Doberman history tidbit

[Ravenbird]

I was dusting the other day and thought I should post pictures of this vintage Doberman, cast in iron it weighs 5 pounds, which is hefty for a small statue! It's from the 1940's or '50s, of the famous Muck v. Brunia. I'd found this history about him several years ago, and a short search found it for me again.

It's fun but time consuming to trace your tail male line (the tippy top sires) all the way back to the 1920's to see if Muck is there. I posted about this years ago, but thought I'd renew it for fun. Since there are many South American lines in our American pedigrees today, I do think I remember that a couple of those do NOT go back to Muck.

The article, with additional great rabbit-hole material:

Muck von Brunia and Genetic Bottlenecks

Muck von Brunia (1929 - 1940)A good source of information about the early history of the DV (German Doberman Club) can be found in a book called "100 Jarhe Dobermann-Verein E.V. 1899 - 1999". It's a yearly chronicle of the German Doberman Club from its inception in 1899 until its one hundred...

www.totaldobe.com

The old iron Doberman himself:

 

[BGpa]

I was dusting the other day and thought I should post pictures of this vintage Doberman, cast in iron it weighs 5 pounds, which is hefty for a small statue! It's from the 1940's or '50s, of the famous Muck v. Brunia. I'd found this history about him several years ago, and a short search found it for me again.

It's fun but time consuming to trace your tail male line (the tippy top sires) all the way back to the 1920's to see if Muck is there. I posted about this years ago, but thought I'd renew it for fun. Since there are many South American lines in our American pedigrees today, I do think I remember that a couple of those do NOT go back to Muck.

The article, with additional great rabbit-hole material:

Muck von Brunia and Genetic Bottlenecks

Muck von Brunia (1929 - 1940)A good source of information about the early history of the DV (German Doberman Club) can be found in a book called "100 Jarhe Dobermann-Verein E.V. 1899 - 1999". It's a yearly chronicle of the German Doberman Club from its inception in 1899 until its one hundred...

www.totaldobe.com

The old iron Doberman himself:

View attachment 162766View attachment 162767

Wonderful!
The author of that article is another follower of Ray Carlisle, and Vic Monteleone, and explains the "total dog" philosophy well. Bookmarked!

del'Aglio Dobermans - working Doberman Pinschers and dog training

Breeder of working Doberman Pinschers and dog training based in Staten Island, New York.

www.totaldobe.com

 

[remy]

I looked and he is in Remy’s pedigree (tail male) 17 generations back. Remy’s great grandsire is Argentinian but goes back to North American lines.

 

[Ravenbird]

I looked and he is in Remy’s pedigree (tail male) 17 generations back.

He is 21 generations back on Ashas Tail Male
He is 17 generations back on Dietrich's Tail Male (Dietrich was my girl born in 1991)

I do remember when I'd first read about almost every single Doberman tracing back to Muck I also did the other male lines in Ashas pedigree and I think all but one string led to Muck. It was one of those moments when I realized why genetic COI is so important and Pedigree COI means very little. In other words having no common ancestors in the first 4 generations doesn't mean the dog has a low genetic COI.

Next time I have a time slot for goofing off, I will trace all the male lines in Asha pedigree, to remind me how many times Muck appears.

All roads lead to Muck...

 

[Nordika]

Since there are many South American lines in our American pedigrees today, I do think I remember that a couple of those do NOT go back to Muck.

My boy's sire line is SA and does not go back to Muck, but to Helios. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing but of course Muck is mucking things up elsewhere in the pedigree.

There are no common ancestors in his 4 gen pedigree, there are of course many, and much linebreeding but farther back.

 

[Rits]

Since there are many South American lines in our American pedigrees today, I do think I remember that a couple of those do NOT go back to Muck.

Interesting! Trendy does not have Muck on her Sire line (goes through the popular SA line of Trotyl and Lex Luther) and I wonder if that is why she has unique haplotypes compared to the breed average? She goes back to Westphalia's Uranus and not Muck. I found it really neat to see she is similar in build as him. That well ( a little too well) angulated croup has been carried through her pedigree for generations. Its a huge reason why we turned our focus away from AKC confo for her, she just stands out too much with it next to all of the under angulated/flat croups in the ring. She would need a handler or some maturity. I'm excited to see her really mature after her first litter. Her mother, Ripley, blossomed after hers!


Trendy



Westphalia's Uranus


18 months


2 years 4 months



2 years 8 months (she's matured A LOT in just 4 months!)


Her mother Ripley also goes back to Westphalia's Uranus. I'll check my other Ripley kids. Cool thread!

 

[Rits]

My boy's sire line is SA and does not go back to Muck, but to Helios. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing but of course Muck is mucking things up elsewhere in the pedigree.

There are no common ancestors in his 4 gen pedigree, there are of course many, and much linebreeding but farther back.

As I looked further, I realized this is where mine go to also. Lex was a very influential addition to NA lines.

 

[Nordika]

As I looked further, I realized this is where mine go to also. Lex was a very influential addition to NA lines.

Lex Luthor is also on his dam's tail male line as well. Astor's(a Helios son)grand dam, Westphalia Prinsessin Ilisa VD Konigstad (1925), won Best in Show at Westminster.

History tidbit: The Westphalia dogs were favored by early American pioneers like Glenn S. Staines for their temperament and trainability, particularly in the development of guide dogs for the blind. Staines (1886–1951) was a pivotal figure in the breed, serving as the first president of the Doberman Pinscher Club of America (1929–1931) and founding Pontchartrain Kennels. He was instrumental in shifting the breed's focus from purely conformation to working ability, particularly through his pioneering work training Dobermans as guide dogs for the blind. Staines established the Path-Finder School in 1938 to train guide dogs. His kennel produced over 1,000 Pathfinder Dobermans.