Questions about the breed

[JustTheDevil]

Teaching things like waiting for permission to eat and insisting on good manners is a great start to this. With my little devil there was ABSOLUTELY no getting up on furniture right from the start. Ground level all the way when she was a youngster. And you can't laugh when they break the rules even if it is hilarious! Like the couple of times when Jazz got the zoomies and bounced onto the bed where she flipped and bounced like a flea, all the while looking right at me knowing she was being naughty! So hard to keep a straight face and quietly remove her with an "off the bed" command! It is really common sense that you have rules, but you have to be really consistent in demanding that they are met. From experience, it helped when I changed my mental outlook from "dog training" to "outsmarting a cheeky toddler" or "dealing with a teenager"!
Above all, keep calm, stay firm and have a lot of fun times with them!

She sounds adorable lol. Thanks, this is helpful.l, and that sounds like a good idea in mindset.

 

[JustTheDevil]

Ragnar sure did/does....ever since he was a pup. There was a little boy down the road who had a little white English Bull dog and he could not control that dog. That dog would pull him all over the place coming at Ragnar yipping and yapping. I had Ragnar on a leash and this made it worse because he felt restrained. I tried to turn it into a training scenario but only made it worse. Ragnar now HATES white yippy dogs. HATES....

Ragnar use to chase our three cats, through continuous cueing and correction, Ragnar now ignores all of them. Now, it’s Freyja’s turn to be corrected continuously.

ANYTHING that runs quickly fires up Ragnars prey drive. The trick of the issue with Ragnar is to always be on alert, one must watch his attention/gaze and be one step ahead of him. I call it, “having your head on a swivel”. I have to catch that stimulus before he sees it, gain his attention- therefore gaining control. As the stimulus comes into his sight, I am ready to talk him down from high jacked up prey drive. Works good if I catch it, if something or someone sneaks up on me- then it can get pretty crazy. For ex. I am at midfield of a soccer game videoing my daughters play for future college stuff. I have surveyed the area many many times and deemed it safe. After couple of minutes, I hear a low growl and Ragnar roars from front of me to behind me. Seems as if some guy thought it was cool to approach us from behind and let his labdoodle meet Ragnar..... from behind us, Really???? I had him on leash and caught him mid lunge. Even though multiple people made the comments of, “what idiot walks up behind a Doberman with a dog?!?!” I was furious and embarrassed that I could not demonstrate full control of Ragnar. I get that Ragnar was protecting his area, his family from a surprise from behind, but still that really worries and concerns me.
These are the specific times that I am reminded that I have a Doberman and not Lassie.

That is an example of a surprise encounter. Otherwise, I often try to desensitize the issue over and over by bringing him close to other dogs but under my control and admission. He has gotten significantly better with this. If I am in control of it, he will not bark, growl or lunge. His breathing may pick up and eyes squint but he is able to be verbally
cued down.

A good place to do this kind of controlled desensitization on your terms is the outside of a doggie park. Most of not all are fenced in right? I would/will walk Ragnar on the “outside” of the dog park fence around the park. As a dog approached, give obedience commands to gain control, have a favorite toy to gain attention, a highly favorable treat...anything to have full fun attention on you while there are dogs running around inside of fence.

Got it, thanks. It's good that Ragar notices so many things in one sense, not good in another sense.
So, with a lot of training and desensitization the animal issue might be okay, correct?
In your opinion, would it be better to start out with an adult or a puppy should this be the correct breed?

 

[Ddski5]

That’s a hell of a question right there.
I will give my opinion when I have some time....

 

[JustTheDevil]

Fair enough, alright, thanks.

 

[Lizbeli]

Just some basic answers from my point of view and experience with my boy.

2. These dogs absolutely excel at dog sports. Nose work is fantastic and something I hope to do with Jasper. I really feel like he will be up to do anything I try with him. With the exception of protection sports- I have no idea how he would do since he was never tested. I know his grandparents are titled but his dam and sire are not worked.

About the “vicious breed” outlook- you will absolutely bump into people who are scared of your dog or even speak out saying how you shouldn’t walk a “dangerous” dog in the area. I have had a man stop in a walking path and ask is Jasper was going to bite him. Jasper was a 4mth old pup. The guy was unreasonably scared. Most recently, I had a contractor come by to check out parts of my house I want to address. Jasper was behind a gate in my living room and barked. The guy said “omg your dog is going to kill me.” He was genuinely scared. I hd to lock Jasper in a room out of site.

But there are always a handful people who will say how beautiful Jasper is, or reminisce about how their family had a Doberman. But more often than not, people will just stay out of your way.

I also find that Jasper does not like to meet new people. He doesn’t like to be pet by strangers so if someone asks to pet him I say “its up to him”. I have to read his body language. Pretty much 90% of the time he is aloof and backs away if they put their hand out. So he isn’t that friendly social greeter that some people like in their dogs. Honestly, sometimes I wish he would open up a bit more but it takes a few visits from friends before he does.

As far as aggression- I am pretty confident he would kill a small animal including cats if he caught one. He has a strong prey drive, but similar with Ragnar- if I catch it early enough I can keep him under control with corrections and verbal commands. He is also not good with other male dogs. I have been noticing this recently. Just a typical same sex aggression that I don’t think is too fixable.

 

[Ddski5]

So, with a lot of training and desensitization the animal issue might be okay, correct?

With training, time put in, consistency and persistence, yes. I prob could have prevented it or alleviated the situation if I was an experience trainer at the time. Through research, reading and asking a shitload of questions on this site, I was able to learn and figure some things out that really helped. My first one, Ragnar is a high strung male that gets easily amped by other dogs/animals. Took him a while to mature and settle down and took me a while to figure out what to train and how. Basically, I just tripled down on obedience training and work obedience in that stimulating environment. He is good with me but my family could not handle him in that kind of situation- which is a lack of my owner/trainer ability. Now Freyja, my 4months old is a different Doberman, she is a sweetheart that is not reactive- at least for now, still have some fear periods to go through.

In your opinion, would it be better to start out with an adult or a puppy should this be the correct breed?

Not such an easy question. It really depends on what you want....

-you don’t have the time or energy to train a pup? You have the money to spend 10k-15k for a fully trained older Doberman. How do you know what you are really getting? Let’s say you spend 12k (I just looked up fully trained Doberman for sale on Google) for a 4yr old trained. You keep him for two years and he dies of cancer or DCM? Yes, there is no guarantee either way but you still out 12k. Those places may have a pro-rated plan on time used and reduction of expense for your next dog through them?? Miss the joys and aggravating issues of puppyhood and adolescents?? Some people would be happy to miss all of that but there are benefits to it.

Having/training a puppy- I am not a certifiable dog trainer. But my thoughts here are: with a Doberman or any kind of controlled attack/aggressive animal, I would think first and foremost there MUST be a trusting bond. I can tell you that I took Ragnar, his first time to ever to see water let alone be on it, on a 3hr kayak trip- it was a small ass one man kayak too. I told him to park his butt at the very front and stay. I was somewhat surprised that he never waivered, stayed there the entire time even through turbulent water. I can also ask him to climb metal bleachers and jump from one set to another. I truthfully think he does not enjoy some of the things I ask him to do...but he does it without question and with confidence in me- because I ask him too. I have been getting up every morning since 8wks old and am the first one my 4month old sees- take her out in the cold to use the bathroom. I don’t want to do it but things like that and feeding her every meal builds that trusting bond. Through the upcoming daily training sessions I do with her, we will build a rock solid trusting bond. I’ve never had a new adult dog so I am not for sure how those bonding issues fair if not experiencing trials and tribulations together.

I am sure there are different answers to different situations for different dogs from different trainers...safe to say that not all Dobermans are the same.

I think having and training your own puppy into that dream Doberman is a lot of hard work and time spent. But in the end, if done right, fair outweighs purchasing one older and already trained.

I don’t find having a Doberman is like purchasing a car to do a job, I find it’s about creating, building and nurturing a companion to meet your needs and expectations- that is if you have the time and capabilities.

Other members feel free to share your opinions on this interesting question.

 

[Ddski5]

Adding that I wish there was a Schutzhund/IPO/IGP training club nearby to me. I really believe this would be easier and laid out if I had a structured plan. Then again between running back and forth from comp and college soccer training/games and then hypothetically adding Schutzhund/IPO/IGP??? my wife would chew my ass to pieces.

 

[JustTheDevil]

Just some basic answers from my point of view and experience with my boy.

2. These dogs absolutely excel at dog sports. Nose work is fantastic and something I hope to do with Jasper. I really feel like he will be up to do anything I try with him. With the exception of protection sports- I have no idea how he would do since he was never tested. I know his grandparents are titled but his dam and sire are not worked.

About the “vicious breed” outlook- you will absolutely bump into people who are scared of your dog or even speak out saying how you shouldn’t walk a “dangerous” dog in the area. I have had a man stop in a walking path and ask is Jasper was going to bite him. Jasper was a 4mth old pup. The guy was unreasonably scared. Most recently, I had a contractor come by to check out parts of my house I want to address. Jasper was behind a gate in my living room and barked. The guy said “omg your dog is going to kill me.” He was genuinely scared. I hd to lock Jasper in a room out of site.

But there are always a handful people who will say how beautiful Jasper is, or reminisce about how their family had a Doberman. But more often than not, people will just stay out of your way.

I also find that Jasper does not like to meet new people. He doesn’t like to be pet by strangers so if someone asks to pet him I say “its up to him”. I have to read his body language. Pretty much 90% of the time he is aloof and backs away if they put their hand out. So he isn’t that friendly social greeter that some people like in their dogs. Honestly, sometimes I wish he would open up a bit more but it takes a few visits from friends before he does.

As far as aggression- I am pretty confident he would kill a small animal including cats if he caught one. He has a strong prey drive, but similar with Ragnar- if I catch it early enough I can keep him under control with corrections and verbal commands. He is also not good with other male dogs. I have been noticing this recently. Just a typical same sex aggression that I don’t think is too fixable.

I've heard that same sex aggression is severe in most male dobermans.
You don't have to answer this, but have you ever been forced to muzzle Jasper in public because people were scared of him?

 

[JustTheDevil]

With training, time put in, consistency and persistence, yes. I prob could have prevented it or alleviated the situation if I was an experience trainer at the time. Through research, reading and asking a shitload of questions on this site, I was able to learn and figure some things out that really helped. My first one, Ragnar is a high strung male that gets easily amped by other dogs/animals. Took him a while to mature and settle down and took me a while to figure out what to train and how. Basically, I just tripled down on obedience training and work obedience in that stimulating environment. He is good with me but my family could not handle him in that kind of situation- which is a lack of my owner/trainer ability. Now Freyja, my 4months old is a different Doberman, she is a sweetheart that is not reactive- at least for now, still have some fear periods to go through.


Not such an easy question. It really depends on what you want....

-you don’t have the time or energy to train a pup? You have the money to spend 10k-15k for a fully trained older Doberman. How do you know what you are really getting? Let’s say you spend 12k (I just looked up fully trained Doberman for sale on Google) for a 4yr old trained. You keep him for two years and he dies of cancer or DCM? Yes, there is no guarantee either way but you still out 12k. Those places may have a pro-rated plan on time used and reduction of expense for your next dog through them?? Miss the joys and aggravating issues of puppyhood and adolescents?? Some people would be happy to miss all of that but there are benefits to it.

Having/training a puppy- I am not a certifiable dog trainer. But my thoughts here are: with a Doberman or any kind of controlled attack/aggressive animal, I would think first and foremost there MUST be a trusting bond. I can tell you that I took Ragnar, his first time to ever to see water let alone be on it, on a 3hr kayak trip- it was a small ass one man kayak too. I told him to park his butt at the very front and stay. I was somewhat surprised that he never waivered, stayed there the entire time even through turbulent water. I can also ask him to climb metal bleachers and jump from one set to another. I truthfully think he does not enjoy some of the things I ask him to do...but he does it without question and with confidence in me- because I ask him too. I have been getting up every morning since 8wks old and am the first one my 4month old sees- take her out in the cold to use the bathroom. I don’t want to do it but things like that and feeding her every meal builds that trusting bond. Through the upcoming daily training sessions I do with her, we will build a rock solid trusting bond. I’ve never had a new adult dog so I am not for sure how those bonding issues fair if not experiencing trials and tribulations together.

I am sure there are different answers to different situations for different dogs from different trainers...safe to say that not all Dobermans are the same.

I think having and training your own puppy into that dream Doberman is a lot of hard work and time spent. But in the end, if done right, fair outweighs purchasing one older and already trained.

I don’t find having a Doberman is like purchasing a car to do a job, I find it’s about creating, building and nurturing a companion to meet your needs and expectations- that is if you have the time and capabilities.

Other members feel free to share your opinions on this interesting question.

Alright, thank you. I really appreciate all of your help.
I see what you mean about building a bond of trust.

 

[Lizbeli]

I've heard that same sex aggression is severe in most male dobermans.
You don't have to answer this, but have you ever been forced to muzzle Jasper in public because people were scared of him?

Nope! There is no law in my state that can force me to muzzle my dog unless he has a bite history reported to the police. Which is a good thing. I should buy a muzzle just to have one. You never known when you’ll need it. But Jasper has a really good temperament thus far, so I haven’t been tempted to spend the money on one. If someone is scared of my dog thats their problem haha! But if they express it to me without being a weirdo I will gladly give them space. In fact, if I am on a tight walking path I am sure to have Jasper on the outside and furthest from other people. Just as a curiosity.

ps- I had a dog that had seizures often. There was a single incident where he came out of a cluster of seizures and went for my boyfriend (who he loved) I had to tie him up and buy a muzzle at a nearby pet store so we could get him to the vet. You just never know!

 

[HappyJoe]

So, long story short I think I want a doberman, but I want to be sure.
I like their spunk, I like their loyalty.

1. I believe they would be a good fit for me because of the velcro nature, also their protective tendencies. I have security issues involving a stalker, I just need to be alerted if something is amis, I don't expect the dog to attack for me.

However, I have some questions.

1. How well would they handle assistance training?
Explanation: I need an ESA, but I am planning on training the dog to assist me throughout the day doing simple tasks.(don't worry, I have no intentions of telling people (s)he's a a service dog or pretending (s)he's one, so don't chew me out.)
Example tasks include: fetching my phone if I'm in a situation where I can't get it, assisting if I'm having a anxiety/panic attack, MAYBE training to use deep pressure to ground me, but definitely staying close by my side,etc.

Note: I am going to consult a professional trainer that has experience with dobermans if I decide that this is the correct breed for me, while I have trained several dogs I've never trained a doberman before and I don't want to screw anything up.

2. How do they do with cross training?
Explanation: My plans were to give the dog some more work if he seems far too bored and such. I was considering scent work, what are your ideas?

I'm not sure, I've been doing research and haven't been turning up many results that are relevant.
One other concern I have is the dangerous breed title. How extensively does this effect perception of this breed?
My brother who lives close by has a dog, and there are a lot of cats in our neighborhood, will the dog be aggressive towards the animals nearby?

Any advice if helpful, I just request you not chew me out. Be honest, but not to the point I'm crying.

Okay I will be honest. A true service dog is evaluated by a professional chosen by their temperament for the task and professionally trained. True, some breeds generally have a talent for certain services because they have been bred for thousands of years to a task (job) that can follow along the lines of a service need. BUT, even then they are weeded out depending on their temperament.

I have had GSDs (6..2 at a time) most of my life, one Rottie and am on my 2nd Doberman. I want a Corgi!
Not an expert but, I will say that if you are looking for help with:
"Example tasks include: fetching my phone if I'm in a situation where I can't get it, assisting if I'm having a anxiety/panic attack, MAYBE training to use deep pressure to ground me, but definitely staying close by my side,etc."

GENERALLY I would say a Doberman be happy to fetch your phone, but would not be a good dog for the service of grounding you and helping with a panic attack. They are bred as working guard dogs and if you are having a panic attack they will turn full on protective and GUARD you from anything and anyone. This includes medical personnel, the police and your mom!
YOU will have to reassure the dog that you are OK. This could unsafe for the dog, support people and you.

The biggest difference I notice between GSDs and Dobermans is discernment. The GSD is in the herding group and the Doberman is in the working group for a reason. The GSD (herders) has been bred to problem solve and has an off switch GENERALLY. They will protect you, but if you need help and will let KNOWN other humans approach GENERALLY.

The Doberman (workers) has been bred to do a job, and that is to be your personal bodyguard. This means it wants to be with you 24/7 and is always looking out for threats (even if you don't see the threat ;-)) and will give their life to protect you.
They don't need to problem solve. If you are anxious and panicking they will read that as you feeling threatened.
Their first instinct will be to PROTECT you, not reassure you GENERALLY.

I say all this as a GENERAL assessment. You cannot pick a puppy out and know they will have the temperament for the service you require.
What I am trying to say is, (and this is just an opinion) find a dog that has been professionally evaluated for what you need. Tell them your breed preferences and they should be able to find an animal that will be a good fit. You will both be happier and safer.
I would like to add that I am using GSD as and example because I know that breed best.

I am very happy with my Joe and he is a very smart, fast learner. I can actually see him deciding he may want to please me sometimes. So funny!
He is starting to see some gray in his black and white world and to control his reactiviness. He does not need protection training unless it is to learn to be called off.
He is going to be an awesome dog. Maybe we can try SAR down the road since he is so nosy.

 

[JustTheDevil]

Okay I will be honest. A true service dog is evaluated by a professional chosen by their temperament for the task and professionally trained. True, some breeds generally have a talent for certain services because they have been bred for thousands of years to a task (job) that can follow along the lines of a service need. BUT, even then they are weeded out depending on their temperament.

I have had GSDs (6..2 at a time) most of my life, one Rottie and am on my 2nd Doberman. I want a Corgi!
Not an expert but, I will say that if you are looking for help with:
"Example tasks include: fetching my phone if I'm in a situation where I can't get it, assisting if I'm having a anxiety/panic attack, MAYBE training to use deep pressure to ground me, but definitely staying close by my side,etc."

GENERALLY I would say a Doberman be happy to fetch your phone, but would not be a good dog for the service of grounding you and helping with a panic attack. They are bred as working guard dogs and if you are having a panic attack they will turn full on protective and GUARD you from anything and anyone. This includes medical personnel, the police and your mom!
YOU will have to reassure the dog that you are OK. This could unsafe for the dog, support people and you.

The biggest difference I notice between GSDs and Dobermans is discernment. The GSD is in the herding group and the Doberman is in the working group for a reason. The GSD (herders) has been bred to problem solve and has an off switch GENERALLY. They will protect you, but if you need help and will let KNOWN other humans approach GENERALLY.

The Doberman (workers) has been bred to do a job, and that is to be your personal bodyguard. This means it wants to be with you 24/7 and is always looking out for threats (even if you don't see the threat ;-)) and will give their life to protect you.
They don't need to problem solve. If you are anxious and panicking they will read that as you feeling threatened.
Their first instinct will be to PROTECT you, not reassure you GENERALLY.

I say all this as a GENERAL assessment. You cannot pick a puppy out and know they will have the temperament for the service you require.
What I am trying to say is, (and this is just an opinion) find a dog that has been professionally evaluated for what you need. Tell them your breed preferences and they should be able to find an animal that will be a good fit. You will both be happier and safer.
I would like to add that I am using GSD as and example because I know that breed best.

I am very happy with my Joe and he is a very smart, fast learner. I can actually see him deciding he may want to please me sometimes. So funny!
He is starting to see some gray in his black and white world and to control his reactiviness. He does not need protection training unless it is to learn to be called off.
He is going to be an awesome dog. Maybe we can try SAR down the road since he is so nosy.

Alright, thanks. Are there some more breeds you know of that might fit my needs a bit better? I'm open to suggestions.

 

[JustTheDevil]

Nope! There is no law in my state that can force me to muzzle my dog unless he has a bite history reported to the police. Which is a good thing. I should buy a muzzle just to have one. You never known when you’ll need it. But Jasper has a really good temperament thus far, so I haven’t been tempted to spend the money on one. If someone is scared of my dog thats their problem haha! But if they express it to me without being a weirdo I will gladly give them space. In fact, if I am on a tight walking path I am sure to have Jasper on the outside and furthest from other people. Just as a curiosity.

ps- I had a dog that had seizures often. There was a single incident where he came out of a cluster of seizures and went for my boyfriend (who he loved) I had to tie him up and buy a muzzle at a nearby pet store so we could get him to the vet. You just never know!

Okay, thank you.
And I'm sorry about the dog with seizures, I hope the vet was able to help him.

 

[HappyJoe]

Alright, thanks. Are there some more breeds you know of that might fit my needs a bit better? I'm open to suggestions.

My understanding is it's the Temperament of the dog not the breed. Here is a link you may have seen already that mentions breeds that tend to have the right temperament. I was surprised to see Pit Bulls mentioned. My friend had a Bouvier des Flanders as an ESD. Dobermans have been used, just need the right temperament. Good Luck!

The Best Emotional Support Dog Breeds

 

[Ddski5]

My understanding is it's the Temperament of the dog not the breed.

Check out this site/breeder
https://www.gallanthearts.org/


I almost went with this breeder because it was hard to find one close to me. I spoke with Becky Floyd extensively and it would most definitely take a special Doberman to work with a blind owner.

You just have to find the right breeder with the right Doberman.

 

[JustTheDevil]

My understanding is it's the Temperament of the dog not the breed. Here is a link you may have seen already that mentions breeds that tend to have the right temperament. I was surprised to see Pit Bulls mentioned. My friend had a Bouvier des Flanders as an ESD. Dobermans have been used, just need the right temperament. Good Luck!

The Best Emotional Support Dog Breeds

Thanks! And no, I hadn't seen his link before.
Thank you.

 

[JustTheDevil]

Check out this site/breeder
https://www.gallanthearts.org/


I almost went with this breeder because it was hard to find one close to me. I spoke with Becky Floyd extensively and it would most definitely take a special Doberman to work with a blind owner.

You just have to find the right breeder with the right Doberman.

Wonderful, thank you

 

[Skb]

Whenever traits of the doberman are described fearless is always listed. I was just wondering what exactly does "fearless" mean? Is it different then confident? What are some day to day examples of a dog being fearless? Is it not being scared or shying away from loud noises and new things or something bigger? To me it seems like more then confident and i just wondered if someone could explain it to me.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Whenever traits of the doberman are described fearless is always listed. I was just wondering what exactly does "fearless" mean? Is it different then confident? What are some day to day examples of a dog being fearless? Is it not being scared or shying away from loud noises and new things or something bigger? To me it seems like more then confident and i just wondered if someone could explain it to me.

You are asking questions right up my alley, and I appreciate it!

I don't want to be a spoil sport, but I laugh at the word "fearless" appearing in any dog's breed standard! Sheesh.

I think it's just romantic thinking to include that word in the standard. Every breed's fanciers like to think they walk on water, or for one reason or the other, want others to think so.

In terms of courage, every dog has its breaking point. Personally, I want a dog that is very close to fearless. I want a top notch guard dog that will protect and not back down if things get heavy with a determined and maniacal human attacker(s) wielding weapons and maybe landing some blows to the dog.

I think that is rare to find.

 

[Skb]

I feel like fearless is something that happens with training. I think of the military dogs or police dogs that will die for their handlers. Does any dog have that without training? Thats not a "natural" trait is it?