Bullmastiffs

So yeah, the CAS and me. I am still in that train car and I have to say I am more excited about this breed as a possibility for my family than I have been about any of the others.

Yes, it's to a certain extent a departure from the Mastiff types (but I heard it described as a Molosser type, which makes a lot of sense to me) and two main questions remain: barking and whining. On this front, I have not to date seen any – any – video footage of the dogs whining. I have seen some of barking but it was mainly in one video of a guy who keeps dogs behind fences and does not introduce them to strangers. These dogs seem to be of a different type by their appearance as well. This was in another country. I have heard that they are nighttime barkers, and I hope and assume this means if left outdoors all night.

On the shedding: Well, that is the greatest concession I'd be making. They shed. I saw a vid from the breeder I'd be buying from, and it brought memories immediately back of my wife's late Husky. The dog, although its coat was not as profuse as a Husky, had those lumps of fur coming out – molting. The breeder reached down and pulled out fingers full of coat, just like I've done with the Husky.

The breeder, as I said, answered the phone promptly and actually spoke to me. They are in MI. They are active in making videos, and I'm learning a lot from them. She said I should buy her book, but I don't feel that I'd gain the kind of information I need to help me in my decision. I need practical info. on what it's like to live with the breed, and I'm seeking those answers. Eventually, if I get the breed, I would like to have the book. Lord knows I obtained every Doberman book I could get my hands on in the early days of my Dobe ownership.

As stated, and unless the info. is out of date, which I really really hope it is not, the price is not out of line with the norm and it includes ear cropping!

I continue to like what I learn about the breed. They are touted as good guard dogs – pretty serious in this regard. In fact, I from what I keep hearing, I am not sure I would be able to teach it to accept unfamiliar people into the home upon command. That is a big question, yes. The thing is, I have been very concerned with all the other breeds I've considered that they would not bring it in the guarding department. I see a ton of giddy tail wagging in Cane Corsos and other breeds!

I am seeing a lot of vids from the breeder of her dogs being loved on by her – them laying together and her massaging that copious dewlap and that big impressive head and those very short cropped ears. The dogs have been very calm in all the videos. I know they must have energy, but she says they only need about an hour of exercise a day, and they reserve their energy.

About those ears: Call me on jumping the posting ship, but I've paid my dues with posting and the stress of hoping they'll stand – especially with my first Dobe. With the CAS, I get killer looking cropped ears and I don't think they need any cropping! They are just cropped essentially all the freaking way off – ha! I can't tell you how enjoyable that is going to be for me. I am adamant that I want cropped ears for a number of reasons, one of them being and in-your-face to the bleeding heart animal rights wackos, and the other being that I believe it will be outlawed nationwide at some point. This, in addition to the very practical reasons I believe in ear cropping.

The tail is docked, so no coffee table clearing. It is docked long, which I have railed against in other breeds like the Corso, but it looks better in most cases because it is thicker with fur, and it tends to not be so silly rapidly wagging (though you do get some not so great wagginess of those tails).

I get good height, which has become very very important to me, and I get respectable bodyweight and impressive size, and again, this appears to be a capable breed.

It is not nearly as popular as the Corso (good!!) and it doesn't seem to be so popular as the Corso and the Boerboel are with (how do I say it) well, it is mostly popular with people "who look like me." Judge me if you will, but it matters. I don't see a whole lot (watch me find out this is not really the case) of people pretending to be all bad ass on social media with them – this, aside from the supersized ones I've already touched upon.

My wife has a strong negative reaction to the very short crops; but I think the more she sees of it the more used to it she will become :) Really, I argue that it is not worse or harder on the dog at all to have a very short crop. Think about it: It is probably quite a bit easier on the dog. Take Dobermans. They have a lot more ear left on, and thus are going to be more aware of it, and they have to go through months and months of posting. How is that better and easier on the dog? Negative reactions like my wife's to the very short crop are not logical.

I'm liking this one, folks!
 
Oh, and it looks like there is health testing after all – at least hips and elbows. So, not just a guarantee.

And, the breeder wants you to keep in touch – monthly! Wow.

Oh, and, their website says that if you put a CGC on your dog, they will issue you a $300 refund on the price of the dog!! I have never wanted to do a CGC, as I don't want that level of friendliness, but with this breed I would think it would be a good thing.
 
This is the breeder I'm talking about. She says the pup is probably 22 pounds. So, 9 - 11 weeks, I'm guessing. ?

Where is the biting??
 
As far as breed popularity: Happened to see a sponsored story on the 'book regarding the 50 most popular breeds in the US. The dog featured on the "cover" of this story? A cropped Cane Corso. Cropped! So, the Corso comes in at (jumping significantly) 25. The Doberman (pictured uncropped and undocked) at 18. The Corso, I think is the only breed shown cropped. So, the cropping culture is pretty alive and well in just a few breeds such as the Corso, and I find this very interesting. Why do we think this is?

As expected, the Boxer an the Dane are shown uncropped. It's fallen considerably further out of favor to crop those two breeds than it has the Dobe.

The ranking list speaks to the skyrocketing popularity of the Corso as well as the enduring popularity of the Dobe.

How can the Dobe remain so popular? It feels to me like a relative fringe breed, despite how sweet it is and how many people want it uncropped and undocked and just to be a wallflower, and active buddy – no different than the inexplicably popular Boxer, Weimaraner, Visla and German Shorthaired Pointer.

Other breeds I find to be of interest:

50. Chesapeake Bay Retriever (thought of as the best guard dog of the retrievers)
42. Ridgeback
41. Newfie
39 Weimaraner
37. Malinois
35. Visla
33. Mastiff (I assume English)
32. Border Collie (talk about hard to explain, given its activity level!)
25. Cane Corso
18. Doberman
15. Great Dane
14. Boxer
9. GSP
8. Rott
6. Standard Poodle (I feel the "Doodles" have upped the popularity of the Standard, but admittedly I have not followed it through the years)
4. Golden
3. GSD
2. Frenchie
1. Lab
 
Those central asian shepherd dogs are no joke. I would be more concerned with temperament with them than other breeds you have mentioned such as boerboels. If those are the same dogs I looked into years ago that is.
 
Other breeds I find to be of interest:

50. Chesapeake Bay Retriever (thought of as the best guard dog of the retrievers) no retrievers for me
42. Ridgeback just not my breed
41. Newfie too much hair
39 Weimaraner
37. Malinois too much dog for me
35. Visla
33. Mastiff (I assume English)
32. Border Collie (talk about hard to explain, given its activity level!) too much hair and energy
25. Cane Corso
18. Doberman
15. Great Dane
14. Boxer
9. GSP
8. Rott
6. Standard Poodle (I feel the "Doodles" have upped the popularity of the Standard, but admittedly I have not followed it through the years)
4. Golden gosh no way, overbred and too "okay, whatever you say"
3. GSD way too much hair and way too dime a dozen
2. Frenchie too little and not attractive to me
1. Lab way too dime a dozen around here and another retriever
Just my thoughts on my personal preferences... Of course we all have our different reasons for liking or not preferring any breed.
 
Those central asian shepherd dogs are no joke. I would be more concerned with temperament with them than other breeds you have mentioned such as boerboels. If those are the same dogs I looked into years ago that is.
Yes, I've certainly thought of that, and I still need to find out more. I know there are different lines. I touched upon this a few posts above.

First, I want to make sure you are differentiating the Central Asian Shepherd from the Caucasian Shepherd – the latter being a sharper, overall more aggressive dog less suited for being a pet. Also, note that the word "Ovcharka" (watch me have spelled it wrong, and I'm in a hurry to get up and tuck in the girls) means Shepherd Dog in Russian. So if you see CAO its Central Asian Ovcharka and the CO is the Caucasian Ovcharka. Then, you have the Turkish Kangal, which is held in pretty much that same category as the Caucasian – very hardcore and probably not good for families in general.

I've seen it written that there are three major categories of CAS lines: Livestock guarding, Dog fighting, and Property guarding (the last one being described as the best for a family guardian/pet. I've also read that the lines out of Russia (which is where that breeder got hers) are the best for pets. But yes, I need to find out more information and I'm on the hunt for it.

The breed is said to have developed naturally over 4 or 5 thousand years, but obviously it was guided and shaped by man at some point, and they did not want a dog that would attack the owner or their family. Now, I imagine there were/are lines that are not expected to accept any human except the one person who cares for it. I do keep hearing this is one-family dog and if you expect it to accept certain visitors you should have them visit frequently. This is a breed that is closer to wild, but then again so are many other shepherd type dogs and also some Nordic breeds and so on. I saw it said (yes, just in an internet vid.) that many years ago in their countries of origin, this breed was known, and expected, to never go after children or the weak or helpless. (yes, could just be platitudes, but...)

But yes, I need first-hand accounts from real people (even if I communicate with them over the web, which of course is what we do here at DCF). This is why I have joined a small number of f'bk groups, including one devoted to this breed. The person in charge of the group is actually that breeder. I can learn a lot from not just the posts, but all the comments and pictures. I will require many accounts of this breed doing well in the home with family and I expect pictures of them with children.

I think the CAS requires a no-nonsense, very consistent, fair and in-charge type of leader. The people who kept these dogs as livestock guards in Turkmenistan, and those other "stan" countries were not the touchy feely bleeding heart type. They expected a dog to perform and not step out of line. There were no dogs lounging on couches and beds. If I may say so, that is what I am.

The videos I see from that breeder show calm dogs, and the majority of them show them being loving an even laying with the owner and soaking up the rubs and pets. You also see every one of her dogs, when she calls their name, do the airplane ears and come calmly and happily to her with that tail wagging. They just seem like pretty regular dogs. I've seen this breed play with one another and it's actually not been as vicious seeming as when Dobes play.

It may sound weird, but I feel more "at home" with this breed than any other I've researched. This is especially in contrast with the American Mastiff and the Bullmastiff. All I see and hear there is lounging dogs and how very sweet they are.

But again, I will keep seeing maximum information and truth. This is why I have started so early in my breed/breeder research! :thumbsup:
 
First, I want to make sure you are differentiating the Central Asian Shepherd from the Caucasian Shepherd –
….
The videos I see from that breeder show calm dogs, and the majority of them show them being loving an even laying with the owner and soaking up the rubs and pets. You also see every one of her dogs, when she calls their name, do the airplane ears and come calmly and happily to her with that tail wagging. They just seem like pretty regular dogs. I've seen this breed play with one another and it's actually not been as vicious seeming as when Dobes play.

Hm.. It is possible I am thinking of the Caucasian Shepherd. Sounds like from these videos, these can be a pretty ideal dog. Curious about all the fur though. Even my dane has a softer thicker coat than Jaspers, and her light hair sticks to everything it drives me crazy. Fur is one reason why I crossed a GSD off my list also like Jan mentioned above.
 
Hm.. It is possible I am thinking of the Caucasian Shepherd. Sounds like from these videos, these can be a pretty ideal dog. Curious about all the fur though. Even my dane has a softer thicker coat than Jaspers, and her light hair sticks to everything it drives me crazy. Fur is one reason why I crossed a GSD off my list also like Jan mentioned above.
Yeah, the shedding and fur would be a major concession. I've always limited my search to short haired breeds. I tell myself we might get a lot less drool with the CAS, and I do think that drool would be worse than shedding. My wife all along has been so in favor of a Bullmastiff (if we get another dog) but I really strongly question if she would be okay with the drool, the slingers and the hardened crap up on the walls and ceiling.

We've talked about if we get a shedding dog like the CAS, we could get a couple small, portable, rechargeable vacuums around the house for semi-frequent cleanups. I went through living with a Husky, and although I prefer sweeping over vacuuming because it requires no electricity, the wooly fur that goes airborne when you try to sweep it is very very frustrating.

But yes, the GSD's fur has always had me as a firm no. This, in addition to what Jan said about dime-a-dozen. Oh, and they are barky and whiny. :nono:
 
Drool. Really does suck. I thought it wouldn’t be that big of a deal but Remi is absolutely disgusting lol. The tiny trail of water and drool Jasper leaves after drinking is no comparison to Remi. If she comes up to you for a pet you almost always get a little slime on your clothing. Haven’t noticed any on my walls yet but getting it on my clothing is enough to be a bother.
 
Drool. Really does suck. I thought it wouldn’t be that big of a deal but Remi is absolutely disgusting lol. The tiny trail of water and drool Jasper leaves after drinking is no comparison to Remi. If she comes up to you for a pet you almost always get a little slime on your clothing. Haven’t noticed any on my walls yet but getting it on my clothing is enough to be a bother.
I didn't even think about the drool factor with your Dane pup. I haven't seen any activity for a while now related to your pup on here, but then again despite how long I've been a member here I still seem to be missing something in terms of how to really find everything.
 
At any event with dogs beware the dogs whose owners carry a hand towel!!! :rofl:
I'll never forget some 30 years ago when I was taking my Doberman to obedience class and the class before ours was all Newfoundlands. 5 or 6 of them, all wearing bibs and drooling like nobody's business. Just standing around, not even doing anything! Drool, 8" long, hanging. ICK. They were in some kind of show training, but I thought it was about the grossest thing I'd ever seen. I don't like/will never own any heavy lipped breed, it's just not my thing.
 
A photographer friend recently took a photo shoot of a litter of these pups.

These are the particular pups he photographed.
Nice! That is a different breed than the Central Asian Shepherd (which is called the "Wolf Crusher" so no slouch in its own right), but you probably knew that. :) Them Central Asian Shepherd, or Alabai, is what I'm considering and researching. The dog in the vid you posted above is a Caucasian Shepherd, and is considered more sharp and intense and less suitable as a pet.

Cute pics done by your friend!
 
In fact, I know @Gelcoater has a few times posted a pic of a big old Tibetan Mastiff lunging and I wonder how the Caucasian Shepherd compares to that breed in terms of ultimate toughness and aggressive, damaging potential. I did see somewhere how the two breeds are related to each other, but I forget how.

I do know that I've also heard it posited that the Central Asian Shepherd (Alabai), which goes back some 3 - 5 thousand years, is the foundation of all Mastiffs. Doesn't get much more "O.G." than that, now does it kids?

So, Central Asian Shepherd (or Alabai):

Alabai2.webp

and Caucasian Shepherd:

CaucasianShepherd.webp

and Tibetan Mastiff:

TibetanMastiff.webp
 

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