Hey, thanks for the feedback! I want a working-line dobe because I care about nerves, drive, and having a dog that has the look but also can also back it up with the right training and be GOOD at it. I forsure will get my dog into dog sports at some level. I love controlled aggression and I train a lot of military dogs so I have experience with high drive dogs. But I do agree with you about the "look" and standard. Some of these dogs dont look as physically impressive stature-wise, but the athleticism is there and the drive and environmentals is what I value more.
Got ya. Cool.
Very interesting! TY for the rxplanation and USMIL reference.
No dumb questions!
I have followed both Benchmark and Masayas on FB & their websites for years and if you are approved by both and have a choice, I don't think the breeder choice would matter. However do consider and discuss with them exactly what you're looking for because they both have occasional litters that are not as heavy in bite sports as other litters. In other words some litters are very strong active sports prospects while other litters are "working homes only" types that may be over the top for pet owners who dabble in agility and I think both will screen potential owners for this, but best if YOU described what you want to do and your experience in training.
This makes me curious as to why you are looking at Dobermans and/or if you've worked with them in bite work or detection. Only reason I ask is so few Dobermans work in military training anymore and there has been recent discussion on this chat about why. Curious if you have input on that, and also why if you worked with GSDs/Mals/Dutchies in bite work or Labs/Field dogs in detection what attracted you to the Doberman breed?
They may say "not much" or they may go into a hundred details, but it's my understanding that they are "different".No worries! I'm just happy im getting so much feedback so quickly. To me, and a lot of others that evaluate dogs, "environmentals" is the external stimuli that come from a real world settings that can cause a dog to react. Its strongly tied to the dogs "nerves", strong nerves help a dog deal with the environmentals. Environmentals be literally anything... a garbage truck, Halloween props, a trumpet player, slippery surfaces, stairs, etc.. For me, if a dog shows that he always reverts to fear/flight. That's a dog with weak nerves and its probably genetic. But then again there's nuance, i.e. can the dog recover?? Will it go back to the scary thing with reinforcement/reward drive?? If so, that could be just a lack of exposure issue.
Thanks for your input! When I was a kid I thought it was the bigger the better. As I have gained experience and matured I have realized that what I wanted as a kid would have served me no purpose now. But yes, I'm already on a wait list. I will 100% keep yall updated and I plan to take advantage of this awesome forum as much as I can.
I have loved Dobermans since I was a child. The look, the size, the history. It is a shame to me that Dobermans are no longer used for military and police work in the US. For years I have wanted to be a part of a movement that restores the workability of Dobermans. Possibly even breed my own lines one day. I would love to make Dobermans respected in the same conversations with mals and sheps. I gotta start somewhere though, ya know? I plan on getting into IGP or PSA. Maybe lean into scentwork if my dog isn't cut out to compete. But I dont see that being likely with a dog from one of these breeders.This makes me curious as to why you are looking at Dobermans and/or if you've worked with them in bite work or detection. Only reason I ask is so few Dobermans work in military training anymore and there has been recent discussion on this chat about why. Curious if you have input on that, and also why if you worked with GSDs/Mals/Dutchies in bite work or Labs/Field dogs in detection what attracted you to the Doberman breed?
One of the things I learned is that in bite sports is that you find a club and decoy who understands the Doberman is different. My apologies if you are already well aware, but if/when you talk to these breeders and your experience with military dogs, if you've never had a Doberman, ask them about differences in training.
That was my dream too, first seeing the Schutzhund sport in the 1990's, but life got in the way. Was going to try to live that dream getting a puppy after I retired and finally had time to, but found out the hard way that clubs and foundation training are incredibly important. I'm in a remote part of the country and nearest clubs are 3 - 5 hours away (one way). I innocently thought I could teach tracking & obedience on my own, and if I'd had previous hands-on experience with IGP, maybe so. Add to that the covid years and a puppy who was "more dog" than I'd ever experienced... it was hard. We did have the satisfaction of training with a club when I could, got our BH, but went on to other sports that I could do without a club as the traveling and 10 hour days for one or two 15 minutes on the field - when gas was $5/gal - it was close to $100 for a lesson. I did learn a lot though. To get the most bang for my buck I got there first and left last, tried to watch every dog and handler, put in time helping with their trials, added the RH (SAR for sport) program to my training. I was lucky to have a good club with a helper who loved all the breeds and the members of the club were very supportive. I don't regret any of it and my dog has gone on to do many other things, but bite work is still what lights her up the most.
As long as we do some kind of active stuff together she's happy. 
I also would love to get a euro dobermann that has the right temperament and health but also conformation. It seems FCI is the better standard rather than AKC. I don't want hyperstle dobermann and also don't want one that is skinny like a greyhound. Should I be looking at working lines from Europe or showlines? Should I be looking at American at all? Some input would be nice to guide me to a good breeder with the right dog.
There are Euro lines, American lines, South American lines or a balance between them and all of them can have that drive and some of them are too prettified to be able to do it correctly. You could start by looking at the UDC breeder referral and do your research after that.
I definitely will stick to either European or American. The question really is should I be looking at euro show or working line or should I even be looking at american at all if FCI is the better standard unless they adhere to it? Looking to get a dobermann with the right confirmation that has good temperament and health.... not an easy one to answer perhaps but if people here have a good understanding of what the right standard is for a dobermann then it should help narrow things a bit...
What do you plan to do with your future dog? Then look for breeders that are doing what you want your own dog to be able to do. Very few of the top American show lines work in protection and some you will see in companion sports like Obedience, Rally, Agility etc. If you want a dog for looks, lean toward the look you like. If you want to be able to do certain sports or show well, you should look at breeders who specialize in that and prove their dogs in that area. A very few do both. What is the "right temperament" for you? If you want a bold protective dog, do you have experience with this?
Not sure I understand what you mean. There is a standard that the dogs should be of a certain size, with a certain look to their head and body and their temperament should be of a certain character. In real life they can be identified as a Doberman if you saw one a city block away, even if it had natural tails & ears, it is unmistakably a Dobeman. However, if you were to take that same dog to a show, the judges might not give it a 2nd glance, and for that matter you may do the same. Too small you say, or too pointy of a nose or the eyes too round and doe-like, rather than a fierce stare. That is subjective to your opinion, even though the dog may fall into the standard as written. The Blue dog you mention is not in FCI standard. They don't accept Blue of Fawns. So right there you had a perfectly wonderful dog, that wouldn't be acceptable at all by some, but is acceptable by AKC.
Some people like ice skating and others like football. Some Doberman breeders concentrate on breeding a certain look to present in the show ring and they never consider any sports because "it took too much time to train". I mentioned Fast Cat because you didn't even have to train, just turn them loose to chase the lure. They declared it too dangerous and didn't want to take a chance. So that's a far end of that spectrum, but it's out there. The other end is those mentioned in this very thread that breed mainly for a working athlete. Yes they care about looks, but if you have an IGP3 dog bred in America that qualifies for FCI World CH but is disallowed because it's been cropped & docked - So now many working line breeders leave their dogs natural. That won't fly in the American show ring at all. I believe it's allowed, but your could probably count on one hand how many have reached CH level in the last 50 years in AKC with ears & tails intact. The other thing is when they are breeding the very best working lines and they have the exact temperament they've worked for years to get right, and is still sound doing extreme sports and still trialing at age 9, they have little to no interest in getting a beauty queen look by crossing over into the show dogs with zero sports titles. Chances are they would produce puppies that could work a little but not to top level and be too plain to please the judges in the show ring. And be a handful for a companion house dog.
That's why I asked if I should be looking at FCI standard rather than AKC because they are different. FCI is more detailed with the temperament requirement as well and require working abilities rather than just looking at if the dog is fearless or friendly etc. It has requirements for weight and height where as AKC dos not have weight limit. You can have upto 4 missing teeth in AKC etc. The european FCI standard dogs tend to be stronger and thicker than AKC standards dogs as well from my understanding.
I should definitely look into UDC. Is the membership free with UDC?
Europeans don't always fit the FCI standard to a T, nor do American bred Dobermans always fit the AKC standard. I don't know what area you are planning to do your puppy search, but as I said before, have in your mind what you want and then search for that. Not sure about other countries but a Doberman in the US that has an OFA CHIC number has been tested and passed all the heath tests recommended for the breed. That is including detention and the Dobermans temperament test called WAE/WAC. If you find a puppy litter with both parents having a CHIC number, that is as good as you can find on paper. It doesn't mean the perfect dog has a CHIC, it's just another thing to look into. AND, it still doesn't say if it's taller or heavier or show type or working type. There is no place to point you to, you just have to search out what you're looking for.
The website is free to look at to read their rules, and promotions of upcoming events and they have a breeder page so you can check out different breeders websites or fb pages. To belong to the club and get their magazine and register your puppy with them for trialing you must be a club member you must have a sponsor and it's $40 per year.
