How Much is Too Much?

[coletteslove]

Hi, all. I’m back with yet another question.

I’m sure it seems like I’m asking you all to “hold my hand” through this puppy search process, but I’ve just never had to contact breeders before for anything. I’m not trying to piss anyone off (lol).

How many breeders is too many when it comes to contacting? I made an earlier post where I asked for personal experiences from people who have bought from southeastern breeders, and while I did pick a favorite, I still made an Excel sheet with all the others listed so I could have a central place to keep all my research, red flags, and what I like about specific programs.

But should I only contact one at a time? Should I contact them all? I’m only planning on getting on one waitlist, but until I reach that point, should I be talking to multiple people at once? I heard it may be an inconvenience for breeders.

 

[BGpa]

Hi, all. I’m back with yet another question.

I’m sure it seems like I’m asking you all to “hold my hand” through this puppy search process, but I’ve just never had to contact breeders before for anything. I’m not trying to piss anyone off (lol).

How many breeders is too many when it comes to contacting? I made an earlier post where I asked for personal experiences from people who have bought from southeastern breeders, and while I did pick a favorite, I still made an Excel sheet with all the others listed so I could have a central place to keep all my research, red flags, and what I like about specific programs.

But should I only contact one at a time? Should I contact them all? I’m only planning on getting on one waitlist, but until I reach that point, should I be talking to multiple people at once? I heard it may be an inconvenience for breeders.

I'm not a breeder but interested in the answers from those who are, or know them from purchasing dogs on a wait list.

If I were you, I would simply ask the breeder what they think of contacting breeders after putting money down to get yourself on their wait list. Life happens and its ok to have a plan b, imho.

DPCA has some good articles, like this, that include discussion of waiting lists, deposits.

Buying A Doberman Pinscher | DPCA

dpca.org

 

[LifeofRubie]

I would reach out to your top favorites with a prepared statement right up front. And my apologies, I did not read your other post but will go back and do so!

Briefly describe what you're looking for (red female for pet home or black male in a pet home but with interest in agility/barn hunt/obedience, etc), your history with dogs, your living and family situation, and your timeline. I wouldn't get into the price convo right up front. It's very likely you will not hear back from everyone.

 

[JanS]

These days I know which breeder I want a pup from so it's just the 1. When we got Albert I applied with 3 of them I believe and was approved by all of them. When I made the decision, I just let the other 2 know I have a different pup coming.

Many of them will have an application on their site and they will get back to you after you submit it. That's a good starting point since most of them are extremely busy and calling them isn't the best option, but many will get back to you when they have time.

 

[Ddski5]

I live in South Louisiana.
Whenever I first started, I emailed two and received no reply. I emailed three more with no reply. Then I casted a net of Texas, Arkansas, Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama and Florida.
After about 4 weeks I received emails from 3 in Texas and 2 in Georgia. My first Doberman was from Texas. Then, I found out about Melrae’s through this site and was able to get a pup from Melrae’s.

TLDR: send out at least 3 and then work from there. If all three reply and you have your choice- it would be in this order:
1. Health testing
2. Temperament
3. Drive
4. Ears shape

1, 2, and 3 is not optional.
I like the whip at the tips.

 

[Ravenbird]

Whenever I first started, I emailed two and received no reply. I emailed three more with no reply.

Yup.
And to add, you may get approved, think you're all set, then start getting bad vibes and YOU want to back out before committing. Give yourself options but at the same time, know what you want and don't settle for less. I was not asked for a deposit until the litter was born and there was at least one that matched - in my case I wanted a black female and the litter I was approved for had 3 males & one female and the waitlist had people ahead of me with a female preferred. I got preferences for the next litter and was willing to wait for it but the bitch did not get pregnant so now it would be almost a year before that breeder would have another litter. So I had to move on, but no, there was no money put down to be on a wait list.

 

[JanS]

I was not asked for a deposit until the litter was born and there was at least one that matched - in my case I wanted a black female and the litter I was approved for had 3 males & one female and the waitlist had people ahead of me with a female preferred. I got preferences for the next litter and was willing to wait for it but the bitch did not get pregnant so now it would be almost a year before that breeder would have another litter. So I had to move on, but no, there was no money put down to be on a wait list.

I agree. I've never been asked for a deposit until there is a confirmed litter and there is a pup for me so I can be sure to lock it into place.

 

[coletteslove]

1. Health testing
2. Temperament
3. Drive
4. Ears shape

Funny enough, this was my exact list of “requirements” for picking my favorites, with ear shape also being at #4 for me. It’s not something I’m horribly picky about, it would have to be an absolutely hideous ear crop for me to not even consider buying, but I’ve definitely opened some breeder sites and gone “those are some gorgeous ears”.

And to everyone else, thank you! I’ll start small and move on if there are no responses or I see red flags, and knowing that the deposit isn’t required until the litter is on the ground is also very informative. At this moment, I’ve already received a couple of positive responses from some breeders, and one of them even gave me some more referrals and recommendations (it seems like whenever I try to narrow down my list, it gets bigger haha!)

 

[Ravenbird]

knowing that the deposit isn’t required until the litter is on the ground is also very informative.

It may depend on the breeder, I've seen stories about some breeders requiring a deposit just to be on a wait list. That would turn me off, personally.

If you've never posted ears before and you are not going to show conformation, I suggest opting out for the really long show cut ears. I'm seeing way too many frustrated first timers with pet/sport puppies with long show cut ears that need posting beyond the dogs first birthday. Every puppy is different in ear leather and you don't know if yours will be easy or not until you're well into it. Most first-timers are really about over the posting in a few months and so many give up by age 9 or 10 months. Hopefully you are favoring a medium or medium long crop and your breeder will agree to that. There are pages and pages of ear crops in this thread:

Thread 'Crop Pics - Lets see your style!'

Apr 10, 2009

The best advice I ever got regarding getting my dogs ears cropped was from the vet tech... she told me to find some pics of what I liked... and bring them in.

So I did that, a collection of what I liked as well as what i didnt want!!!

So what better place to have examples for ears than our own people?? If you have any nice shots of crops, post em here, a lot of people have different tastes and are drawn to different things. And it would be awesome to have the resource in our our place to see different things.

Below I have Karmas cut, this was after a few weeks of...

• hrd2gt
• Replies: 569
• Forum: Doberman Puppies

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Enjoy the adventure, it's really good that you are doing your research and asking questions!

 

[Rits]

A small waitlist deposit isn't unusual at all to show that you are serious and committed to getting a puppy from x breeder. Too many people poke around then the breeder tells people they likely won't have anything for others because there is so much interest, then potentially a person or two "waiting" decides to go with the puppy born now vs waiting for yours and now the breeder turned away potential homes and have puppies needing homes.

I've found other breeder's deposits and my own waitlist deposit is $100. It usually is "non-refundable" but I personally have refunded it when something unexpected comes up and I wasn't able to have the litter I expected when I expected and won't be having another litter for more than a year. A larger deposit is put down once the litter is born to "hold" a puppy for you, you won't know which one until they are 7-8 weeks+ but definitely there should be one in there for you.

When I was looking, I'd contact 3 at a time, give them a week, then contact 3 more. If more than one contacted back and I liked them both, I would be upfront with them and tell them that I'm on another waitlist. One waitlist I was informed was very long so I likely wasn't going to get a puppy from them but it gave me a backup option. As it turned out, I didn't get a puppy from the long waitlist and the other breeder was ok that I was on it and after a few litters, I got my girl Ripley. That other breeder was Melissa with Melrae.

 

[Ravenbird]

A small waitlist deposit isn't unusual at all to show that you are serious and committed to getting a puppy from x breeder. Too many people poke around then the breeder tells people they likely won't have anything for others because there is so much interest, then potentially a person or two "waiting" decides to go with the puppy born now vs waiting for yours and now the breeder turned away potential homes and have puppies needing homes.

Good to hear a breeders point of view! I can see this happening, especially with the most popular breeders which are hard to obtain from, and only have one or two litters a year, but have also seen it the BYB's that are out to get your $ first then you are no longer so important. So I guess while searching you have to take each breeder as an individual and that you are willing to wait for. What about paying your waitlist deposit and the next two breedings they do are not as ideal to you? I've seen some matings from the same breeder that I would definitely want and then another that I would definitely pass on. So yeah, options and timeline and puppy fever, especially if you don't have a dog at all.

For someone looking for their first puppy as it drags on, the puppy fever gets intense (as almost all of us know!).

One waitlist I was informed was very long so I likely wasn't going to get a puppy from them but it gave me a backup option.

That's why, like you, I say find more than one breeder that you like so if things fall through or come together unexpectedly, you have left yourself open to options. And be honest with the breeders who have approved you, let them know what you're doing and why. Let them know that they are respected and that's why you chose them and hopefully they will respect you as a buyer (I'm especially referencing a first time Doberman buyer here) for keeping options open so they don't have to wait another year.

From a breeders point of view, planning a litter, assume there might be 6 puppies, would you want a waitlist of 8 - 10? Would you be ok with some of them saying they were also on a waitlist with another breeder? How do you address that? For learning sake, no judgement.

 

[Rits]

From a breeders point of view, planning a litter, assume there might be 6 puppies, would you want a waitlist of 8 - 10?

Depends if I was planning to keep one. For 6 puppies, and in a perfect world, I usually like to have 2 pet homes, 2 performance homes, 2 show homes. If I have more than 6 waiting, they usually are all pet homes.

Would you be ok with some of them saying they were also on a waitlist with another breeder? How do you address that? For learning sake, no judgement.

Yes, I would be. But as the litter was born, I would think they would have a good idea who they wanted to go with by then because usually I've spoken in depth with my future puppy owners well before the litter was here, and after the first few weeks, you'll see my puppy raising practices and live updates (if you haven't already from past litters) to have a good idea of what you will get by going with me. If a buyer backs out now (litter just born), its not the end of the world. By ~6-7 weeks, ear crops are happening so hold puppy deposits are typically due as the window for the puppy being vulnerable to passing has come and gone so we know there is a high high expectation that you will be getting a puppy from this litter (unless for some reason x puppy absolutely wasn't suited for you...ie: way too pushy/busy for a first time low key pet home). You can choose to move on before putting the second deposit down, but I've never had that happen. The deposit at this point is a little bit larger because it would be a bit more inconvenient to have a puppy a few weeks from going home to now need a new home. Larger breeders that maybe breed more litters a year, have a large following, and a long waitlist, have the finances where they can afford to eat these costs and always has backup homes, so they can afford to not collect deposits to begin with. A breeder like me that only breeds primarily for themselves first, and then only one or two litters every couple of years, can't since a lot of people are looking for a puppy "now" or are instant gratification based so they don't want to wait around on a 1-3 year waitlist. Hopefully that make sense on deposits with different types of breeders.

 

[Ravenbird]

Makes perfect sense. I think it helps buyers (again, new to purchasing from a kennel) to understand what it ethical and what might raise eyebrows. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and a breeders point of view!

 

[coletteslove]

I've found other breeder's deposits and my own waitlist deposit is $100

Hi! This is a very reasonable deposit price for a waitlist, and I wouldn’t be turned off by a breeder if they requested this. However, a couple of the breeders I’ve found (not a lot) have asked for something close to $500+ just to be put on the waitlist, and I don’t think I’d feel comfortable with that big of an initial deposit, especially since there’s no way of telling if the upcoming litter will have a puppy that matches with me.

That's why, like you, I say find more than one breeder that you like so if things fall through or come together unexpectedly, you have left yourself open to options.

Yes, this is exactly what I was concerned about. I’m a person that likes to have a backup plan or two because I know that life happens, especially with something that involves a literal living being giving birth. It’d make me feel a lot more relaxed in the process if I knew that I had built rapport with a couple of breeders. If one fell through, I would hate to have to go back to the square one of initial introductions, not knowing who would/wouldn’t approve my application, and not knowing who to reach out to.

That other breeder was Melissa with Melrae.

This is probably the third/fourth user on this forum to put in a good word about Melrae, which makes me happy because she is one of the breeders at the top of my list. She’s one of the few breeders I haven’t had to ask for buyer referrals because I’ve already gotten so many. She seems very nice, too.

 

[JanS]

This is probably the third/fourth user on this forum to put in a good word about Melrae

And she has a crop vet who does a beautiful job.

 

[Ddski5]

This is probably the third/fourth user on this forum to put in a good word about Melrae, which makes me happy because she is one of the breeders at the top of my list. She’s one of the few breeders I haven’t had to ask for buyer referrals because I’ve already gotten so many. She seems very nice, too.

Not to negate any of the other breeders but it’s gonna be extremely hard to beat Melissa at Melrae’s. It’s been 5yrs and I still text her stupid off the wall questions: DCM, long term health, breeder AKC register, show contender personalities, etc…she always answers. Just a wonderful person imho.

As far as my Freyja’s characteristics:
- eager to learn/train
- good weight and shape
- wonderful temperament
- medium drive but prob could be enhanced if I accentuated it.
- protective
- loyal
- bonded well with me
- velcro
- not nervous gervous
- no separation anxiety
- she does not whine or cry, but we trained on this

Please keep us updated. Sure would like to know and see….

Regardless, your biggest issue is gonna be your first year.
Puppy
Potty training
Crate training
Separation anxiety training
Ears
Obedience
DoberShark
Ears
Obedience
Doberteens
Obedience
Obedience

Basic obedience, intermediate, advanced obedience classes are a must. It also helps with socialization and impulsivity issues.

They can be fricking monsters if you don’t train them daily both mentally and physically.

But you put in the time and energy for the first year, they are absolutely amazing companions that will always be there for you.

 

[BGpa]

Not to negate any of the other breeders but it’s gonna be extremely hard to beat Melissa at Melrae’s. It’s been 5yrs and I still text her stupid off the wall questions: DCM, long term health, breeder AKC register, show contender personalities, etc…she always answers. Just a wonderful person imho.

As far as my Freyja’s characteristics:
- eager to learn/train
- good weight and shape
- wonderful temperament
- medium drive but prob could be enhanced if I accentuated it.
- protective
- loyal
- bonded well with me
- velcro
- not nervous gervous
- no separation anxiety
- she does not whine or cry, but we trained on this

Please keep us updated. Sure would like to know and see….

Regardless, your biggest issue is gonna be your first year.
Puppy
Potty training
Crate training
Separation anxiety training
Ears
Obedience
DoberShark
Ears
Obedience
Doberteens
Obedience
Obedience

Basic obedience, intermediate, advanced obedience classes are a must. It also helps with socialization and impulsivity issues.

They can be fricking monsters if you don’t train them daily both mentally and physically.

But you put in the time and energy for the first year, they are absolutely amazing companions that will always be there for you.

I've read her mentioned with praise at "the other doberman" forum.
Iirc she has placed a couple of dobes in SD homes, which is a "very stable temperament in the uplinr" as a first requirement for someone shopping for that. I'd want to see documented obedience titles too.