What action is being taken to save the breed?

[Rits]

IMO, always look for a breeder that titles their breeding stock. Whether it be IGP, Obedience, Agility, Scentwork, Conformation or hopefully a variety of these things. But they need to be proving that their dogs are capable of handling the stresses of training and trialing in multiple venues day in and day out and prove that they have STABLE temperaments. This includes accepting neutral strangers (judges) in appropriate environments. This doesn't mean they need to be friendly, but they need to be at minimum neutral when their owners feel comfortable. This is something that believe it or not, can also be judged in conformation. When the judge approaches to examine your dog, they are ALL in your and your dogs space. Then the judge lays hands on the dog and the dog should tolerate it. It would be no different than if they were at the vet. Because you, the owner, tolerates it and your behavior is telling the dog that there is nothing to be worried about (saying hello to the judge, feeding the dog etc.), they should too. A doberman that shies away, or growls, or worse... bites in this environment is not a stable doberman.

Honestly, a nervy doberman is not going to do good in any of these venues so while we may not have a way to title/test that is specific to a doberman other than the WAE (title is WAC) I would encourage prospective owners to seek and support breeders that do title their dogs as one of the ways to help preserve this breed.

 

[Ravenbird]

@Rits - I totally agree. I'm the first to admit that Asha is too sharp (genetically) and I was unable to expose her to public life like I had planned due to where I live and her first two years were during Covid shutdowns. I think missing that boat in her most formative years was a huge contributor, and if I had to do it over I would have figured out ways to expose her to things. Benchmark recently wrote some interesting articles on nerve and also pointed out that different situations bring out different nerve reactions. I think this is especially true of Dobermans - they can be incredibly fierce and defensive but also tend to be quite emotional on a personal level.

One of the best books on understanding the different drives in a working dog are in this book. You can see in the description of the book what drives you must consider and activate in a working dog. As @DracoDobie mentioned, the sports work is leaning into more prey drive where as it use to be defense and aggression. The Mals especially can do the entire routine in prey drive. Dobermans were bred (originally) for defense, which is not a herder trait. That's why it's sooo important to get the right helper/club that knows how to work a Doberman!

Leerburg | Der Schutzhund (The Protection Dog)

The most comprehensive book ever written about drive manipulation and development for protection work. A must-read for every helper and decoy and a great way to learn about dog bite work. The concepts in this book apply to all types of protection work: Schutzhund, Ring Sport, KNVP, Police, etc

leerburg.com

 

[Rits]

I'm the first to admit that Asha is too sharp (genetically) and I was unable to expose her to public life like I had planned

And it's not necessarily a bad thing that she is sharp because she has come around with more exposure and training! This is another reason I think breeders should be titling their dogs so that they can see the temperaments of their dogs in these stressful environments and find out if their behavior can be modified, or is it so bad no amount of training is going to work. Stavros for example is aloof. He is not your overly friendly guy. His instinct was to occasionally growl when someone came up on him strong (only out and about, never in the ring). Over time he has learned to trust his handler and is neutral/ignores strangers and tolerates them. I find this acceptable for the breed and was able to see that his behavior is able to be managed with training and exposure. If I didn't train and trial him for show, I wouldn't have this vital information. I likely would not breed him to an overly suspicious doberman to avoid creating too strongly of a suspicious offspring.

 

[BGpa]

My last two Dobes came from working breeders who specialized in IGP (IPO, Schuthzund).

They both possessed the ability to full-mouth bite (including lunging in and wedging the jaws around the article).

They were bold, confident Dobes, though my second one did show timidity over walks after dark and having strangers oncoming – this, only when quite young. As with many dog breeders, the breeder lives in a rural setting and I think the transition to my higher density setting was totally unfamiliar.

They had little to no "back down" in them. They showed no fear in confrontations.

They were physically durable.

The learning ability was on par with pretty much all Dobes (which is excellent), and their biddability was great.

Their noses and scenting capability were great.

I would probably rather have a Dobe from proven working lines in personal protection instead of, or in addition to, IGP; but IGP titles on many of their ancestry does ensure you will get a solid working Dobe.

Their physical appearance tends to be not so great, and their intiidation factor less, owing to that. On the other hand I could point you to videos of my last Dobe's reaction to anyone coming up onto my porch. His diminutive frame was not much of a factor in those situations. They carried themselves with extreme alertness and proud, intense carriage at all times when out of the house.

Thank you. That video would be entertaining.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Thank you. That video would be entertaining.

Random Pet Video of the Day - Share yours!

That’s awesome Ruby. Really enjoyed the trick video and taking notes on the agility cues. Thanks for posting.

doberman-chat.com

Random Pet Video of the Day - Share yours!

I swear to god, these 2 aren’t right! :D That's adorable! Wasn't there a time when you first got her that she was afraid of men? She sure got past that!

doberman-chat.com

In the second vid. I had not yet learned not to rotate the phone while recording.

 

[BGpa]

Thanks Draco!

 

[Rits]

@BG1 did you mean to hit disagree on my post above?

 

[BGpa]

Just a few quick thoughts:

The AKC is a studbook. Nothing more, nothing less. Studbooks sometimes implement policies at the behest of the country's primary breed-specific organization, in the case of AKC, it's the DPCA. But they won't always do exactly what the breed club wants. I'm sure the DPCA wants all albinoid and z-factor Dobes to be barred from the registry altogether, or only be allowed limited registration until that entire bloodline is extinguished. All the AKC seems willing to do is brand the registration with the "z" prefix because there's money in registering "rare white Dobes." Ugh.

There is no real need for an external outcross. There is still decent health and diversity within the breed, it's just not in lines that were inbred around popular sires. The breeders who went all-in with the Eddie fad have a lot at stake and they seem utterly unwilling to unwind and try internal outcrosses, whether it's with European lines or the more obscure, informally-bred North American lines. That I had a healthy female (Kira) with correct temperament who was on the extremely outbred end of the Doberman spectrum, who lived to almost 12 and didn't have a hint of DCM-related cardiac enlargement, is proof enough that these dogs ARE out there and there IS hope. People just have to look and be serious about doing the health testing & building good pedigree data on those obscure lines. Most folks just dismiss the informally-bred Dobermans as being sickly trash. Some are. Most are healthier and will live longer than a well-bred dog.

Thanks, btw for the "studbook" reference.

Here is an old but new found by me take on the Disappearing Dobe Project, by a fairly well known Dobe handler:

https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=youtube+disappearing+doberman+project

 

[BGpa]

@BG1 did you mean to hit disagree on my post above?

Nope. Green check is what I used, confirmed now.
Did it show as a red X on your end?

 

[Rits]

Nope. Green check is what I used, confirmed now.
Did it show as a red X on your end?

It is a red x

 

[JanS]

Did it show as a red X on your end?

I see a red X too.

 

[BGpa]

It is a red x

View attachment 148201

Errr, double checking...ok, I did red X your post #41...which is odd, and a definite "oops, sorry" as I typically dont do so unless I have a useful comment to offer in respectful difference.
And since I'm pretty much a dobe noob, I tend to listen closely to knowledgeable owners, esp handlers or trainers, vs talk about what I dont know as much...

So, butt dialed the red X, I guess!
Fixed now.

Green check reminds me I read it, agree by default.
I use the blue info square to remind myself to circle back for reference info.

The rest not so much.

I'm not here every day, so for any questions needing a faster reply - anyone feel free to PM anytime, mods too, of course.

 

[BGpa]

Thanks, btw for the "studbook" reference.

Here is an old but new found by me take on the Disappearing Dobe Project, by a fairly well known Dobe handler:

https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=youtube+disappearing+doberman+project

Here is the contact info at U of M if you want to submit info to help the breed:

Disappearing Doberman

We are excited to announce that we are now enrolling study participants for the Disappearing Doberman Project. Participants will need to check their dog(s) eligibility, as well as collect the information and documents needed to complete the survey, outlined in the checklist document. Checklist...

vetmed.umn.edu

 

[BGpa]

Random Pet Video of the Day - Share yours!

That’s awesome Ruby. Really enjoyed the trick video and taking notes on the agility cues. Thanks for posting.

doberman-chat.com

Random Pet Video of the Day - Share yours!

I swear to god, these 2 aren’t right! :D That's adorable! Wasn't there a time when you first got her that she was afraid of men? She sure got past that!

doberman-chat.com

In the second vid. I had not yet learned not to rotate the phone while recording.

Thanks btw Oji for the vids.

 

[BGpa]

Here is the Doberman Planet guy interviewing Dr Sophie Lu, starting at 1:15

Impressive creds, Dr Liu.

 

[BGpa]

Here is the Doberman Planet guy interviewing Dr Sophie Lu, starting at 1:15

Impressive creds, Dr Liu.

This is the Diversity project, which is different from the Disappearing project, but with similar concerns.