Barn Hunt Chat

[obbanner]

I thought I'd start a thread for talking about Barn Hunt. Questions, observations, war stories, whatnot.

I'm not showing in Barn Hunt this weekend because AJ is in an Obedience trial Sunday. Help was needed first thing in the morning because there weren't many experienced handlers, so I volunteered and was asked to scribe for two trials each for Instinct, Novice, Open and Crazy 8s. (I welcomed that because it gave me an opportunity to shadow judge.)

The thing that makes me want to scream out to the handler is when the handler doesn't pay attention to the dog.

1) A handler was doing the hunting for the rats herself. There were three bales with a rat on top close in front of me. She and her dog walked by the bales and her dog caught a scent. He was actively sniffing the sides of the bales, walked around sniffing the floor and when he didn't give an immediate indication, she walked on to the large element that had the tunnel with her back to her dog and was giving the element an intense visual inspection obviously hunting for rats herself. In the meantime, her pup found the rat and was jumping up and down on it and she was totally oblivious to it. She kept walking, so her dog ran over to join her. She NQ'd because she never went back to that element with the rat.

2) The Chinese Flu rules are that the handler takes off the lead and collar, then drops it or hangs it themselves. A handler dropped the lead, gave the her dog her start working command, then ignored her dog while as she starts the clock by walking off the mat. She slowly walks across the ring obviously hunting for the rats herself. But her dog was still on the start mat sniffing the lead until she reached the far corner of the ring. The handler lost at least five seconds of 150 second run because she wasn't paying attention.

3) This was bad judgement on the handler's part. She didn't recognize when her dog was working. She went to the tunnel entrance and the dog was very close to the rat working hard. She called her dog off the rat and tried to get it to go through the tunnel. I see handlers call their dogs off of rats to do something else too often.

A couple of things I want to emphasize - Watch your dog at all times and let your dog find the rats.

 

[LifeofRubie]

Excellent advice! Rubie can be fast when she wants to be so I fuss with the leash and THEN release to hunt. Even then I'm not moving around much, just watching her do her thang.

So, Moo went to a private class a couple weeks back and I've been told I can bring him to Rubies weekly class (he'll take one of her turns in that case, and no extra cost to me). He eagerly tunnels and climbs but when it comes to the hunt part, he doesn't have the same prey drive as Rubie.

I've been trying to do some word association by playing "find" at home with toys. I put him in a sit, stay, walk out of sight to hide the toy, return to his side, and release with FIND!

He tears off and hunts with his nose and eyes and is usually pretty quick. Not at methodical as Rubie, for sure.

Is this the right way to go about getting the idea down sans rats? Like FIND means leave me and work?

I also think he may need to be rewarded some way other than with food. Otherwise he stares at me and goes through his truck repertoire waiting for the "right" thing that results in reward. He will not work away from me if I have food.

 

[Rits]

He will not work away from me if I have food.

I don't know about barn hunt but my obedience instructor has one of those dogs that don't like to leave her side which makes it difficult for agility where they do the obstacle then run back for a reward. She started then tossing her treats onto the floor in front of them and away from her so her dogs don't always expect the treats to come from her.

Will he accept praise markers then reward him outside the ring when the hunt is over?

 

[LifeofRubie]

I don't know about barn hunt but my obedience instructor has one of those dogs that don't like to leave her side which makes it difficult for agility where they do the obstacle then run back for a reward. She started then tossing her treats onto the floor in front of them and away from her so her dogs don't always expect the treats to come from her.

Will he accept praise markers then reward him outside the ring when the hunt is over?

So the reason Moo is BRILLIANT at weaves is because he is SO food motivated. Whenever he got them right, there was food/reward waiting for him (not from my hand) so short answer; yes he will work away from me sometimes.

I also think he will work for praise immediately and then enjoy food rewards after, absolutely. With barn hunt, he's staring at me looking for direction to get the food reward because in agility, he was constantly relying me to tell him what to do. It's a very different type of environment and training that I'm still learning, for sure! But he is a very good boi

 

[obbanner]

So, Moo went to a private class a couple weeks back and I've been told I can bring him to Rubies weekly class (he'll take one of her turns in that case, and no extra cost to me). He eagerly tunnels and climbs but when it comes to the hunt part, he doesn't have the same prey drive as Rubie.

I've been trying to do some word association by playing "find" at home with toys. I put him in a sit, stay, walk out of sight to hide the toy, return to his side, and release with FIND!

He tears off and hunts with his nose and eyes and is usually pretty quick. Not at methodical as Rubie, for sure.

Is this the right way to go about getting the idea down sans rats? Like FIND means leave me and work?

I also think he may need to be rewarded some way other than with food. Otherwise he stares at me and goes through his truck repertoire waiting for the "right" thing that results in reward. He will not work away from me if I have food.

"He eagerly tunnels and climbs but when it comes to the hunt part, he doesn't have the same prey drive as Rubie." I had to smile at this. There's a semi-retired twelve year old lab that occasionally runs in Senior for RATSX legs. Her name is Madison, she's got a grey face but she loves climbing and tunnels. She only finds rats anymore when she trips over the tube, but we all love her!

I was thinking about your FIND problem. The nosework people use food, so that's not a help. I was thinking if you tried the Obedience Utility class scent articles. It would be a lot of work, but it may pay off. If you're not familiar with it, the object of the exercise is for your dog to find and retrieve the one article that has your scent from among the many on the ground. That naturally fits in with the retrieve instinct of the lab which is it's own reward for him. It also teaches him to work with his nose to find a particular scent. I sometimes bring out retired Anna's article bag and she enjoys running out to the pile, finding the article I touched and running back with it.

Does that sound doable or do you want more thoughts?

Another approach is if he has a favorite toy, you could hide it and make him look for it, then play a game when he finds it.

 

[LifeofRubie]

"He eagerly tunnels and climbs but when it comes to the hunt part, he doesn't have the same prey drive as Rubie." I had to smile at this. There's a semi-retired twelve year old lab that occasionally runs in Senior for RATSX legs. Her name is Madison, she's got a grey face but she loves climbing and tunnels. She only finds rats anymore when she trips over the tube, but we all love her!

I was thinking about your FIND problem. The nosework people use food, so that's not a help. I was thinking if you tried the Obedience Utility class scent articles. It would be a lot of work, but it may pay off. If you're not familiar with it, the object of the exercise is for your dog to find and retrieve the one article that has your scent from among the many on the ground. That naturally fits in with the retrieve instinct of the lab which is it's own reward for him. It also teaches him to work with his nose to find a particular scent. I sometimes bring out retired Anna's article bag and she enjoys running out to the pile, finding the article I touched and running back with it.

Does that sound doable or do you want more thoughts?

Another approach is if he has a favorite toy, you could hide it and make him look for it, then play a game when he finds it.

Awwwww Madison gets an A for effort!

We've had to make some budget cuts so having two dogs in classes isn't really an option right now so I'm hoping for no-cost options!

I have been putting him in a sit, stay, hiding a toy somewhere, returning to him, and releasing him with FIND. He seems to understand that that means GO FIND THE TOY! When he finds it, we play tug for a bit and then I reset him and hide again in a different spot. After a couple of turn, I put him in his crate and give him food rewards and then do a few rounds with Rubie. Repeat!

 

[obbanner]

Awwwww Madison gets an A for effort!

We've had to make some budget cuts so having two dogs in classes isn't really an option right now so I'm hoping for no-cost options!

I have been putting him in a sit, stay, hiding a toy somewhere, returning to him, and releasing him with FIND. He seems to understand that that means GO FIND THE TOY! When he finds it, we play tug for a bit and then I reset him and hide again in a different spot. After a couple of turn, I put him in his crate and give him food rewards and then do a few rounds with Rubie. Repeat!

That sounds very good!

You reminded me of another dog. In Crazy 8s, the handler wants to be as efficient as possible, so they pick up the tube themselves to hand to the wrangler and send the dog off to continue hunting. The handler doesn't want to say the word rat until calling a tube. One handler has the technique that as soon as she starts reaching for the tube after calling RAT, she tells her dog GO FISH!

 

[obbanner]

This weekend were two Fun Test days for two prospective judges. Prospective judges need a certain number of points spread among all the classes. I told the trial secretary to enter me where points are needed, so on Saturday I had two Open runs and one Master run, and Sunday had one Open run, one Senior run and two Master runs.

I planned to take AJ both days with the hope in the back of my mind I could do Anna on Saturday. Saturday morning, Anna was running around the back yard with AJ and it looked like she was having a good day, so I took her.

She got fourth place in her first Open run, which was the first time for her to see rats in over a year. Her second Open run she failed to find the second rat because she didn't want to climb over the hay bales. In Masters, she got half her body in the tunnel and backed out again in both entrances, and when I asked her to CLIMB, she stood looking at me with her tail wagging. I retired at that point. It was really a heart breaker to see the crazy redhead who used to bounce around the course like a ping pong ball not wanting to climb.

Anna with what is probably her last placement ribbon of a long, wonderful career.



AJ turned three Sunday and earned First place in Open to celebrate. He has some issues I wanted to work on, so we ran "No Competition" in Senior and Master. I can tell when he's on a scent but he has a weak indication. Running NC means the judge points out where the rats are hidden before we start. Then when AJ works in an area that has a rat and leaves it, I know there's a rat there and I can call him back and make him find it. Since it's a trial environment, it's a good chance to work on problems. That's an option available only in Fun Tests.

 

[LifeofRubie]

Retirement runs always seem to be so bittersweet but I'm glad she got out there and did her thing, even if just once

Good Job, AJ!

 

[LifeofRubie]

Barn Related but I apologize if this is a bit for this thread; we did Rat Games this weekend!

This was the first "game:"


there were 4 tunnels total on the course. One with no turns, one with 1, one with 2, and one with 3 turns. You can take each tunnel in either direction for points (so a total of 8 tunnels for 22 points). I was certain Rubie got all the tunnel points but she must've been in the 3 pointer when time was called as we got just 19 points. She did find a rat, too! It's not worth any points but I was more than happy to let her hunt to keep her drive going. I wrangled for a couple of blinds and I saw person after person call their dogs off rats because they were so focused on getting the tunnel points. For the record, Tiramisu is a decrepit looking Basset Hound but she just went through and glady did her tunnels and apparently isn't that into rats...



The next game was closer to Barn Hunt Crazy 8's:



I think it was a little bit of sensory overload for Rubie! Again, I'm certain she found 4 rats but only 3 showed up on our results. She didn't call any false tubes which I was really pleased with. ICE is a Dutch Shepherd who I was certain was 3-4 years old by his intensity and speed. He's actually 9.5 years old!! Tiramisu peed on the course



The other interesting thing about this venue was that there are no ribbons given out, apparently? I believe they wait until the host club finishes their "Spring League" and then they compare the results against all other dogs running the same games in the Spring League. Seems I need to go back and read the rules a little closer!

If nothing else, it was ring time in a month when there were no trials we could attend. We can't go to the rest of the games for the Spring League but it was an interesting thing to try!

 

[Rits]

I'm a part of a group getting a barn hunt club going for our area! Hopefully. There are two barn hunt clubs on either side of us but they are a distance away and don't offer consistent barn hunt training. Our area wants the practice more than anything and there's a lot of interest. Someone tried to call and ask before this thing got rolling and was told it was too close to the other club, what? They only hold two trials a year, why couldn't we as long as we didn't hold trials the same weekend or even month? Someone is going to call again and try to get more information.

We have a vet that's in the founding group, she's going to be in charge of the rats and loaning them out to the club. That way she can take care of their medical needs as long as they are hers. Which is great because she has her own pet rats (won't be using) so she knows their behavior and health needs. I'm in charge of the social media side so we have a facebook group for just us founding members while we work out details, then we eventually plan to open it to the public. There's a couple that knows barn hunt like the back of their hand. The owner of the K9 training facility that rents out it's space to local trainers, K9 units etc will be building a place for us to host practice and keep the rats. Shes a trainer and knows nose work, she breeds and raises bomb and drug detection dogs. Really high drive labs. Her manager will be going to get the rat cage this week and the rats will be soon to follow! Im also in charge of cleaning cages once a week, I'll get free practice in exchange! Same with the others that take a day and others that donate money to help pay for things.

We plan to start with just our founding members working out the details then eventually host an intro to rats and "instinct" fun run to raise some funds to go back into the club. Whether we become an official club or not, it's a great thing when there's enough people to come together to have fun with their dogs! I didn't expect to do barn hunt so soon but can't wait to have some fun with Ripley, I know she's gonna love it.

 

[obbanner]

I'm a part of a group getting a barn hunt club going for our area! Hopefully. There are two barn hunt clubs on either side of us but they are a distance away and don't offer consistent barn hunt training. Our area wants the practice more than anything and there's a lot of interest. Someone tried to call and ask before this thing got rolling and was told it was too close to the other club, what? They only hold two trials a year, why couldn't we as long as we didn't hold trials the same weekend or even month? Someone is going to call again and try to get more information.

Great! Best of luck! It sounds as if you have a firm foundation to begin.

I've had experience with dog clubs protective of their territories. A Barn Hunt club 72 miles driving distance (much shorter as the crow flies) gave my club a very hard time when it was started. We're the most densely populated state in the US and there's plenty of room for both clubs, but they constantly snipe at us with the BHA to this day. Stick to your position and don't accept no as an answer.

A club wanted to hold an obedience trial on the same day as my Doberman club and were within the 100 miles. They were far enough away that they wouldn't take many entries from us and we always have a wait list, so our club allowed them to hold their trial. The next year, they filed for the same day with the AKC before we did and the AKC approved it. When I filed the paperwork for our trial, the AKC said there was already a trial and disapproved it. When we contacted the club, they responded that they wouldn't approve our trial! So we went back to the AKC and had their show revoked because that's our date that we had for many years.

 

[LifeofRubie]

Ugh, the dog world people can be so petty and downright rude. I really hope you guys can get a club together! If more people in the area train, wouldn't that by default result in more entries to other trials? I won't drive more than half an hour to a class but I'll go up to an hour and a half away to a trial (we're definitely spoiled here)

 

[obbanner]

Pictures were taken of us at Barn Hunt today. He did a practice Masters run. There were four rats on the course of a possible maximum of five, but we didn't know how many.

There's a good shot of the way he turns around when he realized he went past a rat. When he stops dead in his tracks and turns around, that's a very good tell he found a rat!

 

[Rits]

Well, we got denied for our club. Too many clubs nearby... There are only two clubs in all of Indiana. TWO. There is one on the eastern side of us and one on the western side. We are in a pretty popular area for travel from MI, IL, OH and have a decent sized population here. The two clubs only hold two trials a year. Many want to do more than that but don't want to travel more than 90min - 2hrs. I know both locations tend to fill up fast so I'm just surprised there's not enough room for us all to play nice and support one another. Wondering if we will forever be cursed and never able to become a club or if they ever look into it more.

Anyways, the business k9 facility that rents out their buildings, grounds and pool for training is going to absorb all the costs and still continue to host seminars, training, and practice because the area wants it bad. We were already having Cherie Bluhm come do a seminar for a weekend in June before we found out that our application was rejected. She has the highest titled dog in barn hunt with her Toller Echo who is a RATCHX72. I picked up an audit spot as I want to be able to focus on watching and learning vs worrying about Ripley. It'll be an all day thing from 8am to Noon for beginners then 130-530 for experienced folks. The working spots filled up already, too. So yeah, lots of folks excited. Cant wait!

We also have rats! And we will be able to practice in exchange for cleaning. 6 five month olds, already trained for tubes and handled. Male and female. We have some babies being raised up too, another 6-7.

Tough life for the 5 month olds


Babies


Tubes ready

I also signed Ripley up for a trial at the nearest club! Our little group that was trying to form a club up for our area is going together to learn. We are going to do Instinct the first day, then two novice trials each day. That'll be next weekend. Excited and nervous. This will be my first official trial of any sort since I was in 4H!

 

[obbanner]

Well, we got denied for our club. Too many clubs nearby... There are only two clubs in all of Indiana.

Are you on decent terms with either of the two clubs? If they don't put on many trials, you could ask if they'd put on trials at your location and your club would provide major help. That could be a win-win as your club gets experience putting on trials and could build the groundwork for being a sanctioned club. Is distance the reason stated for the rejection?

Your rats are cute little buggers! I wish my wife would let me keep some. She's tolerant of the critters I bring home, but NO rats!

Congratulations on going back in the ring! Best wishes for a fun time. May your rats be noisy and smelly!

 

[LifeofRubie]

@Rits that's such a bummer they wouldn't let you start a club... UGH! but sounds like you have some fun stuff coming up!

 

[Rits]

Is distance the reason stated for the rejection?

The reason was there are too many clubs in our area. Which I understand they want to protect the clubs entries but we feel like there's enough to go around but ah well. The club west is about two hours, club east that we are going to support is closer at 45 min. Nothing North or south. We are 5 min from MI so we have people that come down from MI to train.

That's a good idea, I didn't think about them being able to change locations for events. We will see where this takes us ! At least out of all of this we now have a way to practice for our area and get more people into barn hunt.

 

[obbanner]

The reason was there are too many clubs in our area. Which I understand they want to protect the clubs entries but we feel like there's enough to go around but ah well. The club west is about two hours, club east that we are going to support is closer at 45 min. Nothing North or south. We are 5 min from MI so we have people that come down from MI to train.

That's a good idea, I didn't think about them being able to change locations for events. We will see where this takes us ! At least out of all of this we now have a way to practice for our area and get more people into barn hunt.

Our club is running a trial for a border terriers club at a county fairgrounds. Clubs can run trials off site. Below is a link to the premium list.

https://www.stonehedgekennel.biz/images/uploads/events/June_7th_2021_premiuim.pdf

I hope you can run trials. A handful of trials a year just doesn't cut it. We have monthly trial weekends of 4 to 6 trials, and after the weekend is over, we look forward to the next one.

(And as a senior citizen who hates to drive, I don't see myself driving two hours for anything!)

 

[Rits]

I hope you can run trials. A handful of trials a year just doesn't cut it. We have monthly trial weekends of 4 to 6 trials, and after the weekend is over, we look forward to the next one.

Exactly and what some of the more seasoned people were saying! Thank you for the idea! I will bring the idea up to our club and see about it!