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FredC
Who is it the DV is bowing to? Certainly not the people the future of the breed depends on (Responsible Breeders)
[fci] Dobermann Breed Standard Changes On 1st Of January 2015
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Dobs4ever
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That is exactly what I have been saying - we need a new registry and a new show program Owned and controlled by AMERICA. Germany has thrown our dogs under the bus - I honestly don't know how anyone could CREATE such an awesome breed - and then turn around and tear down all they did. No country I am aware of has breed better working dogs than Germany- have they lost their freakin minds??
The time is ripe we need to send a loud clear message - DON"T MESS WITH OUR DOBERMANS>
The time is ripe we need to send a loud clear message - DON"T MESS WITH OUR DOBERMANS>
iceman
Active Member
In Europe we have The European Union (EU) which is an economic and political union of 28 member states that are located primarily in Europe..
Animal rights activists (Greens) have in the past put pressure on the western EU countries through EU Parliament to pass laws banning C/D in these countries..Germany was one of them.
Although these Western EU countries banned C/D years ago they could not do anything about C/D in some Eastern European member States..
Now they have put enough pressure on German DV to change the standard and have it approved by the FCI to put a stop to C/D in these countries also..
European Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
During this announcement at the conference, the question about Doberman in USA was put forward to Wiblishouser...and his exact words were..."the Americans have a history of taking a breed and changing it, making it their own...to be honest...we don't care what they do over there.. this is going to be our standard, applied to our dogs..they can do what they like!!"
JerseyFirefighter
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To be as stereotypical 'Murican as I can be, my response to Mr. Wiblishouser is that this isnt the first time Eastern Europe has started some sh*t and we have to pick up the ball after they have dropped it.
It just seems crazy that we are being told we change the breed how we want when they are the ones making the major changes to a long standing characteristic of the breed.
Dobs4ever
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For years I wondered how and why we changed the spelling of the name to Americanize it. I felt we should continue to honor the man who gave us the most magnificant breed. I do know at the time there were already c/d bans in some heavily AR minded countries. Now I think perhaps they were very visionary as I know that Peggy Adamson wrote about the c/d issue years ago when they made the last changes to the standard. BUT we preserved the complete essence of the original standard and yes admitedly they made changes to make it a more social breed so it could live in a changing more urban society.
If you look back at the pictures of Dobermans as they emerged and continue to advance changes were made everywhere not just here. Europe went for the heavier stockier look while we went for a sleeker look that actually stayed more true to the dogs we saw in the 30's and 40's until the SA fad hit and then we started to see unbalanced dogs with big chest and smaller rear ends. But I see some of that in Europe too.
From what I read though whether here or there the conformation folks have a different dog from the working purists. So I feel for a German who is actually destroying and changing he breed to make it a non- discript dog really should look within - It is not US who are abandoning the standard. All I can say is thank God for the Americans who are doing everything in our power to hold on to the look of eagles. WHY because it defines breed type as Judy Doniere said many times.
A Breed is defined in several ways - First and foremost to make a breed recognizable and distinctive you need a "LOOK". No breed carries THAT LOOK more than the Doberman. You need a head shape, an eye shape and color, you need a coat, you need topline, neck set, front and rear angulation, tail set, movement, size and purpose - and you need cropped ears and docked tail as that is the finishing touches that made this breed what it is today. Had it not beeen c/d it would have fallen by they way side and never attracted the attention and favor that it did. Without people to BUY the dogs produced the breed will fall into extinction or die for lack of a gene pool. I say shame on every breeder who now places a puppy uncropped and certainly undocked. It shows they care more about themselves and the money than the preserverance and protection of the breed. I sure dont' see them selling the puppies for 3 to 500.00 less without cropped ears.
to add: I won't even bring up the stupidity of the rule changes made almost every single year on Schutzhund. You have a moving sit then you must stop for the sit - you have a moving down now you must stop for the down....You can't use this word anymore as it bring up negativity, .... a bunch of dumb changes that do not improve the sport or make it easy. You practice all year one way and then by the time you get ready to show the rules changed and now what you practiced is wrong.
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FredC
Isn't this similar to how "Merry Christmas" turned in to "Happy Holidays" in the US? Now instead of being a holiday with a specific intent, it has become a catch all holiday with no real description of what it is we are celebrating.. This new PC world we live in is going to eventually destroy everything generations before us worked so hard to achieve.
It's always fun tipping that first domino and then subsequently watching the rest fall.. Problem is there is no way to avoid cleaning up the mess left behind by hundreds of toppled dominoes.
It's always fun tipping that first domino and then subsequently watching the rest fall.. Problem is there is no way to avoid cleaning up the mess left behind by hundreds of toppled dominoes.
strykerdobe
Hot Topics Subscriber
For sure! I still say Merry Christmas!
You've been yelling this from the rooftops for a long time and nobody seems to be paying attention
The subject of stamping out DCM seems to have disappeared in common Doberman conversation lately, but I'd wager the disease hasn't gone away.
Dobs4ever
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No but we have one tool now that really helps guide us and that is the PDK4 DNA test but without dogs to breed cardio is not going to matter or cancer or anything else for that matter. To solve any problem in the future you must have a strong gene pool to pull from. If we radically eliminated dogs today based on how things have gone (an most is rumor and innuendo) then we destroy the gene pool. Now we hve PDK4 we have to start a plan to work systematically towards eliminating it from the gene pool and then we have a better chance to move past some of the cardio not all by any means.
It was the same way with Vwd BIG scare campaign to promote testing and elimination. There were not enough clear dogs to just radically eliminate all affected and since it is not a major problem a lot of breeders have ignored it. But now we have large enough gene pool to never produce an affected puppy and then we could be to all clears in 10 years if not sooner. I went to all clears years ago and found myself sitting in a pretty nice position when PDK4 came out as all my dogs but two where neg. Gunner was hetro and Bree was homo - Bree was already bred but was spayed immediatley after weaning the litter and placed in a wonderful pet home. I kept a daughter and later found out the stud dog tested neg so I have one hetro from the breeding I kept.
It was the same way with Vwd BIG scare campaign to promote testing and elimination. There were not enough clear dogs to just radically eliminate all affected and since it is not a major problem a lot of breeders have ignored it. But now we have large enough gene pool to never produce an affected puppy and then we could be to all clears in 10 years if not sooner. I went to all clears years ago and found myself sitting in a pretty nice position when PDK4 came out as all my dogs but two where neg. Gunner was hetro and Bree was homo - Bree was already bred but was spayed immediatley after weaning the litter and placed in a wonderful pet home. I kept a daughter and later found out the stud dog tested neg so I have one hetro from the breeding I kept.
I could answer this,but would be a bit off topic(read political).
Maybe not but my point was to show how many years that the c/d look has been the norm for me. Many! Same as for a lot of other breeds. We've come to know them as a certain look. IDK but for some 20 year olds, this may not be a big deal. It may seem like the usual (stupid, I might add!) Merry Christmas turned into Happy Holidays! Change is harder the longer you've known one way. I just find this change in standard so hard to believe and understand. I 'get it' that come don't want to crop. YOU have that CHOICE. It's not fair that we don't. Well, we do for now but I think it's gonna be a hard fight when others keep knuckling over!!
Does anyone know when and if any other breed has had such a dramatic change in their standard??
Von, you stuck another nerve of mine! lol! I absolutely HATE this!!! Hate it! It's soooo stupid!
I can't believe that saying Merry Christmas, like I've been saying for YEARSSSSSSSSSSSSS Is suddenly so offensive!! GAWD 
I've always said that all this Politically Correct shit is 
!MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
YES - the rottie club is in total disarray because the President just changed their standard to allow an undock rottie and the description of the undocked tal. Totally RUINS the look of the Rottie NOW they are stuck with what one man did to destroy their breed. The people did not pay attention and act qucikly and now they have to live with it and it means that SOON the will not be allowed to dock. We must be vigilant, we must take ever opportuntity to educate folks to all the AR crap that has filter into their thinking. That is exactly where all this stems from.
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FredC
In ways it feels like a moot point because the only vets who still crop are old timers past retirement. I have yet to meet a young Veterinarian who does ear cropping.
iceman
Active Member
Dobs4ever
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I said it about 5 or 6 years ago when DPCA was in a big fight in California to stop the ban - New vets here led by the AVMA are being taught a strong AR agenda in school and are taught it is cruel. So if you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a vet license and then accept that some surgeries are cruel then ALL ARE CRUEL. So no more spay/neuter!!!
The old vetss oppose the Avma and they had to rescind their antil crop agenda a couple years ago but you can be sur they still teach it in school and they will bring it back.
Vets works for their patients NOT THE AVMA ...........If breeds go extinct then we won't need vets so they are cutting their noses off to spite their faces.
The old vetss oppose the Avma and they had to rescind their antil crop agenda a couple years ago but you can be sur they still teach it in school and they will bring it back.
Vets works for their patients NOT THE AVMA ...........If breeds go extinct then we won't need vets so they are cutting their noses off to spite their faces.
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
Remember when they worked HARD to get a law passed that only VETS could do certain procedures???? Rabies is an example - vet techs can no longer give rabies shots - they have to go call the vet in - HOW stupid is that???? It also meant the end of breeders being able to buy the shots and give themselves. Now it does not take a rocket scientist or plastic surgeon to give a shot. A shot is a shot and you still had to fill out the paperwork and it came with a tag to prove the dog had the shot.
It meant that when you HAD to come in for your FORCED rabies shot they pushed the other shots on you as well and you just pray you dog does not have a bad reaction and they kill your dog..... The vet community that is newer has LOST all MY respect for now and forever.
It meant that when you HAD to come in for your FORCED rabies shot they pushed the other shots on you as well and you just pray you dog does not have a bad reaction and they kill your dog..... The vet community that is newer has LOST all MY respect for now and forever.
They can give others, but not rabies? 
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
That is correct -
BTW - I have tried to push it but everyone is afraid to piss the vets of......We have midwives - homes nurses etc - Technical schools and I say we have clinics where people who want to learn to crop like our dying breeders croppers who have cropped for years can be trianed to crop by our old time croppers. A dying art form - You do not have to be a vet to successfully crop ears and anyone can dock that knows what they are doing.
Then we could say SCREW you AVMA and AR infected vets - we can do our own and WE DON:T NEED YOU. I have lost 3 puppies over the years at cropping ALL done by vets - I have never lost a puppy done by a breeder cropper!!! Anyone can learn how to administer the anesthia. Having attend over 300 ear crops in my lifetime I can tell you you quickly learn what and how to give it so the puppies are asleep just like when a vet does it. We have given them WAY too much power. And now they only want to work 9 to 5 and off thurs fri and sat and take no after hours calls.
In the old days we worked hand in hand with our vets and they taught us how to do some things ourselves to help us succeed on the farm. Today they wanted the whole enchillada and then they didn't want to do the work. The new vets don't know their butt from a whole in the ground. They are schooled in running test, blood work, shots, and spay netuer - anything else you are charge 500.00 for the test thent hey tell you to go to the emergevny clinic so you can be charged another $3 to $5,000 dollars for them to do what my vet does in his office EVERY SINGLE day.
BTW - I have tried to push it but everyone is afraid to piss the vets of......We have midwives - homes nurses etc - Technical schools and I say we have clinics where people who want to learn to crop like our dying breeders croppers who have cropped for years can be trianed to crop by our old time croppers. A dying art form - You do not have to be a vet to successfully crop ears and anyone can dock that knows what they are doing.
Then we could say SCREW you AVMA and AR infected vets - we can do our own and WE DON:T NEED YOU. I have lost 3 puppies over the years at cropping ALL done by vets - I have never lost a puppy done by a breeder cropper!!! Anyone can learn how to administer the anesthia. Having attend over 300 ear crops in my lifetime I can tell you you quickly learn what and how to give it so the puppies are asleep just like when a vet does it. We have given them WAY too much power. And now they only want to work 9 to 5 and off thurs fri and sat and take no after hours calls.
In the old days we worked hand in hand with our vets and they taught us how to do some things ourselves to help us succeed on the farm. Today they wanted the whole enchillada and then they didn't want to do the work. The new vets don't know their butt from a whole in the ground. They are schooled in running test, blood work, shots, and spay netuer - anything else you are charge 500.00 for the test thent hey tell you to go to the emergevny clinic so you can be charged another $3 to $5,000 dollars for them to do what my vet does in his office EVERY SINGLE day.
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