Barn Hunt Chat
- Thread starter obbanner
- Start date
obbanner
Hot Topics Subscriber
I had another learning moment last weekend. When placing rats in Master, many judges use a technique I picked up from them. They place the permanent bedding, then work down from Rat5 to Rat1. I had a new rat wrangler helping the experienced rat wranglers for a one rat first run of the first blind. She had a tube in her hand and I pointed to Rat5 position and said, "Rat5". She put her tube down. When we got to Rat1, the wrangler said he had a bedding tube. Thank God he was an experience wrangler and knew something was wrong. The new wrangler put the rat in Rat5 because she heard "Rat", so thought she should put down the rat. I learned to say "Position 5" from now on. The worst experiences I had were when rats and beddings got mixed up. One trial I just pulled all the tubes, verified what was what, then reset them.
Another thing I do is when a dog hits hard on a bedding, I verify in front of the handler it's bedding, not a rat, because I want them to be satisfied the dog really made a false call.
obbanner
Hot Topics Subscriber
I judged an event last weekend. There were nothing of note about any of the runs, but I did learn something about hides. I don't like to trick the dogs. There are some natural dogs that are going to dig out the rats no matter where you hide, but the majority of runs are by people who are grinding out titles. I put a bedding tube over the tunnel entrance and a rat behind an angled bale right behind the bedding. There were four dogs in the blind and two dogs called the bedding. The other thing I did I'll never do again was put all 8 rats in Crazy 8s under leaners. Six were on the floor and I didn't think it would be an issue, but three dogs NQ'd because they didn't find a rat! So for Crazy 8s in the future, I'll always put a majority of the tubes not under leaners. A Malamute earned his RATCH and he is the first Malamute to earn a RATCH. The owner was very happy. I knew that was a RATCH leg coming up, and the luck of the draw was he had two rats in the random number draw and positions one and two were the type of hides he's good at finding. I was happy to see him come into the ring with those circumstances.
I always say check your scores in Crazy 8s. I saw that I had a FAIL for AJ's first run. I asked the trial secretary to pull his scribe sheet to see why he failed. He had a FAULT on that run, and the scribe who was a first time scribe marked that as a fail. I also say keep your eye on your dog. I burned myself because when I picked up a rat tube to give to the scribe, AJ found another rat I didn't see.
AJ earned his RATCH and RATCHX at my home club. I want to get a big ribbon at another club. I'm judging four trials next weekend at a five trial event. I want to get his Crazy 8s Platinum there. I was disappointed that AJ had a 20 point run when I was hoping for a 60 point run. He wasn't working good and had a very rare fault when he pawed a bedding that I called as a rat. I later pulled all the recent Q ribbons out of my bag and realized AJ ended the weekend with 1,970 points. If he had a good run that second run, we would have inadvertently got another big ribbon at my home club. I forgot about the event in mid March where I was hospitalized two days later.
We had a fun late Easter party and a birthday. Plastic Easter Eggs with dog treats were put on the ground and dogs could choose their eggs. AJ wasn't interested in the treats but had a smashing good time breaking the eggs open. He ran through the area pouncing on the eggs, they would open and spill the treats, but AJ ignored the treats and moved on to the next egg. Our teacher had a special cake for her birthday.
I always say check your scores in Crazy 8s. I saw that I had a FAIL for AJ's first run. I asked the trial secretary to pull his scribe sheet to see why he failed. He had a FAULT on that run, and the scribe who was a first time scribe marked that as a fail. I also say keep your eye on your dog. I burned myself because when I picked up a rat tube to give to the scribe, AJ found another rat I didn't see.
AJ earned his RATCH and RATCHX at my home club. I want to get a big ribbon at another club. I'm judging four trials next weekend at a five trial event. I want to get his Crazy 8s Platinum there. I was disappointed that AJ had a 20 point run when I was hoping for a 60 point run. He wasn't working good and had a very rare fault when he pawed a bedding that I called as a rat. I later pulled all the recent Q ribbons out of my bag and realized AJ ended the weekend with 1,970 points. If he had a good run that second run, we would have inadvertently got another big ribbon at my home club. I forgot about the event in mid March where I was hospitalized two days later.
We had a fun late Easter party and a birthday. Plastic Easter Eggs with dog treats were put on the ground and dogs could choose their eggs. AJ wasn't interested in the treats but had a smashing good time breaking the eggs open. He ran through the area pouncing on the eggs, they would open and spill the treats, but AJ ignored the treats and moved on to the next egg. Our teacher had a special cake for her birthday.
obbanner
Hot Topics Subscriber
I had a fun five days April 18 - 22 attending a judges workshop 18-19 and trials 20-22 at Lewisberry, PA. Judges have to attend workshops every three years. I'm not due until next year, but since the workshop was only 120 miles from me, I signed up for it, thinking that next year I might have to travel over half the width of the US to get to one. I was able to bring AJ to the workshop because I was a Judge of Record there Saturday and Sunday. We stayed in a nice apartment on the property. Workshop participants submit maps for a trial. One map for Open was selected and built on Wednesday and one for Senior on Thursday. The course is built, the participants critique it, then everyone gets a turn in the barrel judging on that course. There weren't enough working dogs for the Thursday judges workshop, so I was able to run AJ in the workshop. In a practice Senior event, AJ got one Q and I didn't take him back to the fourth rat that he showed interest in, but didn't indicate in his second run.
AJ earned his Crazy 8s Platinum title. There were five trials April 20-22. AJ went into the event needing 30 points and he earned 280. Who says he's an overachiever?
In one trial, he earned 60 points when he could have earned 70. There was a four bale element that AJ just blew up. He dove into them and when he emerged, the bales were in a heap. I knew there was a rat buried somewhere in there, but if I didn't point to the specific location, it would be a 20 point penalty, so I kept quiet.
Things I learned. I mark bedding tubes on my maps with a big red X so I can tell instantly if a dog is hitting on a bedding. After several blinds, it's easy to get confused about what is where. I judged a blind the Judge of Record couldn't because her husband was in the blind. She gave me her hide map and I misread a 2 for an L on a call. So I learned to get my red Sharpie out and mark a big X on all the bedding on a map that's not mine.
I got a good tip about remembering if a tunnel is done by a dog. Judges aren't allowed to self-scribe by writing down counts, climb and tunnel. Judges must keep their eyes on the dog at all times and can't take their eyes off to write something down. Sometimes judges forget if the tunnel was done or not. Usually I'm saved because the handler didn't forget and tells the dog to tunnel. The instructor said he keeps something in his hand when the run starts and puts it in his pocket when the tunnel is performed. I tried it and, when I remember to take it out of my pocket at the start of a run, it works for me. He also uses yarn counters to count rats found. I try to do a count in my head repeating the last rat found, but sometimes I forget to do that as well. I'll think to myself zed, zed, zed, RAT, one, one, one, one, RAT, two, two... I got some yarn counters on Amazon and will try them the next event I judge in May.
AJ earned his Crazy 8s Platinum title. There were five trials April 20-22. AJ went into the event needing 30 points and he earned 280. Who says he's an overachiever?
In one trial, he earned 60 points when he could have earned 70. There was a four bale element that AJ just blew up. He dove into them and when he emerged, the bales were in a heap. I knew there was a rat buried somewhere in there, but if I didn't point to the specific location, it would be a 20 point penalty, so I kept quiet.Things I learned. I mark bedding tubes on my maps with a big red X so I can tell instantly if a dog is hitting on a bedding. After several blinds, it's easy to get confused about what is where. I judged a blind the Judge of Record couldn't because her husband was in the blind. She gave me her hide map and I misread a 2 for an L on a call. So I learned to get my red Sharpie out and mark a big X on all the bedding on a map that's not mine.
I got a good tip about remembering if a tunnel is done by a dog. Judges aren't allowed to self-scribe by writing down counts, climb and tunnel. Judges must keep their eyes on the dog at all times and can't take their eyes off to write something down. Sometimes judges forget if the tunnel was done or not. Usually I'm saved because the handler didn't forget and tells the dog to tunnel. The instructor said he keeps something in his hand when the run starts and puts it in his pocket when the tunnel is performed. I tried it and, when I remember to take it out of my pocket at the start of a run, it works for me. He also uses yarn counters to count rats found. I try to do a count in my head repeating the last rat found, but sometimes I forget to do that as well. I'll think to myself zed, zed, zed, RAT, one, one, one, one, RAT, two, two... I got some yarn counters on Amazon and will try them the next event I judge in May.
obbanner
Hot Topics Subscriber
I take a weekly Barn Hunt class that's two handlers and half an hour long. There was a new dog in the class ahead of us and the teacher used two rats in a wire cage to introduce the dog to the rats. After that session was over, the teacher and her assistant were joking maybe AJ needs to be introduced to rats, so they put them on the floor in front of him. AJ went nuts, frantically pawing the cage and singing his song. The rats were put away and AJ went onto the course to find four rats. He went bananas and found all four rats in under a minute! I think from this experience that it doesn't hurt to let the dogs see the rats once in a while.
When I judged Master in the event above, I had a strange situation with the tunnel. The first dog of the trial entered the tunnel entrance on the right twice, stayed in a while, then backed out. After two tries, the handler took the dog to the other entrance and and the dog tunneled with no problem. The second dog in the blind had the same issue. When two dogs do something strange, it's time to investigate and I crawled into the tunnel to see what was wrong. There was a dead end in the build.
This is the tunnel as I designed it, which is legal and safe.
As Designed
This is the tunnel as I inspected the base layer. Note the red square which is a support pillar that I wasn't told about when I designed the course. The bale was tilted to account for the pillar, but the tunnel was still eighteen inches wide. I inspected the base layer, then left the ring to sit down for a few minutes and answer questions from handlers. I returned when the completed three level course was finished and the course appeared to be as I designed it.
As Inspected
When I crawled into the tunnel, this is what I found. The tilted bale was moved in such a way a blind alley was created, which is very illegal. The dog ran into the tunnel and when it encountered the wall, was confused, so backed out. After I left the ring, the course builders changed the bale so they could put the tunnel boards on top of the tunnel. (Note that the bales aren't aligned as they were in my design. That often happens because bale sizes vary and tweaks to the course have to be made during the build.)
As of Final Build
If your dog is acting strange in the ring, you can ask the judge to verify an element, a rat tube or anything you believe is causing an issue. If the cause is the fault of the build or the staff, you can ask for a rerun. Even if you still Q, if you think you can get better time, you can ask for a rerun.
In my first judges workshop, we were given a story of the havoc caused by blind alleys during the first years of Barn Hunt. An Earth Dog judge designed a 40 foot tunnel with blind alleys and multiple turns. Dogs that weren't earth dogs got stuck in the blind alleys and after that experience, refused to tunnel any more. The regulations for tunnels were changed to prohibit blind alleys.
When I judged Master in the event above, I had a strange situation with the tunnel. The first dog of the trial entered the tunnel entrance on the right twice, stayed in a while, then backed out. After two tries, the handler took the dog to the other entrance and and the dog tunneled with no problem. The second dog in the blind had the same issue. When two dogs do something strange, it's time to investigate and I crawled into the tunnel to see what was wrong. There was a dead end in the build.
This is the tunnel as I designed it, which is legal and safe.
As Designed
This is the tunnel as I inspected the base layer. Note the red square which is a support pillar that I wasn't told about when I designed the course. The bale was tilted to account for the pillar, but the tunnel was still eighteen inches wide. I inspected the base layer, then left the ring to sit down for a few minutes and answer questions from handlers. I returned when the completed three level course was finished and the course appeared to be as I designed it.
As Inspected
When I crawled into the tunnel, this is what I found. The tilted bale was moved in such a way a blind alley was created, which is very illegal. The dog ran into the tunnel and when it encountered the wall, was confused, so backed out. After I left the ring, the course builders changed the bale so they could put the tunnel boards on top of the tunnel. (Note that the bales aren't aligned as they were in my design. That often happens because bale sizes vary and tweaks to the course have to be made during the build.)
As of Final Build
If your dog is acting strange in the ring, you can ask the judge to verify an element, a rat tube or anything you believe is causing an issue. If the cause is the fault of the build or the staff, you can ask for a rerun. Even if you still Q, if you think you can get better time, you can ask for a rerun.
In my first judges workshop, we were given a story of the havoc caused by blind alleys during the first years of Barn Hunt. An Earth Dog judge designed a 40 foot tunnel with blind alleys and multiple turns. Dogs that weren't earth dogs got stuck in the blind alleys and after that experience, refused to tunnel any more. The regulations for tunnels were changed to prohibit blind alleys.
Last edited:
Oh for sure! When we were taking nosework classes that was something our instructor told us, even to this day, that he does. Always go back to giving high value and praise right on the scent. Easy, out in the open, not hidden. I'm sure the same applies to the scent of a rat and boy, seeing that the scent is alive and moving, even more exciting! Good boy AJ.
Did you have to re-run any dogs because of the tunnel error or did everyone in the first blind Q?
obbanner
Hot Topics Subscriber
I checked out the tunnel after the second dog. Both qualified and didn't want reruns. I fixed the bale by kicking it into the position it was in the As Inspected diagram, then continued the trial with no problems.
Wow I never realized that... that's kind of dumb that they wont!
obbanner
Hot Topics Subscriber
Distance Challenge
The course in class today turned into a good discussion on Distance Challenges. The intent was to train the dog to work on a distance challenge, but I had a light bulb moment that there's certain situations I can intentionally walk into the DC before calling RAT. After my second run, we had a good talk about how it's an option to intentionally walk in the distance challenge without calling RAT as long as you're convinced the rest of the course is clear.
Quick survey of the basic distance challenge rules - It's bounded by bales, can be up to 40% of the course and the entry is a mat. If you work your dog while you're still in the distance challenge from a RAT call, you're stuck in the distance challenge. If you wander into the distance challenge unintentionally, you're stuck in the distance challenge. (Don't laugh - I was at a trial recently when Colin Ratcliffe, the judge development chair, did that!) The only way to leave the distance challenge without NQ'ing is to call RAT. If you're stuck in the distance challenge, if you call RAT inside or outside the distance challenge, you can leave the distance challenge so long as you don't redirect your dog before you're completely out of the distance challenge (including both feet off the mat).
Working on this course today, I had a revelation. The elements outside the distance challenge were relatively simple and easily cleared. The distance challenge was a challenge in more ways than one. The 3 level element can be hard to get a dog to climb to the top. It's impossible to see what's behind the tunnel to the right.
On the first run, AJ climbed the 3 level element to check out fluff, and didn't indicate any rats behind the tunnel. I called CLEAR and it was. On the second run, I cleared all the elements, corners and walls outside the distance challenge, did the tunnel. I then walked with AJ inside the distance challenge knowing I was stuck there until I called CLEAR or RAT. We worked there and didn't find any more rats. I called CLEAR with three rats found and that was the count.
This isn't something I'll probably get a chance to do often, but it was good exposure and one more thing in my bag of tricks. If I come across a trial course similar to this, I'll already have seen and worked on it.
The course in class today turned into a good discussion on Distance Challenges. The intent was to train the dog to work on a distance challenge, but I had a light bulb moment that there's certain situations I can intentionally walk into the DC before calling RAT. After my second run, we had a good talk about how it's an option to intentionally walk in the distance challenge without calling RAT as long as you're convinced the rest of the course is clear.
Quick survey of the basic distance challenge rules - It's bounded by bales, can be up to 40% of the course and the entry is a mat. If you work your dog while you're still in the distance challenge from a RAT call, you're stuck in the distance challenge. If you wander into the distance challenge unintentionally, you're stuck in the distance challenge. (Don't laugh - I was at a trial recently when Colin Ratcliffe, the judge development chair, did that!) The only way to leave the distance challenge without NQ'ing is to call RAT. If you're stuck in the distance challenge, if you call RAT inside or outside the distance challenge, you can leave the distance challenge so long as you don't redirect your dog before you're completely out of the distance challenge (including both feet off the mat).
Working on this course today, I had a revelation. The elements outside the distance challenge were relatively simple and easily cleared. The distance challenge was a challenge in more ways than one. The 3 level element can be hard to get a dog to climb to the top. It's impossible to see what's behind the tunnel to the right.
On the first run, AJ climbed the 3 level element to check out fluff, and didn't indicate any rats behind the tunnel. I called CLEAR and it was. On the second run, I cleared all the elements, corners and walls outside the distance challenge, did the tunnel. I then walked with AJ inside the distance challenge knowing I was stuck there until I called CLEAR or RAT. We worked there and didn't find any more rats. I called CLEAR with three rats found and that was the count.
This isn't something I'll probably get a chance to do often, but it was good exposure and one more thing in my bag of tricks. If I come across a trial course similar to this, I'll already have seen and worked on it.
obbanner
Hot Topics Subscriber
I had a funny dog while judging last weekend. The dog is notorious for rolling on the hay bales during a run. She'll roll on the rat tube as well as roll while scratching her back in corners and on the bales. She went in the tunnel and was taking a long time in there. Then she came slowly swanning her way out of the tunnel on her back pushing herself along on the tunnel roof boards.
AJ is back in Master class after he earned his Crazy 8s Platinum. He now has three legs towards his RATCHX2. The Saturday trial ran very late and he got his second run after his bed time. He made clear all he wanted to do was go to bed and NQ'd. He NQ'd on his first run Sunday. He ran over a rat twice without showing any indication and NQ'd after finding 2 of the 3 rats on the course. He Q'd on his second run with four rats and worked nicely.
AJ is back in Master class after he earned his Crazy 8s Platinum. He now has three legs towards his RATCHX2. The Saturday trial ran very late and he got his second run after his bed time. He made clear all he wanted to do was go to bed and NQ'd. He NQ'd on his first run Sunday. He ran over a rat twice without showing any indication and NQ'd after finding 2 of the 3 rats on the course. He Q'd on his second run with four rats and worked nicely.
LOL, I'll bet you get to see all kinds of stuff over the durations of so many trials...
I guess it's down to "win some & lose some". Sometimes we can tell when it's just not their day, and sometimes they surprise us. Glad he gave you a good run & Q in the end!
obbanner
Hot Topics Subscriber
I started by judging in 4H fairs. Trains, llamas, dogs... I really enjoyed all I saw while judging. I recommend judging to everyone.
Yes, I have some funny memories! I enjoy sharing them because it helps me to remember them. My favorite is the somewhere told previously Frankendog!
I was moving firewood today and Asha alerted on a stack and started hunting it, round and round, snorting and jumping in the wood. I just left her with it, I always do and she will sometimes work it for 30 - 45 minutes, but she never gets anything. Today she did - I saw her in hot pursuit of the rat which I guess she'd flushed out of the wood pile - she pounced with her feet then bit it and spit it out, then bit it again. No shaking it though, but it was dead. I told her "leave it" and she dropped it, but when I came toward her she picked it up again. I told her out and she let me have it. I had gloves on thank goodness and took it from her. I told her she was a good girl and let her follow me to the fence (she was wanting it back but being really good). When I tossed it over the fence I again praised her and pulled my glove off to get a huge handful of treats out of my pocket praising all the while. This is the first rat she's ever actually caught, I never really thought she could. She was really most excellent of letting me take the thing, so I thought I'd better reward as best I could for taking her prize away.
Tagging @obbanner - or anyone else who has done an intro to BH. LOL, Last month I signed up for an intro to Barn Hunt for June 17th. You know me, gotta try everything. I will listen first & foremost to the instructor when I go, but would like to know if you have any words of wisdom for a first timer. Of course since it's an intro, every dog there will be a newbie, but some of the people may be experienced. My biggest concern is that Asha will want to grab the tube. With all the rodents here, Asha has no problem pointing out where it is, but if she can see/touch the tube she will definitely paw or bite it.
Tagging @obbanner - or anyone else who has done an intro to BH. LOL, Last month I signed up for an intro to Barn Hunt for June 17th. You know me, gotta try everything. I will listen first & foremost to the instructor when I go, but would like to know if you have any words of wisdom for a first timer. Of course since it's an intro, every dog there will be a newbie, but some of the people may be experienced. My biggest concern is that Asha will want to grab the tube. With all the rodents here, Asha has no problem pointing out where it is, but if she can see/touch the tube she will definitely paw or bite it.
They are allowed to!! What they can't do is they can't overly work the tube. So pawing or biting for a few seconds while you praise her won't hurt and is allowed. Then you pick the tube up with both hands, make sure to keep it level and out of dog reach, and hand it off. Or that may be it for your session so you have her pull off and play with her nearby for a job well done. Have a lot of fun!! Nose work you have to train more but I find Barn Hunt is way more relaxed and so enjoyable for all as you watch your dog's natural ability come out.
Good to know! Thank you! I'd skimmed through the rules a few weeks ago thinking about trying an intro and I guess it stuck in my head about harassing the rat tube. I think I can get her off of it within a few seconds if I can teach that a big high value reward is coming up. Maybe.
obbanner
Hot Topics Subscriber
A landscaper friend once told me the definition of a weed is any plant growing where it shouldn't be. The most beautiful rose bush is a weed if it's in the wrong place. Rats are like that. If they're in the woodpile or in the walls of your house, they're weeds. But if they're pets with names, they're loved and fussed over. When loading the tubes last weekend, the owner of the rats pointed out her favorite rat. The world can be a strange place.
Many dogs gnaw at the tube when they find it. The PVC is pretty tough and I never saw a dog damage a tube. If the dog worries the tube or runs around with the tube with the handler not attempting to rescue the tube, that's an NQ because it's a danger to the rat. The NQ is called depending on the actions of the handler, not the dog. When AJ finds a tube, he often knocks it off the bales. Once he even hiked it between his rear legs like a football from the second level and it hit the floor. We don't NQ because I get the tube as quickly as I can move to keep AJ from playing with it. Keep in mind it's your actions which determine if it's an NQ or not.
The Instinct and Novice courses are preceded by a judge's briefing. I emphasize rat safety during my briefings because there's a living creature in the tube and we also want to avoid problems with the AR crowd. I explain the rules that the handler is responsible for a living creature. They will NQ if they tip the tube more than 45 degrees. They will NQ if the tube is dropped when handing the tube to the rat wrangler.
A natural ratter is a nice problem to have. I know such dogs that have problems in Master if they only have one rat on the course. They get frustrated and start hitting on the bedding tubes because they want to work, but there's no rats left for them. That's a problem that can be worked on with training.
The clinic will probably have an "introduction to the rat" segment where the rat is in a wire cage and the dog is introduced to it. I found that even an experienced dog like AJ benefits from this being done periodically. He hits on the wire cage because he can see the rat, then he carries that into the ring when he smells or hears the rat.
Enjoy the clinic and let us know how it goes!
Similar threads
