White dobermans
- Thread starter Zeus19742008
- Start date
Panama
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I don't recall anyone saying any Dobe being shown or bred were 100% healthy. Nothing is perfect, however, the goal for breeders should be to breed as close to the standard as possible, striving for near perfection!
DobieLvr
Novitiate
If the Dobe's being shown are our breeding stock - they should be. AND with the exception of being white - the Z dogs are apparently longer lived and healthier than the colored "approved" dogs... Just from what is posted here...
Have you personally tried to get one in Panama? I don't show so I'm not trying to start one but, from what has already been shown on the thread about whites and Z's in the Health and Nutrition section, they aren't allowed in the show ring. The stats of their accomplishments in other venues are posted there, too. Not getting on you, it's just that this debate has about been done to death in the last week or so.
Panama
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Spay & Neuter!
Agreed jstlovesdobes. Spay & neuter isn't the cure all for this problem. That was tried here in the US with people at the turn of the 20th century. Presumed retarded people and some juvinal delinquents were steralized by the thousands. That is where this philosophy comes from. Has that stopped crime and mental health issues in this country. No. Are we any better than our predicessors in how we treat our defensless animals? They can't speak for themselves either so I don't think so.
Panama
Hot Topics Subscriber
Ok, I checked out the thread you mentioned (yes, the entire thread), and there is NOTHING stated about Z Factored Dobes not being allowed in the Breed Ring!
There is NOTHING in the Conformation Rules & Regulations or the standard stating a Black, Red, Blue or Fawn Z Factored Doberman cannot compete in Conformation. (If there is, by all means, please send me the info).
No, I have never tried to show a Z Factored Dobe, I don't own one. I'm fairly new to Conformation and have shown my female in a few different venues in which she's earned 4 titles as well as her AKC CGC by the time she was 2.
My point is, if these breeders producing Z factored litters feel they are improving the breed or doing the breed any justice at all by breeding Non Z to whites, why aren't they trying to show them? If it is for the fact that the registration #'s are listed in the catalogs and everyone else there will know the dog is Z factored that bothers them or keeps them from entering, then obvously they don't believe in what they are doing.
In this forum and many others I see White & Z Factored breeders boasting about "Beautiful Conformation". If they don't get them out there to see how they stack up to non-Z factored Dobes, it's just called Kennel Blindness.
DobieLvr
Novitiate
Panama
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NKC CH? Doesn't say if there were even any other Dobes he actually defeated! LOL, sorry, I do not feel they are much better or different then the Continential Kennel Club, ACA, APRI...
A CGC can be acquired by any dog (purebred or mixed breed) with Basic Leash training, Basic Obedience and a level Temperament.
I think it's awesome that those that have whites do agility.
Again, I don't show either of my dobes. I do happen to own a Z factored female. I don't have the time or the money to do so. I have, however, read on here that showing these dogs is discouraged in most arenas. Maybe it's an unwritten rule but it exsists nontheless. Blacks not being allowed to sit at lunch counters back in the 60's wasn't written into law either but the practice undeniably existed until the Civil Right's Movement brought it to the general publics attention.
F
FredC
MLR, im not excatlly sure of the specific rule, But if a beautiful dominant black Euro is going to have problems picking up majors i would have to assume a Z factored dog wouldnt have a chance if word got out. witch im positive it would in no time.
Panama
Hot Topics Subscriber
No, they just won't/don't get out there. I've heard of one that has attempted, but couldn't handle it. Guess she just didn't have thick enough skin to stand up to her beliefs and/or she just wan't passionate enough about what she was doing and trying to present. If she was, she never would've bailed.
Showing is not for everyone, I understand that, it isn't easy, just like Agility is not for me.
