How about this pedigree? (Altobello)

[DN2017]

Hi guys! I'd like to hear your opinion about this pedigree. We have our eyes on a pup from this litter and I'm currently looking into the breeder (which has a fluctuating image for as far as I've read now). The parents are good looking IMO.

Thanks for your reply!

http://www.altobellodobermann.com/l...di-altobello-x-weronica-di-altobello-i-litter

 

[Drogon]

Two years ago I would’ve said that’s a great puppy. I have since learned that Altobello has DCM in some of their lines. I just lost my boy two weeks ago he was only three years old. He didn’t die of DCM and he wasn’t from Altobello but his death was heart related, he was from Serbia, he shares some of the same dogs in his pedigree.
Research the cause of death of theses dogs and know your risk factor before making any decisions. There’s a Facebook through that can help you out I forget the exact name of it but if you search for Doberman DCM you should find it. There’s a woman on that group whose name I can’t remember either but she’s really good at doing all the research on bringing a cause of death

 

[DN2017]

Two years ago I would’ve said that’s a great puppy. I have since learned that Altobello has DCM in some of their lines. I just lost my boy two weeks ago he was only three years old. He didn’t die of DCM and he wasn’t from Altobello but his death was heart related, he was from Serbia, he shares some of the same dogs in his pedigree.
Research the cause of death of theses dogs and know your risk factor before making any decisions. There’s a Facebook through that can help you out I forget the exact name of it but if you search for Doberman DCM you should find it. There’s a woman on that group whose name I can’t remember either but she’s really good at doing all the research on bringing a cause of death

Thank you for your reply and I am so sorry to hear about your beloved boy

 

[DN2017]

Wanted to edit but couldnt anymore: the pups parents are both DCM clear fortunately. I couldnt stop thinking about him since I woke up this morning so I think I'll have a serious chat with my hubby today

 

[Sir.duke865]

Just passed on a direct import Altobello pup myself , actually a grandson of maxim, to many mixed reviews, lots of claims of cheating and supplementing or fabrication, no first hand experience so only going off of research. Personally I’d ride the wave, and look for a line with a better track record to much mud in that pond for my liking. They also put ws on their paper work but if you do a history check and learn about Altobello, Altobello is NOT ever been into performance but huge into confirmation so that in itself was another flag for me. Not saying it wouldn’t be a great dobie I personally would just look around more, learned my lesson impulse buying and not researching and following the things I had learned. When you find that perfect pup you’ll know, don’t get tricked by the puppy eyes their ALL great, cute seems to be a lot of ppls deciding factor which is not the best but I believe we are all guilty of it at one point or another lol

 

[Sir.duke865]

Another thing I may be incorrect as it’s been awhile but I believe your supposed to test for DCM every year which means there test are clear now but that could change any given Sunday,
They can only test for the one gene they know to look for first off and second they actually don’t know what other genes are part of this so a negative test just means that single known gene is not present, the subject could VERY WELL still have dcm present, but also a positive test doesn’t mean the dobie is going to be affected but it does carry at least carry the KNOWN dcm gene.

Complex topic look it up and read up a bunch about it and research Altobello for yourself sometimes(not all) you can learn a lot from listening to a kennels story, background, what there doing,types of titles so on and so forth

 

[GennyB]

Wanted to edit but couldnt anymore: the pups parents are both DCM clear fortunately. I couldnt stop thinking about him since I woke up this morning so I think I'll have a serious chat with my hubby today

Sounds good doesn't it? The problem is we just don't know enough about the disease yet. My boy was negative for both genes and yet he was diagnosed with Occult DCM in October.
The truth is the disease is rampant in the breed and you must educate yourself and be prepared to do the testing at minimum annually in hopes of catching it early.
After tons of research and talking to breeders, vets and owners, I am convinced there is no such thing as a DCM free pedigree,
All we can do is the testing as mentioned earlier and whatever we can to support research of this devastating disease. Can we rid the breed of this disease? No idea but I do believe we can improve the odds. At this point we don't even have accurate numbers on just how many are affected. Most agree at least 50%, not good odds.

 

[Rits]

I see you found an old post of mine about this breeder. I'm glad you did! I'll copy paste here for others to read.

I know a lot here love the Euro look and recommend altobello. But maybe this will help: they are a commerical kennel in it for business. They breed A LOT. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, but looks alone do sell. I personally don't like the inconsistencies in health testing. I hear they don't put as much of a huge emphasis on health testing in the EU so it makes sense when I checked what health testing Altobello's current breeding pairs had. The Dam had very few and they weren't the same from litter to litter. There seems to be in general less focus on the Dam.

Wanted to edit but couldnt anymore: the pups parents are both DCM clear fortunately.

Over in the EU they like to use the wording "DCM Clear" Like Sir.Duke mentioned, it only means they didn't have the one genetic marker that that specific test was for, it does not mean they are FREE of ever getting or passing on DCM. Some Dobermans will be Clear and still die of DCM. Some won't be and live a long life. DCM unfortunately effects 50% of the breed.

 

[Rits]

What are you looking for out of your Doberman? Show, working, some obedience competition, or pet? Knowing this would help if you are looking for recommendations.

 

[DN2017]

Thanks for the info guys! Seems to be hard to find one without a chance of getting DCM eventually because its only detectable when tested anually and there is no guarantee for the future, right? Makes me wonder if I should just take the chance and buy the pup or buy a pup elsewhere and also have a 50% chance... What are your opinions about that? Is what I am saying even correct?

 

[GennyB]

Another thing I may be incorrect as it’s been awhile but I believe your supposed to test for DCM every year which means there test are clear now but that could change any given Sunday,
They can only test for the one gene they know to look for first off and second they actually don’t know what other genes are part of this so a negative test just means that single known gene is not present, the subject could VERY WELL still have dcm present, but also a positive test doesn’t mean the dobie is going to be affected but it does carry at least carry the KNOWN dcm gene

Complex topic look it up and read up a bunch about it and research Altobello for yourself sometimes(not all) you can learn a lot from listening to a kennels story, background, what there doing,types of titles so on and so forth

The test you are talking about is a cheek swab and there are actually 2 genes we know about. DCM1 and DCM2 and researchers still don't know how they fit in the big picture. But you are correct, negative results does not mean they won't have DCM. Just like a positive results doesn't mean they will. They are just tiny pieces in a giant puzzle.

 

[DN2017]

What are you looking for out of your Doberman? Show, working, some obedience competition, or pet? Knowing this would help if you are looking for recommendations.

Just a pet, a new familymember. We'll take some obedience classes but no competition I think, maybe later on if we love it but I dont think so.

 

[Sir.duke865]

@DN2017 yes the chance of dcm is unavoidable BUT you can buy from a breeder who doesn’t have a history of thier off spring passing from dcm or dcm related issues, when you buy a used car you still inspect it and buy the BEST used car from someone trust worthy to a extent,you don’t just say well it’s used so I’ll take a chance on it being a good one and buy from someone known to sell lemons, you lower the chance of getting a lemon by buying from a good dealer. Can you locate a dobie directly in that line living of a good age next would be how many next would be how many has died at early age vs a normal age or close, after all that then try to find out what caused the deaths of the ones at early age, what health issues did they have throughout their life time. You may not be able to find out all these things but you should be able to at least get a starting point and if for some reason all info is magically hidden, then i keep it moving to someone who has a better record of there dobies and can offer me a level of comfort

 

[Drogon]

My boy tested negative for both DCM1 & DCM2 and still died just over 3 yrs old from a heart issue.

 

[WiglWerm]

the pups parents are both DCM clear fortunately.

Sadly this means nothing.

 

[WiglWerm]

There is a FB group called Doberman Longevity Clusters...I would join and see which breeders have the longest lived pups.

 

[GOD'S GRACE]

I guess it all depends on what you plan on doing with your Dobe...research is best done ahead of time as stated above, if you're going to show or compete with your Dobe...Just one bad issue can stop all your plans....Due Diligence is always recommended.

I'm a rescue type, so I look for those in need and try to enrich their life...

Both styles of parenting are acceptable and needed for the health of the breed.