I found this The DPCA | Judges Education
That is what I can't seem to see. If you look at the ideal head in that link it looks nothing like the head shot earlier in the thread.
I just don't see how the head or neck of the black dog compares to ideal. They look different to me. What am I missing?
I guess that I should add we have a thread based on that link.
An in depth study of the Doberman Standard [AKC]
I guess I should continue my questions there.
If you're referring to the black one Genny just posted above on this page I think she's between 1 & 2 years old.
Archer
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My guess this is a young dog and I am assuming is a bitch and not a dog. Our breed standard allows for a difference between dog and bitch, but the ideals are similar. Most show dogs finish before the age of 2 and most younger than that so they are not fully mature. We also have to take into account that we are looking at only one picture of this dog. To fully and fairly assess it, multiple pictures should be viewed and it should be seen in person. The picture of the black dog is also of the dog in the sitting position. The drawing is of a dog standing. It does make a difference. Also the handler is cranking up the head, which is not a natural stance. Honestly, it's a bad photo to judge from as you also need to see the whole body to assess the balance of the dog..
Although I agree she needs a little more underjaw, her head is not snipey if you draw the lines of angle. She is what we refer to as a more refined bitch. I also would bet she is long in body
@JanS, is this Pardi?
Although I agree she needs a little more underjaw, her head is not snipey if you draw the lines of angle. She is what we refer to as a more refined bitch. I also would bet she is long in body
@JanS, is this Pardi?
Thanks for explaining it better. I can't figure out why I can't umm...for lack of a better analogy, put what I read in the standard to the dog. It's weird because that is usually my specialty. I am a very visual person and don't usually struggle with that.
Might be that I usually use that ability in a more artistic way, IDK.
I think, in what I have seen, that when showing in AKC shows, we present our dogs to many "all breed" judges. Meaning they judge many breeds and the Doberman may not/most likely is not the breed that they started in. Unless things have changed to become a judge you have to breed, and I think finish yourself no pro handler, three dogs, get sponsors from other jusges, and then take a course/test.
Once youre approved for one breed you start getting approved for other breeds, until you eventually can judge the whole group, more groups and then BIS. So usually people stay within their own group, like working group. That doesn't mean the person handing out ribbons really understands the breeds. We all can interpret a standard in many different ways. I think it also means there is a general outline/frame they like to see as the dog moves. And a general way of going they like to see. Speciality shows generally have a breeder of that breed.
Anyway, what I'm saying is the people who hand out ribbons tend to control what excels in the ring, and what excels in the ring might not be to "purest's" standards. But what excels is generally what is s bred for... For example Akitas are supposed to track on their down and back (basically all four feet land on the same line) and as they move they should have a lower head set with a neck that comes out at about a 10 o'clock. Last time I watched aa dog show mist of the Akitas were higher head set and free moving coming and going so legs on each side drew a line ending in two lines of foot prints.
Once youre approved for one breed you start getting approved for other breeds, until you eventually can judge the whole group, more groups and then BIS. So usually people stay within their own group, like working group. That doesn't mean the person handing out ribbons really understands the breeds. We all can interpret a standard in many different ways. I think it also means there is a general outline/frame they like to see as the dog moves. And a general way of going they like to see. Speciality shows generally have a breeder of that breed.
Anyway, what I'm saying is the people who hand out ribbons tend to control what excels in the ring, and what excels in the ring might not be to "purest's" standards. But what excels is generally what is s bred for... For example Akitas are supposed to track on their down and back (basically all four feet land on the same line) and as they move they should have a lower head set with a neck that comes out at about a 10 o'clock. Last time I watched aa dog show mist of the Akitas were higher head set and free moving coming and going so legs on each side drew a line ending in two lines of foot prints.
Panama
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Good friend of mine imported a boy directly from Argentina, and his temperament is amazing.
That's good to know for 2 reasons. First I hate to hear of a dobie with a crappy temperament and second I now know not to listen to my source.
That's not so bad. It fits him.
To most Drake would have an ugly head. Me, I'm not so picky, I like his head, especially when he is looking straight at me.
Almost straight on. I think I do have some that are really straight on but can't remember where I put them and yep, I'm too tired to look.
Yeah, that was Oji at about 6 months. His head appearance has improved a little bit.
Drake's head is great! One thing I notice is his snout gives the appearance of being just a bit shorter in length than some. But it's gorgeous. You can see more underjaw in Drake than Oji. Just compare the distance between where the underjaw ends and the distance forward to the tip of the nose. This affects snipeyness. And of course there's the depth of underjaw as well.
But all this said, I would fear a bite from Oji, no doubt.
I think both Oji and Drake are nice looking dogs. Not perfect, but show me one that is. Drake has his faults but overall I think he is beautiful. The few times he has been in the conformation ring he did well. The judges all absolutely love his movement so that tells he he has to be put together right. I'm happy with him and that's what matters.
bomary
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Someone needs to bite the bullet and go ahead and write a yellow book..."Doberman Standard For Dummies." Or...if you don't want to pay for the rights to use "for dummies," just make it"Doberman Standard For Brandee."
Snipey? Wet?...I mean I can kind of figure it all out, but...
Snipey? Wet?...I mean I can kind of figure it all out, but...
Actually, that group of illustrations posted in this thread are pretty informative. I can take a pic of another group of drawings and info. from a Dobe book I have and post it here. May do that tonight.
Now, "wet?" Are you talking about the Dobe being a "dry mouthed" breed meaning they should not drool?
Oh shoot. I just realized that Dobe book has been taken off our living room bookcase shelf and relegated to the basement. See, bookshelves in this house must meet certain standards of appearance.
WiglWerm
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I think that has a lot to do with the "snipey" look to the head and diminutive look to the bottom jaw.
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