A Doberman/Pit bull Mix

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You have to understand as someone who wants to preserve the breeds that breeders take great pride in creating healthier puppies. The mixes are healthier argument is not always true. With mixes you have no standard therefor you have no knowledge of health, temperament, weight, height and so on. What most are against is purposely breeding mixes, and selling them as a "breed" I have two mutts and that's what they are mutts. My Doberman on the other hand is not.

Most vets would disagree with you. As would most owners of 'muts'. All of my 'muts' have outlived my medically cleared dobies. Sure, nothing is guaranteed. Cancer for instance will strike all and often unexpectedly. It's in the treats, in the foods, in the medicines. Depending on where you live it may even be in the water you give them. But 'muts' tend to live longer overall.

Standards....well we know that the Doberman lives for 10-12 years. Is this a standard? You'd think we'd have figured out a way to increase the standard. Oh no, wait....we'd have to diversify the gene pool by departing from the 'visual standard' and mix in something else.

As for your Doberman, and mine, and everyone's, they are 'muts'. They have Pinscher, German Shepherd, Great Dane (some say), even Borzoi (perhaps) in them. Once someone thought they liked what they had produced, they just limited their gene pool and bred it in. Inbreeding, as careful as it may be, it results ALWAYS in shorter lifespan. Which is what our dogs suffer from. They're middle aged at 5, many are dead by 9 and only the really lucky ones make it to 10 or 12. Compare that to 18 that some Australian and Greek Shepherds (natural breed) reach or even 20!
 
Dogs in the their natural form don't breed to suit the 'needs' of humans. They breed naturally. The planned, breeding of dogs has produced short lived breeds. Natural breeds like the Greek Shepherd and others live in excess of 15 years. Case in point, my own Greek shepherd, died at 18. Australian Kelpies, the same. Doberman's normally live up to 12 even after careful planned breeding. So I'm not really certain how 'purebreds' are somehow 'better'. It's a human silly convention. What makes a poor sire in nature is simply poor health. Conformation standards are an issue of human aesthetics. If you have a medically cleared dog of Breed A there shouldn't be an issue breeding it with a medically cleared female of Breed B. The rest is human ego....
Dogs are inherently unnatural. Any dog bred by humans. An akita is very close to a wolf but yet lives only 12 years. A cocker spaniel is no where near any wild canine and yet frequently live to 16+ years. Should longevity be purposefully bred into all breeds? Likely yes, but its not. The dog is bred for a purpose. All dogs breeds have been bred for a purpose. Whether it be lap dog, herder, protection, hunting in various forms (sight, point, retreive, etc...) They are better more often for a specific job than an unplanned dog.

A poor sire in nature can also be a malformed animal. It's rather hard to be in better health when your legs are crooked. I do not believe sickness is the only criteria. Evolution doesnt work that way.
 
He there. I may be wrong, but you sound a bit combative. No one on here would disagree that every dog, no matter his/her lineage is worthy of love and proper care, and they are pretty much all beautiful. Neither is anyone contesting the way about which the Doberman came to be. There is no argument there, but I think everyone on here wants responsible breeding to make sure our Doberman is healthy (improved by testing and "weeding out" some manageable things) and with us for a very long time without becoming an unrecognizable dog (maybe that part is ego, but I sure like the way my boy looks!) I would imagine GSD owners like the appearance of their dogs as well. As far as mutts go, shelters are full of them (well until they are PTS) so I don't really think it's necessary to create them purposely.

Anyway, are we ever going to see your full blood Naomi? We are pretty demanding about pictures here...we love them!
 
Most vets would disagree with you. As would most owners of 'muts'. All of my 'muts' have outlived my medically cleared dobies. Sure, nothing is guaranteed. Cancer for instance will strike all and often unexpectedly. It's in the treats, in the foods, in the medicines. Depending on where you live it may even be in the water you give them. But 'muts' tend to live longer overall.

Standards....well we know that the Doberman lives for 10-12 years. Is this a standard? You'd think we'd have figured out a way to increase the standard. Oh no, wait....we'd have to diversify the gene pool by departing from the 'visual standard' and mix in something else.

As for your Doberman, and mine, and everyone's, they are 'muts'. They have Pinscher, German Shepherd, Great Dane (some say), even Borzoi (perhaps) in them. Once someone thought they liked what they had produced, they just limited their gene pool and bred it in. Inbreeding, as careful as it may be, it results ALWAYS in shorter lifespan. Which is what our dogs suffer from. They're middle aged at 5, many are dead by 9 and only the really lucky ones make it to 10 or 12. Compare that to 18 that some Australian and Greek Shepherds (natural breed) reach or even 20!
Most vets would also disagree with the diet I feed my dogs as well as my thoughts on spaying and neutering.
What I'm saying is reputable breeders of be Doberman are very careful to produce healthy pups and do everything they can to preserve the breed, it's health and it's quality.
Purposely breeding mutts and selling them for a profit is wrong. Or making them into its own classification is also wrong, I don't go around saying my chi mix is a min chi.
Yes the Doberman came from a variety of others breeds but now it's a purebred dog. I think those of us that own purebred dogs get more crap for it because we shopped and didn't adopt. Well most of us who care about the breed did a lot research and got a reputable breeder.
Reputable breeders produce healthy dogs, but any dog from anywhere is not immune to certain things like cancer, and so on.
I can you this I will not ever "rescue" another dog again. My shep mix is the last one.
 
Dogs are inherently unnatural. Any dog bred by humans. An akita is very close to a wolf but yet lives only 12 years. A cocker spaniel is no where near any wild canine and yet frequently live to 16+ years. Should longevity be purposefully bred into all breeds? Likely yes, but its not. The dog is bred for a purpose. All dogs breeds have been bred for a purpose. Whether it be lap dog, herder, protection, hunting in various forms (sight, point, retreive, etc...) They are better more often for a specific job than an unplanned dog.

A poor sire in nature can also be a malformed animal. It's rather hard to be in better health when your legs are crooked. I do not believe sickness is the only criteria. Evolution doesnt work that way.
Ain't that the truth, Boo my shep mix is to long for herself, she actually can't sit properly because of it, I have a bad feeling she will wind up back problems.
 
Dogs are inherently unnatural. Any dog bred by humans. An akita is very close to a wolf but yet lives only 12 years. A cocker spaniel is no where near any wild canine and yet frequently live to 16+ years. Should longevity be purposefully bred into all breeds? Likely yes, but its not. The dog is bred for a purpose. All dogs breeds have been bred for a purpose. Whether it be lap dog, herder, protection, hunting in various forms (sight, point, retreive, etc...) They are better more often for a specific job than an unplanned dog.

A poor sire in nature can also be a malformed animal. It's rather hard to be in better health when your legs are crooked. I do not believe sickness is the only criteria. Evolution doesnt work that way.

I LOVE to see the science behind 'all dogs are unnatural'. Dogs naturally developed from wolves through a natural evolutionary process. They willingly followed humans as we were an easy source of food. We then bred different breeds depending on OUR needs thus forming the various breeds, interfering with Nature's process of weeding out the weaker dogs, interfering with the pack structure that often determined who breeds and who doesn't (Alpha Male, Alpha Female =the stronger, physically fitter individuals).

An Akita being CLOSE to a wolf, at least in looks doesn't mean anything but thanks for bringing that up. Japanese Akitas in pre-WW2 Japan were a lot more long lived. The Akitas of today, especially the American variety are bred again from a very limited genetic stock. They were almost extinct in Japan as they were used for their fur which lined the inside of soldiers coats. Which further proves my point that smaller genetic pools, lead to shorter lifespans and genetically weaker offspring.

As for the Cocker Spaniel, it's an old working breed. OLD meaning that it developed at a time when dogs were kept outside, often allowed to roam free and choose their own mates. The breed went through a natural stage of development. Those breeds tend to be the healthiest. More recent breeds coming out of purposeful design are less heathy.

Now unto the 'malformed' animal part. A malformed pack animal in nature is less likely to breed. Its malformed descendants, unless they take advantage of a niche environment that suits their deformity will also be less likely to survive. Crooked legs breeds are created by humans, so are all brachycephalic breeds. In fact, anything not resembling a dingo, a Congolese Basenji (not the American AKC type) and generally a pariah type dog has been bred by humans who often mess up the dog's genetics.

And yes, evolution does not work with health as the ONLY criteria, the environment, availability of resources, adaptation to those conditions, availability of individuals for reproduction also play a role. But the viability of one's offspring is a major driving force. I don't suppose the original Shar Pei (Bone Mouth Shar Pei) would have faired very far in its current American wrinkly form plagued by entropion, fever and a host of other breed specific, debilitating conditions. Those individuals expressing those extreme traits would have vanished unless their environment favored them. As is the case here where they have been bred to look a certain way with food secured by their owners. They no longer have to hunt, eye sight is not a life or death factor, so those folds covering their eyes are not a life or death factor.

So to get back to my original point: 'Muts' is a word used in arrogance. Breeds, are all endogamous 'muts'. There is no issue, in my opinion, crossing different breeds (healthy individuals only). This is how our breeds came about. Most of them as it turns out, suffering from very specific ailments. I'd like to see less self-righteous rage. Less looking down on others. We can love our breed without hating others.
 
He there. I may be wrong, but you sound a bit combative. No one on here would disagree that every dog, no matter his/her lineage is worthy of love and proper care, and they are pretty much all beautiful. Neither is anyone contesting the way about which the Doberman came to be. There is no argument there, but I think everyone on here wants responsible breeding to make sure our Doberman is healthy (improved by testing and "weeding out" some manageable things) and with us for a very long time without becoming an unrecognizable dog (maybe that part is ego, but I sure like the way my boy looks!) I would imagine GSD owners like the appearance of their dogs as well. As far as mutts go, shelters are full of them (well until they are PTS) so I don't really think it's necessary to create them purposely.

Anyway, are we ever going to see your full blood Naomi? We are pretty demanding about pictures here...we love them!


You are mistaken. I am not combative at all. I am calling out what I see as arrogant hypocrisy sometimes expressed by the purebreds-only fans. A little realism in how we view our dogs wouldn't hurt. I love dobermans as much as everyone else in here does. I just don't get enraged when people choose to mix them or any other dog or create another breed. Dobermans are also a created breed. There may well have been someone in old Germany like you, thinking 'there is no need to mix the German Shepherd with the German Pinscher and the Dane, and the Borzoi, and the Rotweiller....what is this mutt??'


And you are looking at Naomi....my profile picture is of her at 8 weeks.
 
Most vets would also disagree with the diet I feed my dogs as well as my thoughts on spaying and neutering.
What I'm saying is reputable breeders of be Doberman are very careful to produce healthy pups and do everything they can to preserve the breed, it's health and it's quality.
Purposely breeding mutts and selling them for a profit is wrong. Or making them into its own classification is also wrong, I don't go around saying my chi mix is a min chi.
Yes the Doberman came from a variety of others breeds but now it's a purebred dog. I think those of us that own purebred dogs get more crap for it because we shopped and didn't adopt. Well most of us who care about the breed did a lot research and got a reputable breeder.
Reputable breeders produce healthy dogs, but any dog from anywhere is not immune to certain things like cancer, and so on.
I can you this I will not ever "rescue" another dog again. My shep mix is the last one.


Well if most vets would disagree with what you're feeding your dogs, then you keep feeding them what you want at your own and your dogs peril. I personally cooperate with my doctor for my kids as I cooperate with the vet for my dogs. Reputable breeders of the Doberman, also cooperate with their vets to produce healthy pups. Healthy, within the capabilities of the breed of course.

Breeding any dog just for profit is wrong. It knackers the female and it produces weaker pups as the dog grows older. Once or twice is enough if you want to avoid cancers and still births.

And no, reputable breeders do not always produce healthy dogs. Some of their pups despite their best efforts test positive for hereditary disease and they come spayed or neutered. There are reputable breeders of Shar Peis and Great Danes but they still succumb to their breed's poor genetics due to their limited gene pool and they die at 5-8 years.

I am afraid I cannot see your point...
 
An Akita being CLOSE to a wolf, at least in looks doesn't mean anything but thanks for bringing that up. Japanese Akitas in pre-WW2 Japan were a lot more long lived. The Akitas of today, especially the American variety are bred again from a very limited genetic stock. They
Define long lived?
My sis in law had a female that went 14 years.She had one of the pups of the only litter produced go 12 or 13? years, and my father in law got another of the pups that went 11 years.
Interesting and completely off topic the father in laws dog lived the least amount of time but was exercised the most and had pampering in diet;wider variety of foods.
She was also the smallest. Mamma was way beyond breed standard. Very large! Like a buck thirty or more tall and long.
Jon Snow's Dire wolf would cower! :D

They were by the way absolutely great dogs, the momma dog had a bad habit of bolting at doors to roam but other than that great dogs. You need to realize that a family of ten children produce a ton of children when they grow up. All those children from ages infant and up were in contact with those dogs on the regular.
Lord help the poor soul that raised a hand to any of them or attempted any monkey business.
 
Lol I don't know why mutt is a bad word lol I love my mutts but I don't make them out to be something their not. Peoole get offended by the stupidest stuff. A mutt is a mutt it's a word, who cares. I own mutts, not a designer dog.
No dogs did not come about naturally human bred, I don't really know why you're being so combative. Calling us arrogant, and hypocrites is just plain arrogance from yourself.
The Doberman was bred with all those for a specific purpose, just like all purebreds.
A lot of us on here own mutts, I am one of those people.
Both my mutts have odd problems my Doberman does not, for instance: my chi mix has a bad underbite, his left ear can't go backwards on its own, he's duck footed, but I don't love him any less, but these things with him are not what I would call healthy.
My shep mix, her spine is to long making ability to sit correctly or comfortably and in the end will probably resort to back problems as she ages.
So to claim one is "healthier" doesn't stand.
As I said you have no standard for mixes, you have no knowledge of lineage, temperaments of the parents, temperaments of how the pups will be, I mention temperament because that a huge aspect to having a dog that is capable of doing certain tasks, height, weight, health.
I don't think it's fair for you to call us arrogant , because we're not. We respect quality breeders.
 
Oh cool, she's cute. Actually I wasn't looking at her; I can never figure out how to make profile pics big enough to really see (even before my eyes started failing me!), and I hate that because I love puppies...mutts, "full blooded" Dobermans, and everything in between (does that exist??!!...in between??...I'm sure it does, because people will do anything for a $!)
Glad you weren't upset; I hate conflict.
No one in Germany is like me; no one in the world is like me. I'm one of a kind! (Insert smiley face...my emojis won't come up!)
Again, welcome to the forum; you certainly sound like you know a lot about dogs, and I love info.!
Oh, yeah, not surprised I'm mistaken...happens all the time!
 
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Well if most vets would disagree with what you're feeding your dogs, then you keep feeding them what you want at your own and your dogs peril. I personally cooperate with my doctor for my kids as I cooperate with the vet for my dogs. Reputable breeders of the Doberman, also cooperate with their vets to produce healthy pups. Healthy, within the capabilities of the breed of course.

Breeding any dog just for profit is wrong. It knackers the female and it produces weaker pups as the dog grows older. Once or twice is enough if you want to avoid cancers and still births.

And no, reputable breeders do not always produce healthy dogs. Some of their pups despite their best efforts test positive for hereditary disease and they come spayed or neutered. There are reputable breeders of Shar Peis and Great Danes but they still succumb to their breed's poor genetics due to their limited gene pool and they die at 5-8 years.

I am afraid I cannot see your point...
I feed my dogs the best food they can get, they get a raw diet because I choose to not to feed disgusting filler foods that are sold in the vets offices, vets are not always right. They also have barely any nutrition knowledge. I have done my research. What do you feed your dog ?
I also believe a dog shouldnt be spayed or neutered till they are fully mature so they the hormones they need to mature properly, vets want to snip the dogs at 6 months, how is that ok ?
Yes sometimes reputable breeder have a pup in the mix that isn't as healthy, but at least they test them, do "breeders" of mixed breeds do that ?
You do know that by rescuing you're buying a dog right ? It is purchased.
 
Well if most vets would disagree with what you're feeding your dogs, then you keep feeding them what you want at your own and your dogs peril. I personally cooperate with my doctor for my kids as I cooperate with the vet for my dogs. Reputable breeders of the Doberman, also cooperate with their vets to produce healthy pups. Healthy, within the capabilities of the breed of course.

Breeding any dog just for profit is wrong. It knackers the female and it produces weaker pups as the dog grows older. Once or twice is enough if you want to avoid cancers and still births.

And no, reputable breeders do not always produce healthy dogs. Some of their pups despite their best efforts test positive for hereditary disease and they come spayed or neutered. There are reputable breeders of Shar Peis and Great Danes but they still succumb to their breed's poor genetics due to their limited gene pool and they die at 5-8 years.

I am afraid I cannot see your point...

You may have already mentioned this, but how did you come to get Naomi? Is she a rescued- full -blood mutt?
@AresMyDobie is one of the people on here who I go to for advice because she is ALL about her dogs. She would probably jump in front of a bullet if one of her dogs was "in peril." If I could afford to, I would feed the way she does. In fact, if I could afford to, I would eat the way her dogs do!
 
Ain't that the truth, Boo my shep mix is to long for herself, she actually can't sit properly because of it, I have a bad feeling she will wind up back problems.
Define long lived?
My sis in law had a female that went 14 years.She had one of the pups of the only litter produced go 12 or 13? years, and my father in law got another of the pups that went 11 years.
Interesting and completely off topic the father in laws dog lived the least amount of time but was exercised the most and had pampering in diet;wider variety of foods.
She was also the smallest. Mamma was way beyond breed standard. Very large! Like a buck thirty or more tall and long.
Jon Snow's Dire wolf would cower! :D

They were by the way absolutely great dogs, the momma dog had a bad habit of bolting at doors to roam but other than that great dogs. You need to realize that a family of ten children produce a ton of children when they grow up. All those children from ages infant and up were in contact with those dogs on the regular.
Lord help the poor soul that raised a hand to any of them or attempted any monkey business.



'Define Long Lived'......ummm anything longer than the average life expectancy of the breed? The longer, the better?
 
'Define Long Lived'......ummm anything longer than the average life expectancy of the breed? The longer, the better?
Well you said in Japan pre WWII they were much longer lived. I was wondering how long that is?
What is the average expectancy today?
 
You may have already mentioned this, but how did you come to get Naomi? Is she a rescued- full -blood mutt?
@AresMyDobie is one of the people on here who I go to for advice because she is ALL about her dogs. She would probably jump in front of a bullet if one of her dogs was "in peril." If I could afford to, I would feed the way she does. In fact, if I could afford to, I would eat the way her dogs do!
You and Jax are welcome at my house anytime :)
 
Lol I don't know why mutt is a bad word lol I love my mutts but I don't make them out to be something their not. Peoole get offended by the stupidest stuff. A mutt is a mutt it's a word, who cares. I own mutts, not a designer dog.
No dogs did not come about naturally human bred, I don't really know why you're being so combative. Calling us arrogant, and hypocrites is just plain arrogance from yourself.
The Doberman was bred with all those for a specific purpose, just like all purebreds.
A lot of us on here own mutts, I am one of those people.
Both my mutts have odd problems my Doberman does not, for instance: my chi mix has a bad underbite, his left ear can't go backwards on its own, he's duck footed, but I don't love him any less, but these things with him are not what I would call healthy.
My shep mix, her spine is to long making ability to sit correctly or comfortably and in the end will probably resort to back problems as she ages.
So to claim one is "healthier" doesn't stand.
As I said you have no standard for mixes, you have no knowledge of lineage, temperaments of the parents, temperaments of how the pups will be, I mention temperament because that a huge aspect to having a dog that is capable of doing certain tasks, height, weight, health.
I don't think it's fair for you to call us arrogant , because we're not. We respect quality breeders.

A mutt is not a 'bad' word. It's a man-made inaccuracy. Words are important my dear. You wouldn't call someone of african heritage the N word and walk away penalty free. You may find the offense 'stupid' but we don't define what others find offensive. The offended party does. But to clear the air, I am not offended by the word but by the 'attitude' often exhibited in over-the-top reactions in purebred forums. I have seen comments like 'monstrosity', 'horrible', 'vile' to refer to both people and animals. For many, love of a breed, a team, a nation goes too far. For many, their dogs become status symbols.

I cannot assess your other dogs, I will take you on your word that your chi-mix has a bad underbite however you've come to that conclusion.

Standards again....another man-made construct. A dog that can live well and function naturally is the standard. There are anal standards excluding certain color formations in all breeds irrespective of the dog's ability and suitability to perform tasks or their health.

I respect quality breeders too and for the past 10 years I have been studying my butt off to become one eventually. I have yet to breed dogs. But respecting breeders and clasping pearls every time we see a mixed breed or a new breed when at some point in time our breed was also just that, a mutt, is unexamined.
 
honestly I'm tired of arguing with you over petty nonsense. Please don't call me dear. Have a good weekend, I'm going to go enjoy mine now instead of argue with someone, we're not gonna see eye to eye on this so agree to disagree. :beer:
 
I feed my dogs the best food they can get, they get a raw diet because I choose to not to feed disgusting filler foods that are sold in the vets offices, vets are not always right. They also have barely any nutrition knowledge. I have done my research. What do you feed your dog ?
I also believe a dog shouldnt be spayed or neutered till they are fully mature so they the hormones they need to mature properly, vets want to snip the dogs at 6 months, how is that ok ?
Yes sometimes reputable breeder have a pup in the mix that isn't as healthy, but at least they test them, do "breeders" of mixed breeds do that ?
You do know that by rescuing you're buying a dog right ? It is purchased.

Raw diet? Raw meat? You do realize a raw diet is not the absolute best idea to feed a 100 pound dog? Especially when raw meat often carries disease.
But OK, let's whip them out and measure them....I feed my dog: COOKED high quality meats supported by vegetables as an overtly protein rich diet often, in large breeds, contributes to panosteitis and other related conditions. I give her glucosamine in her water for her joints and a host of other minerals and vitamins. I also often give her frozen tablets of coconut oil to combat inflammation and promote coat, organ and bone health. All stuff recommended by my very knowledgeable vet.

On spaying and neutering. Vets only recommend this for the simple reason, that most people who want a pet, don't want or know how to deal with a female's heat and they also want to avoid mishaps at the doggy park. Lawsuits etc. So the standard practice is to neuter before the onset of breeding urges. No, it's not ok. But it mitigates somewhat other problems, such as Fido breaking through the fence and knocking someone else's dog up. Not everyone should own a dog ideally but since you can't stop that, it makes sense to stop the dog from doing what comes naturally. It's not the vet's fault. It's society.

'Do you know if breeders of mixed pups test their dogs?' I know some who do. I also believe many don't. In fact I know many purebred breeders who don't. It's all about being a good breeder. What type of dog you breed does not define you. How you do it, does. Different things.

I am also in favor of rescuing. I don't see what your last question is meant to solicit....
 

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