Doberman Pedigree- European Bloodline Locations

[Kbailey34]

Hey Guys!

I have American/European mix, but both of my dog's parents were bred in US. Dad is a IPO 3A Champ and Mom is an Agility Champ. They're pedigrees are readily available and before purchasing my pup, I looked through longevity and causes of death in his ancestors, but what wasn't clear is what part of Europe his lines might have originated from.

I know with GSD, working bloodlines often followed different regions of Europe and that different regions produced dogs that were more or less likely to "mature" at a certain age, would likely be bigger or smaller, or have a certain temperment or traits (more mouthy, more capable of developing an off switch) ...

Anywho, I wonder if the same can be done for working doberman lines. Like I know in general that German lines are still usually working lines and are smaller than most eastern European working and show lines.

... just thought I would post my thoughts and see if anyone else has any interesting information on this subject or could provide advice on how you determine where dogs along my pups pedigree originate.

Thanks

 

[Oh Little Oji]

I've got vom Aurachgrund on one side of my guy. From Germany and I've seen a couple small working Dobes out of them. Mooreiche appears a lot on the other side. I actually don't know where in Europe they come from. As with most all working Dobes I've seen, my guy and those most that I've seen related to him are not very physically impressive or attractive. But that's not what they were bred for.

 

[Ravenbird]

just thought I would post my thoughts and see if anyone else has any interesting information on this subject or could provide advice on how you determine where dogs along my pups pedigree originate.

I love to look at pedigrees - there's a website on working dogs (all breeds) that could help you. I'll see if I can find the link. Without you listing your dogs name/pedigree I can't help with where your pups ancestors originate. Are you going into IGP work with him? We have a section here on DCF for working sports you might want to browse. How old is your puppy? Would love to see more photos!

 

[Kbailey34]

I've got vom Aurachgrund on one side of my guy. From Germany and I've seen a couple small working Dobes out of them. Mooreiche appears a lot on the other side. I actually don't know where in Europe they come from. As with most all working Dobes I've seen, my guy and those most that I've seen related to him are not very physically impressive or attractive. But that's not what they were bred for.

Right, exactly. I've heard this about German lines. It's all so interesting!

 

[Kbailey34]

I love to look at pedigrees - there's a website on working dogs (all breeds) that could help you. I'll see if I can find the link. Without you listing your dogs name/pedigree I can't help with where your pups ancestors originate. Are you going into IGP work with him? We have a section here on DCF for working sports you might want to browse. How old is your puppy? Would love to see more photos!

Yes, please. I'd love that. My pup, Rajah will be 2 on April 24th. He's from oldfort dobermans in Tennessee. His mother is Gretchen Der Beschutzer and his father is Marco Vom Landgraf from Apexe Dobermans. I don't have plans for IGP. My brother competes so we occasionally go to practice. Rajah could definitely get a BH if I took the time and maybe a 1, but im not sure he has the temperament to compete on a high level. Right now I don't have the time or focus, but I love the sport and love learning about it.

 

[Ravenbird]

His mother is Gretchen Der Beschutzer and his father is Marco Vom Landgraf from Apexe Dobermans.

I couldn't find Gretchen Der Beschutzer in these databases, but Marco Vom Landgraf is very well known. Nice dog!!! Go to Working-dog.com and under "dogs" go to "search". Another pedigree search is Pedigree Online | Dog Pedigree Database. but I believe this is based on you entering the dog, so may not have totally reliable info. Since Gretchen isn't in there you could try entering her sire/dam etc to find info. Then there is this one that includes longevity and COD, so this is probably the one you already looked at: Pedigrees of dobermanns - and another pedigree search is Dobequest. If you are just looking for country of origin of the ancestors it's on your AKC pedigree (which you have to purchase from AKC) - names in the pedigree which are not AKC will have a different initial in front of their registration number. The Russian dogs in mines pedigree is RKF. Hope this helps, have fun with your searches and info!

I'd love to see pictures & hear stories of your dog - a very athletic pedigree! And I'd like to know about his personality. Since Marco was obviously a top working dog, and Gretchen a show type but very active athlete I'm curious if Rajah is the perfect sweet dog, just tough enough but not too crazy. Does he whine? It's everyones dream to find a non-whining Dobe...

 

[Kbailey34]

Rajahs breeder, Rene likes to keep females, and trains for Agility, her dogs are quite good, and she breeds to IPO proven males. I liked the concept and with her being so close in location, and she health test, I decided to go with her for a puppy.

Thanks for the links! Gretchen probably isn't on there because I think Rene focuses on AKC and health specific stuff.

I'll attach some of my favorite pictures. I can talk about my boy ALL day! I love him to bits. I'd say his only true "fault" is how talkative he is, anything else is handler/training error with my first dobe. Any level of dissatisfaction, frustration, or lack of comfort and I will get an earful from him. He was The Most vocal in his litter, even at a couple of weeks, so your question about whether or not he whines, really made me laugh, like belly hurting laugh. He had A Lot of feelings and likes to express them all. He even regularly will be relaxing, fully on gis side in his crate, but grumbling and whinin,, probably just because the door is closed. Letting me know that even though he's comfortable, he would prefer not to be in there at the moment.

To put it plainly, Rajah is a good boy and my best friend. Probably middle of the road in temperament. Good food drive, medium to high (not ipo high) ball/tug drive. Friendly and goofy with those he knows, suspicious of strangers but willing to make friends, with anyone, men, women, kids ... he's incredibly athletic, but he doesn't always know it and may require some encouragement to try something new. He's still very immature and it shows in his level of alertness (high) when we're somewhere new and has has tendency to get overstimulated, he can also hold grudges lol. Though he would definitely prefer to avoid conflict, I think he would stand his ground, if truly threatened. He hasn't been put under any true pressure when we've gone with my brother to IPO practice, so idk for sure yet.

He's pretty close to perfect at nearly 2 years old, smart, athletic, sweet, prefers me over everyone, alert, great with my senior dog, and handsome ... and while i don't want time to move too fast, I'm really excited to see how great he'll be at around 4 when he's fully mature, and I'll hopefully be better as his handler. I think he'll be everything he is now, with loads more confidence.

 

[Kbailey34]

Rajahs breeder, Rene likes to keep females, and trains for Agility, her dogs are quite good, and she breeds to IPO proven males. I liked the concept and with her being so close in location, and she health test, I decided to go with her for a puppy.

Thanks for the links! Gretchen probably isn't on there because I think Rene focuses on AKC and health specific stuff.

I'll attach some of my favorite pictures. I can talk about my boy ALL day! I love him to bits. I'd say his only true "fault" is how talkative he is, anything else is handler/training error with my first dobe. Any level of dissatisfaction, frustration, or lack of comfort and I will get an earful from him. He was The Most vocal in his litter, even at a couple of weeks, so your question about whether or not he whines, really made me laugh, like belly hurting laugh. He had A Lot of feelings and likes to express them all. He even regularly will be relaxing, fully on gis side in his crate, but grumbling and whinin,, probably just because the door is closed. Letting me know that even though he's comfortable, he would prefer not to be in there at the moment.

To put it plainly, Rajah is a good boy and my best friend. Probably middle of the road in temperament. Good food drive, medium to high (not ipo high) ball/tug drive. Friendly and goofy with those he knows, suspicious of strangers but willing to make friends, with anyone, men, women, kids ... he's incredibly athletic, but he doesn't always know it and may require some encouragement to try something new. He's still very immature and it shows in his level of alertness (high) when we're somewhere new and has has tendency to get overstimulated, he can also hold grudges lol. Though he would definitely prefer to avoid conflict, I think he would stand his ground, if truly threatened. He hasn't been put under any true pressure when we've gone with my brother to IPO practice, so idk for sure yet.

He's pretty close to perfect at nearly 2 years old, smart, athletic, sweet, prefers me over everyone, alert, great with my senior dog, and handsome ... and while i don't want time to move too fast, I'm really excited to see how great he'll be at around 4 when he's fully mature, and I'll hopefully be better as his handler. I think he'll be everything he is now, with loads more confidence.

 

[Ravenbird]

He looks awesome! Handsome sidekick he has too! We have lots of threads in the sports departments, I hope you do things with him and post your adventures there. Several of us do Fast Cats - so much fun for the dogs and not much training. With both his parents so athletic I think he could do anything you put the effort into. Since you have a club to visit you can have fun with that. I got my dog for IGP but realized it's insanely hard without a local club. I just got my BH and I plan to just have fun with it. I've dabbled in everything just to keep my girl busy!

 

[Kbailey34]

Lol thank you! That's his little, big sister, Mirage

Yes! We just started health testing since he's at that age. A local show in May will have our local dobe club so they'll perform a WAE, so he'll have a busy weekend with his first hip and elbow exams, the WAE and the CAT and/or FAST CAT

 

[Rits]

I'd say his only true "fault" is how talkative he is,

He had A Lot of feelings and likes to express them all.

This is my only complaint with the breed. At times it's endearing but other times it's downright annoying so to say. I deal with it but would rather them not be so whiny!! Ripley vocalizes everything, you will know her feelings just like your boy! Right now it's 3:30am and we are in a hotel room, she whined to go potty (yay) but now she's whining because she would like to be in the King sized bed with us and not in her kennel. She will eventually give up, like she always does because she's never once been allowed to whine and then "oh yes, please join us!" Never ever given in to, Lord no!!! But she whines like she has. She's just that vocal about her emotions. In public it can be embarrassing, but everyone thinks it's "cute" and looks at her, which feeds into the attention seeking and rewards the behavior. *Sigh* lol so you aren't alone!

Welcome! I'm on my first doberman too. They are so versatile and great. If you let them, they'll take you through all the fun sports! Have loads of fun with your boy and please do share your adventures with him in the performance section of the forum! These guys are so fun!

 

[Ravenbird]

At times it's endearing but other times it's downright annoying so to say. I deal with it but would rather them not be so whiny!! Ripley vocalizes everything

Exactly. If Asha is awake, she's usually got something to say.

@Rits do you know of a list of what country abbreviations mean on AKC pedigree? The letters WS is in front of all the reg. #'s of American dogs in Ashas pedigree and RKF is in front of the Russian dogs (Russian Kennel Federation???) But I have several I don't know: LOF, WR, WP (thought those were American dogs, but maybe not?), DZB, and HR. Since that's what @Kbailey34 was originally asking, and I'm thinking you have a pretty diverse pedigree so maybe you know these things?

 

[Rits]

Exactly. If Asha is awake, she's usually got something to say.

@Rits do you know of a list of what country abbreviations mean on AKC pedigree? The letters WS is in front of all the reg. #'s of American dogs in Ashas pedigree and RKF is in front of the Russian dogs (Russian Kennel Federation???) But I have several I don't know: LOF, WR, WP (thought those were American dogs, but maybe not?), DZB, and HR. Since that's what @Kbailey34 was originally asking, and I'm thinking you have a pretty diverse pedigree so maybe you know these things?

I think the W's are American/AKC registered dogs. I am not sure about the rest! Maybe @Panama knows?

 

[Panama]

Correct @Rits , the W is the only first letter AKC has used for the Dobermans that I'm aware of.

 

[Ravenbird]

W is the only first letter AKC has used for the Dobermans that I'm aware of

Any idea what the second letters mean? WR, WP? Or the Foreign Country initials? I'm trying to find a list on AKC but must not be searching it correctly.

 

[Panama]

Here's a screen shot of part of the break down (link enclosed for further info)



Understanding an AKC registration number - Page 1

 

[Ravenbird]

Thanks, that makes sense on the ones I was thinking were American, but didn't start with WS.

I found this, but it still doesn't help with the first 2 or 3 letters in front of the reg.# on a foreign dog.

https://cdn.marketplace.akc.org/media/90821/1505975916_4757_832.pdf

 

[Panama]

the first 2 or 3 letters in front of the reg.# on a foreign dog.

You'd probably have to tap into whatever Registry the dog is registered with. I just typed in 'What do the letter of my dogs AKC registration number stand for?' Maybe just change AKC to whatever registry you're looking for.

 

[Ravenbird]

You'd probably have to tap into whatever Registry the dog is registered with

So I did try this, just googling the "what country does ___ mean on dog registry #" and got 2 of them. LOF is France and HR is Croatia. I'm looking for the country where the dog came from, so I can't start with that. A fun puzzle for sure.

 

[Dasz88]

KBailey, your boy is so handsome!!! Love the pic of him being your hat lol! This is interesting, I know Gilly's pedigree shows American and apparently Yugoslavian lineage, but I'll check and see what the letters in front of the Yugoslavian ancestors names are, and report back!