Doberman traits changing over the years

[Kaiser2016]

did the man really not foresee that throwing that stick into the raging river would cause Jake to jump in?

That part caught me off guard too.

Also, notice that Jake could easily swim whereas most Dobes nowadays can't/don't want to. Reading about Jake was great and in particular that he didn't need SO much training.

What about the maturity factor? I know Oji has mentioned it many times in other threads, but it really takes a male Doberman so much time to 'get there'. Since age 5, Kaiser has gone from high energy crazy devil to becoming more like a dream dog. He's more of a pleasure to be with nowadays and you can trust his judgment. He's confident and more secure in himself. I'm sure there was some delay in his development just due to us learning along the way. Maybe a second Doberman would develop into a dream dog sooner.

It also seems that Dobermans possess more of a goofy side to them and maybe that is a result of them living so closely with people and being so spoiled lol. I do think they have an uncanny ability to read moods and break the tension by using their goofy behavior to defuse the situation at home, whereas outside they remain alert and vigilant when something feels off.

One thing that I think hasn't changed is their love for adventure. Some breeds may love being at home, but the Doberman is definitely all about taking on the world together with their favorite person/people. I think we could all write a story similar to Jake, give or take a few details - they do make a lasting impact and wouldn't we all love to have the offspring of our Dobe just so we can hang on to the memory of the original.

 

[Ravenbird]

What about the maturity factor?

I think it's another difference! Never had a male, so can't speak on that, but Dietrich could stay uncrated in the house by 5 or 6 months. The only thing I couldn't teach her was to not eat cat poop out of the litter box or cat food which was out 24/7. So I just made sure she couldn't reach it. Days I had to go to be gone (worked horses from home mostly, but then had to haul to the track on race days or for training), I would leave her on a trolly line up to 10 hours in the back yard. OMFG, I would never do that now. But she just hung out. She had shade & water. Did this probably a dozen times between 6 months and a year old. Then she went with me to run horses in California when she was just turning a year old. Motels, living in a dorm situation with erratic schedule of training hours 5 - 10 a.m. and racing hours at night from 7 - 11 p.m. So even if I wasn't involved half the people in the dorm rooms were coming and going at all hours. Then Phoenix at about a year & 3 months: I'd leave her in the Motel 6 with a Do Not Disturb sign while I was at the track from 5 a.m. til 10 a.m., come back and get her, take her for walks in the city parks, etc. Found a short lease apartment after a week or two and then it was better, but still. She was mature, took everything in stride, could be left alone anywhere, never shredded a thing, never barked or whined or cried. Loved everyone she met. For a dog to be so "whole" at less than 1 1/2 seems like a sweet dream to me now.

Could I do that with the dog I have today? nope. Not even now, fully mature. Not because she's a bad dog, but she just isn't cut out to be chill with every change of scenery. She has to watch, to be vigilant, to be suspicious and to ward off anyone or anything that she doesn't approve of. Did I ask for a protection dog? yes. Did I tell my breeder I wanted to pull not push? yes. I don't mind what I have, it's just way more than I ever imagined came in a Doberman suit. I thought I'd get another Dietrich with a stronger defense and a little more drive. I got a Mal without the hair shedding.

It also seems that Dobermans possess more of a goofy side to them

Maybe it's because I never had a male dog, but none of my 3 female Dobermans were goofy. I see it all the time here in stories and photos, but if I've seen it, it was so fleeting it didn't stick in my memory.

 

[Ravenbird]

One thing that I think hasn't changed is their love for adventure.

100% yes!!! Adventure is their middle name!

I think we could all write a story similar to Jake, give or take a few details - they do make a lasting impact and wouldn't we all love to have the offspring of our Dobe just so we can hang on to the memory of the original.

Yes, Yes, Yes. We could all write stories. And no matter the struggles they all need to be told as they help someone else (or someone else's dog!) down the line.

A million times: this thread is not about complaints it's just observations. I got the dog I needed. She's taught me 100x more than a perfect dog would have. She needs me and I need her.

 

[BGpa]

I've read a couple interesting comments about dobie evolution in breed books, and elsewhere.

One was that "the Army gave training of the Donermans to the Marines (sometime before WW2) "because they were so vicious"...

The Marines revered the dogs for their bravery in the Pacific, see Guadacanal, and a memorial to Dobermans in Guam.

This reputation corresponds to another read about how American breeders made a decision sometime after that to turn the breed into a more reliable home safe temperament, vs the German standard of "boldness" and "sharpness" that was breed standard desirable, to the point that some judges wouldnt work with one German champion (forget the name starts with F)...

So the evolution of the AKC American Doberman standard was not just conformation but more about desired temperament.

We had our byb pup initially trained (well, actually they were training us... as Dear Wife (DW) will take guidance if paying for it...

And the trainer has worked with dobes for years (40 years now doing LEO/Mil for several agencies in area), but has now shifted to GSD or Mals as thats what agencies are using, vs dobes. I'll see if I can ask about it.

What I read somewhere is Dobies are ok on beginning bitesport but fail vs GSDs as "Dobies dont like to release on command".

Only a year old now but I see my Bonnies key drive is "tug-o-war" which I speculate comes from the breeds ratter terrier background of Welsh Black and Tans, the Manchester Terrier precursors that were used as barn, farm and fox killers by game keepers in UK. That neck shake is to break the neck...

If Mr Dobermann and his admirers set out to crossbreed and then purebreed to purpose as "the only breed specifically bred for man protection" (wikipedia iirc), then it stands to reason there will be fierceness, as a desired trait. There's a german word for this...

One last anecdote: A friend has a high-end expensive Euro working dog trained by her high-end trainer 3 generations in Dobes. Bonnie and her intact male were wrestling buddies until he came into his hormones...

That male dobe is a completely different dog than our byb american female...annnd, you dont see it at the dogpark anymore...

 

[BGpa]

Appreciate your history Tad, thank you for sharing about your dobes.
Here is something I found on rage syndrome years ago. My vet way back then said it was originially called Spaniel Rage due to that breed showing a tendancy for it....but he had seen it across the breeds. Just thought I would share.

RAGE SYNDROME IN DOGS SUDDEN ONSET IDIOPATHIC AGRESSION Symptoms of SOIA involve the dog acting extremely aggressively seemingly out of nowhere. In documented cases, the dog acts completely normal leading up to and directly after the aggressive attack. However, during the attack, the dog may seem disoriented and may not respond to attempts to stop the attack. In most cases,what triggers this behavior outburst cannot be identified, but outbursts are uninhibited and severe.
In many cases, owners report that the dog’s eyes glaze over and their pupils dilate or that the dog becomesstiff directly before an attack. SOIA usually begins presenting in dogs between 7 months and 3 years of age.SOIA is not a contracted disease like rabies, rather a genetic abnormality that is still in the early stages ofbeing studied.

The bad news about SOIA is that when a dog actually has it, the condition is rarely treatable. If your trainer orbehavior professional suggests that your dog may have SOIA, then a trip to a veterinary behaviorist is in order.Some dogs will respond to different drug therapies, and there have been minor successes in treatingindividuals with phenobarbital (common for epilepsy or seizure disorders). But because the nature of thisdisorder indicates that the cause or triggers of this rare type of aggressive outburst are generally notidentifiable, medical and behavioral intervention is extremely difficult and frequently unsuccessful.

Since true SOIA is truly violent and totally unpredictable; in many cases of dogs with diagnosed SOIA, the

recommended solution is humane euthanasia.
Sudden Onset Idiopathic Aggression in dogs appears very similar to schizophrenia in humans. It usuallymanifests between six months to 2 years old and is more common in males than females. Episodes tend tocome in groups of three which progressively worsen. Again, I want you to understand there is no knowncausation and this syndrome is rare. That being said, the following are what I call the red flags whendetermining if aggressive behavior is correctable.

The dog attacks without provocation. One minute he is content to be petted, or sleeping or relaxing, the nexthe attacks.

Dog attacks without warning. Most dogs growl, snarl, tense and give us any number of indications they areangry and want you to back off. A dog with SOIA gives no warning at all. (see below)

Dog's eyes may glaze and body become stiff. Because it is believed an SOIA episode is some type ofseizure, a dog’s pupils may dilate completely making the eyes look like black voids. Sometimes the bodybecomes rigid immediately before he attacks. This posture is the only warning an owner may get and thedangerous attack is almost immediate.

There is no remorse or recollection. I think this flag is the most unique. We all know the pitiful posture ourdogs take when they are guilty or remorseful and how they make us feel like it’s our fault they’re in trouble. Atthe end of a Rage episode, a dog shows no sign of remorse. In fact, it becomes obvious the dog has no cluewhy everyone is mad and upset. A dog coming out of a rage episode looks much like a dog coming out of aseizure. He is disoriented, tired, unsure what is going on around him and he is needy – which is tough when theperson who just got bit needs stitches.

Bumped as its so useful. Saw reference to a recent story on this elsewhere. Ty.

 

[Cferg]

One last anecdote: A friend has a high-end expensive Euro working dog trained by her high-end trainer 3 generations in Dobes. Bonnie and her intact male were wrestling buddies until he came into his hormones...

That male dobe is a completely different dog than our byb american female...annnd, you dont see it at the dogpark anymore...

How is it completely different than your dog? I’m curious. And why can’t your friend wrestle with the dog anymore?

 

[BGpa]

How is it completely different than your dog? I’m curious. And why can’t your friend wrestle with the dog anymore?

Pm me.