravenbird

    Ravenbird Notable member

    I found the score sheet & descriptions for anyone wanting to learn more:
    http://dpca.org/awards/wae/documents/wae-score-sheet-v1.pdf
    Also, since results from tests across the country are posted on the DPCA website under this subject, I added up the total entries for 2019 and pass/fails. The results are pretty dismal reflection of our beloved breed. 253 entered, 136 passed and 117 failed for a sad total of just over half of dobermans who attempted to pass the temperament test passed. Which brings us back to the original subject of our Dobermans losing their original purpose and character.

    Also there is an All Breed Temperament Test, title on dog is an ATT. This one states that a dog that has been in IGP training or other protection work is allowed to have more of a protective/attack reaction than, say, a husky or Golden Retriever, because any breed can take this test and they are not expected to react the same.
     
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  10. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber



    I have watched countless WAE's and well as participated myself. I'm not sure how truly accurate the numbers are. I think there is probably a coupe of factors that explain it. Of course judging is one, just like in conformation or most dog sports, the judge matters. I think most of us here on DCF agree the dog in the video should have failed, yet he passed. Another biggie is so many people just don't understand temperament. Even with a standard explaining what it should be, people like what they like. Again, the dog in the video could probably only live in certain homes, most would surrender him to a shelter.
    I have seen dogs so practiced on the WAE that they are bored with it come testing day and it shows. Not a true evaluation if you ask me.
     
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  11. Ravenbird

    Ravenbird Notable member

    I assumed the numbers are correct since it's from DPCA, but I definitely noticed one judge passed significantly more entries than other judges, perhaps that's the one that passed the dog in the video? The ATT website states that how the temperament test is not supposed to reflect Schutzhund training, or any training for that matter, but is to evaluate the dogs natural reaction and recovery from stressors. But yeah, everyone trains/practices before taking the test.
     
  12. MyBuddy

    MyBuddy Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    Cuz everyone wants to pass. Especially in front of others!

    But for my own curiosity, I can see trying a few things on my own in my own backyard. I'm just thinking.... how interesting would it be to maybe have someone crouched down against the fence with an open umbrella hiding them? Then walk out with Buddy. :evilgrin:

    Where's a grandchild when you need them? ? :D
     
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