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When you decide to breed or buy outside the box

Discussion in 'Doberman Breeders' started by Dobs4ever, Apr 14, 2011.

  1. Teufelhund in AZ

    Teufelhund in AZ Active Member

    Not to go off topic here but, how do you know who authored the post quoted from the beware site?

     
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  2. rottencatz

    rottencatz Member

    I am sorry Trinity Dobes, but that is not my post. I have not posted on "another board" for quite a long time. My ID on "another board" is Starkeeper. Not sure who's post you are reading on "another board", but it is not mine. I enjoy Doberman-Chat and have nothing bad to say about this forum. Please go back to "another board" and check the identity of who wrote those comments.
     
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  3. rottencatz

    rottencatz Member

    Those comments were not made by me. I have not posted anything on "another board" for quite a long time. I would appreciate her clarifying the author so that it is not linked to me. I understand her being upset with those "another board" comments, but I do not want it to be at my expense!
     
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  4. Teufelhund in AZ

    Teufelhund in AZ Active Member

    I thought you were here long before those comment were posted... TwoPeas would have been my guess. The wording is almost exactly the same as their intro post. Of course, I have no idea who really posted that.
     
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  5. TrinityDobes

    TrinityDobes Novitiate

    Sorry Rottencatz, please accept my appology - the poster was Rottenvonspotten and I made the mistake of Assuming the two "rottens" were the same. I do appologize for making the wrong assumption and drawing the wrong conclusion.

    So instead let me say that the DCF member who I am upset with is the one that has the User ID Rottenvonspotten on "another board" - I am glad to know that it was not you though Rottencatz, as my feelings were hurt. I do hope you will accept my humblest appology.

    Again, a good lesson for me - I should have checked the member list and Rottenvonspotten is a member here under the same user ID - I should have been more diligent in ferreting out the correct user to express my dissapointment with.
     
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  6. rottencatz

    rottencatz Member

    Trinity Dobes, It took me a few minutes, but I found this link on "another board" and the person who made the comments. RottenVonSpotten is not me! That person lives in Colorado, I live in Pennsylvania. I do not want other members of this forum being upset with me over something caused by mistaken identity.
     
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  7. Teufelhund in AZ

    Teufelhund in AZ Active Member

    Here, here! I never doubted you Rotten... :)
     
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  8. rottencatz

    rottencatz Member

    Our posts must have crossed. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure that it was corrected. Dont want anyone upset over mistaken identity. I do not post on "another board" anymore. I see they have been quite busy lately, though.
     
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  9. rottencatz

    rottencatz Member

    Apology accepted hun!! :D
     
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  10. TrinityDobes

    TrinityDobes Novitiate

    I also went and put a red "edit" in my original post so people reading through the thread will know I made an incorrect assumption as to the poster on "another board" -

    I also checked and Rottenspotten has not ever made a post here, but she last was lurking on the forum last Wednesday.
     
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  11. rottencatz

    rottencatz Member

    Dont know if RottenVonSpotten is guy/girl. It says their dog's name is Otto. I am sure there's gotta be a way to find out info on a "another board" member. They do it all the time when they go after people. I get emails all the time from friends who tell me they are saying "smack" about someone they/we know and then I go on to see what they are saying.

    I do not post on there anymore. They really upset me after they came after me for defending my breeder.

    One of their members even posted a comment about the length of my male's tail at a dog show stating it was too long. (yes, it was and we had it fixed) but the point was she was posting this on the forum like it was NBC nightly news or something. Even went so far as to state my breeder was unethical because she didnt have it repaired. :drama:

    Just dont want to be mixed up with a different poster.
     
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  12. DoberDon

    DoberDon Hot Topics Subscriber

    I firmly believe that many people shouldn't be allowed to have any dog,let alone a dobe.
    I got my first dobe in the 70's and have had 3 others since,I've never bought from any breeder,all have been rescued either from an owner or a rescue group.None have been "top" bred yet I have absolutely no doubt that on my property every one of them would protected me in an emergency.In a large shutz(sp)arena in a strange city with tons of strange dogs around,would they have been able to tell whether it was for real? I don't know.
    I try and look at it like nobody's perfect,everybody has places in their life worthy of criticism.All we can do is try to do the right thing as often as we can.If you're a breeder who's doing everything right,think before you criticize someone else or they may rightfully criticize you for the gas-hog you drive,or not recycling,buying Chinese products,etc.etc.
    I don't want to offend anyone who's involved but when I look at what the AKC standards and the show world have done to many breeds(like the bulldog )in the pursuit of some idealistic look,I'm skeptical about whether many clubs and"serious" breeders are really helping the breed.I'm guessing some are really trying while many care mostly about looks,awards and status.I've read that the lifespan of a Dobe is actually reduced significantly from 50yrs ago,don't know if it's true.I don't see that kind of pretentious breeder as any better than any BYB.Just breed me a healthier,longer lived dobermans without losing their intelligence or personality,I don't care at all if it's inside some "standards"someone decided was the ideal doberman.It'd be very interesting to know what Louis Doberman would think about the standard.
    I've dealt personally with the morality of it by deciding that I will only rescue as long as there are dobes being PTS.If I buy,I worry that I'd directly or indirectly encourage someone to produce another dobe that could well end up in a shelter,pound or PTS.
    I also did a little polite "sparring" with someone here a couple yrs ago over whether albino dobes actually had health and temperament issues,after going back and forth a couple times I could tell they had their mind made up and were just getting upset so I dropped it and it sounds like they now realize the truth.
    Also look at the fact that altho humans could easily test before"breeding"for genetic problems,we don't.I know many,many people(Washington's full of them LOL)that shouldn't be allowed to have kids!! I'm not even sure how I feel about whether people should be genetically tested,there are huge pro's but also serious questions about freedoms and society.Hitler would've scientifically bred people and probably dobes too but I wouldn't want to live in that kind of society no matter how impressive the people and dobermans would be.
     
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  13. Nupe

    Nupe Notable member

    you go girl!!!!...well written!!
     
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  14. Dobs4ever

    Dobs4ever Hot Topics Subscriber

    Rotten - I will only say this to start - it breaks my heart that anyone would judge someone especially some one who has suffered what you have suffered - the loss of a child. But what did you do -picked yourself up and found something to give a little pleasure - isn't that what our dogs are suppose to do above all???

    You can't judge someone else unless you have walked in their shoes - I have seen people openly tell out and out lies about someone and you never see an apology never - well girl you just got one from a much bigger person than many I have seen.

    I always remind myself that many of the greatest discoveries this world has were MISTAKES that turned out to be gold. So I have never believed there was only one way to do things right. The right doesn't change but how we get there might. Some march to a different drummer and want to make their own way. Anyone can go out and buy a champion yada yada yada. I don't think you can go outside the "right" box but I do think there is more than one way to get there.

    If you talk to died in the wool show people conformation is GOD and rules. If you talk to died in the wool working folks - Schutzhund is the only dog worth breathing. And then we have the health nuts who run around like chicken little screaming we are all doomed.

    We have chosen to use these things as a battering ram to separate the good from the bad - Sorry doesn't wash. No where in the definition of respectable do I read - Bred X # of champions. I read things like trustworthy, honest, stands behind their word, big enough to admit when they are wrong, treats their fellow man with dignity, Stands up for what is right and therefore EARNS respect becoming respectable. Never does it say showed more dogs than Atilla the Hun.

    Folks facts are facts - small dogs live longer than bigger dogs. Dogs of old died early just like we have today.

    Go read the story of Ilena and the 7 sires - 3 died prior to 10 and that was way back in the 40's. What we have is what we have. We want to improve it and through better testing, better feeding, better exercise, better environment we hope to improve it but they as we are all destined to die.

    All I can say is if you feel you are alone in dogs you have not been to enough shows, attended enough seminars, trained with enough great folks and share the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat with enough other people to know that there are a lot of great breeders, trainers and owners out there.

    REMEMBER the stool - how do you make it rock solid???? Take off the blinders - open your mind and see the inconsistencies in things are are being promoted that if they win the dogs will loose.
     
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  15. rottencatz

    rottencatz Member

    Thank you very much for your kind words. I have become very passionate about the breed and showing is what keeps me alive right now. Literally! It tears me up that the economy sucks so bad, because as gas prices rise and the cost of food goes up, I have to look more closely at my checkbook to see if I can do that dog show next month or month after that. I am finding more and more, that I am tightening my grip on my purse and cant do it.

    It breaks my heart, because it's the only thing I look forward to. The only thing since my son died. I hope he would be proud of me for what I am doing. I was a workaholic before his accident. Now, I cant even go back to work from my PTSD and depression. Somedays I cant even get out of bed it is so bad.

    Everyone on here has been very nice to me and I truly appreciate it. Thank you so much for the support.

    I really do need it right now more than ever. He was only 15 when he was killed. Should be graduating HS next month and as that approaches I am having more anxiety attacks and crying spells. Each day I feel more and more sad. Its a horrible feeling to wake up and know your child is no longer there.

    My dogs are my kids now, all 7 of them! My cats too. My husband says it could be worse. I could be drinking and doing drugs to ease the pain. Instead, I have dobermans. They are the most loving animal I have EVER had. I used to have Rotties. As much as I loved them ( my last had bone cancer) they do not compare to my dobes.

    Thank you again. Hugs to you all!
     
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  16. TrinityDobes

    TrinityDobes Novitiate

    Hugs right back at you !! and I hope we can be here to help distract you when you need us -

    I never had 2 legged children, but i lost my husband in 1992 and a major loss of a spouse or a kid takes your breath away and knocks you right off your feet. Everything happens for a reason, and God sent you dobermans to be the bandaids on your heart, its that simple.

    We are here for you should you need us (((Hugs)))
     
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  17. Apollo

    Apollo Novitiate

    Big hugs to you Rotten, you do a great job of being strong and your Hubby is right, it could be worst ;)
    And you know, whenever you need someone to listen to you or you wanna vent, here we are and will lend you a soulder or two and will pick you up, when you are down.
     
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  18. Dobs4ever

    Dobs4ever Hot Topics Subscriber

    I am back to buying outside the box as it fits right in with several of our recent discussions....... True some folks just don't know any better but once it is pointed out to them they should get it and immediately change.

    Some folks insist on forging ahead and throw caution to the wind.

    Some folks just down right lie through their teeth, posting on their website how they believe in the standard, support the standare yet are breeding disqualifying faults......... for gosh sake how much more disqualifying does it get than being banned by your own breed club????

    Once you are given hard facts as to why Z factored and or white is wrong yet insist on pursuing it, it shows either a BIG lack of judgement or a lack of caring about what is right. It always goes to character.

    If you continue to make the same mistake over and over - how much understanding and leway should one be given? At what point should the line be drawn and the BS stop???? Personally I choke on BS. This breed is too important to sit back and watch people intentinally put it in harms way.

    How many lies is too many???? For me it is one. I was taught to stand up and face the music - correct the mistake and move forward in the correct direction. We do or are suppose to learn from mistakes. But if you continue to repeat them then there is a serious problem. It quickly becomes not just a matter or repeating the mistake but of misleading folks by saying you want to do things right as you proceed right along with wrong.

    I will never supp0rt wrong. I will speak out for our Dobermans with my last breath.

    It is one of the biggest reasons I love these dogs - ALWAYS loyal, ALWAYS honest, ALWAYS faithful - true to the end - To those who want to live outside this box PLEASE get out of Dobermans, in fact stay out of purebred dogs period.
     
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  19. TrinityDobes

    TrinityDobes Novitiate

    Today, is another day, if you were blessed to roll out of bed this morning you get another chance to make a new start. Everyday we are faced with choices, some not so important - like what color shirt to wear today because they do not affect anyone but you - and some decisions are very important because they affect other people.

    There is no ONE right way to do things - there are many paths that can be taken, many forks in the road that present you with an important decision in life. These important decisions should not be made in haste hence the saying "Act in haste, Repent in leisure" or if you do things too quickly without doing your due dilligence, research and thinking it through enough, you'll likely have lots of time to regret making a poor decision.

    For those that are thinking of buying a puppy - "do your due dilligence" don't take anyones word for what is on their website, posted in an on line ad or is told to you over the telephone - ask to see supporting documentation of the things they claim, that drew you to the person selling the puppy. Ask for a vet reference, and references from past puppy buyers. Not only their most recent litter of puppy buyers but how about 1 or 2 from their first litter? go visit the breeder and then consider all the information and make an informed decision.

    For those that are breeding dogs today or are thinking of breeding dogs tomorrow - "do your due dilligence" you only get one chance to make a good first impression. No one is perfect, everyone makes mistakes - its how you react and go forward after making those mistakes that will determine your true character - its how you respond to your mistakes that will determine how responsible you are. Character and Responsibilty are the keystone to your reputation.

    Just like there is no ONE RIGHT way to do things, there is no ONE WRONG way to do them either. As a breeder you will have many opportunites to make bad decisions. Continuing to make bad decisions in the face of information provided to help guide you to the make the right choice, defines what type of character you posess.

    We are all defined by what you say and what you do - everyone... buyer and breeder need to act responsbily. Which means when you agree to do something - DO IT. Take responsibiity for your actions; don't make excuses or blame others. Use your head, think before you act; imagine the consequences of your decisions. For every action you make there is going to be a reaction - think about it and be prepared for it. You do not act in a vaccuum.

    Like D4E said, to those who want to operate outside the traditional box of whats considered right and ethical - please make the decision to focus on some other breed and leave my dobermans alone.
     
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  20. Shadowlands

    Shadowlands Novitiate

    Thank you Suzan for posting so elequently what I too was thinking. To err is human, but to continue to repeat the same mistake is a purposeful action.
    I believe in the integrity of this forum and its members. I am surprised that anyone that has no integrity or ethics would even want to be a member here. This forum is pretty clear on its stand against Z-factored breeding and against so-called "BYB"'s (generalized, I know it means something different to everyone) etc. To come here and learn is one thing....to continue down the same path as when you first started is quite another...and an insult to those that have the experience, the love and the integrity to do their absolute best for this breed.
     
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