Pyometra discussion

[Ravenbird]

Just past her 2nd week of heat cycle when discharge is winding down to a little spotting, I noticed a cream colored discharge yesterday morning about the size of an English pea... and of course had to smell the Kleenex I wiped it with and there was a definite off odor. I researched Pyometra and mostly it stated that this usually occurs 2 - 8 weeks after heat has ended, not within the 21 day cycle. and also since there is discharge it would be an "open" infection, not as dangerous as a closed infection. No fever, no loss of appetite, no other symptoms at all, just an odor & an off color discharge. Not to take any chances, I took her to the vet. He did agree that she had a low grade uterine infection, that caught early like this should respond to antibiotics and be a non-event.

So questions - obviously a spay would eliminate this ever happening again. I did read that if it happens once it is more likely to happen again. I can't seem to find info on just a "low grade" infection which in my vets eyes didn't set off alarms and he gave no lectures or even hinted about needing to spay. He didn't even call it Pyometra, which I guess if the infection is not severe then it isn't. I don't have plans for breeding so spaying really isn't an issue, it's just something I was hoping I'd never have to consider. Any of you gone through this? Low grade infection, not full blown emergency Pyometra?

@Rits one time you mentioned a Pro/Pre biotic that you like to feed, but I can't recall the name. I'd like to use that to counter the antibiotics. I do feed a bit of plain yogurt or Kifer, but the suppliment might be better?

Thoughts, conversation welcome.

 

[Ddski5]

Hmmm..
No experience here but y’all are in my thoughts.

 

[Rits]

@Rits one time you mentioned a Pro/Pre biotic that you like to feed, but I can't recall the name.

Dogzymes Complete 3 Best Sellers in one Product

Full servings of Ultimate, Daily Balance, Phyto Flex-Provides Probiotics, Enzymes, Vitamins, Minerals, Omegas-New Zealand Glucosamine and Chondroitin, MSM, Yucca, Hyaluronic Acid

naturesfarmacy.com

If you don't plan to breed her, I would spay eventually. But hopefully you won't have to for a few more years. I plan to with Ripley once she hits ~6. I just don't want to worry about Pyo at all when she's a senior.

 

[Ravenbird]

If you don't plan to breed her, I would spay eventually. But hopefully you won't have to for a few more years.

Yeah, I always thought I would *eventually*, but I didn't think I'd have to think of it at age 3. I never thought twice about spaying my other two (get 'er done!), but for some reason I've learned to love everything about my girl just the way she is. Plus (probably irrational) fear of spay incontinence.

 

[Ravenbird]

Hmmm, the Dogzymes Complete are out of stock except the 8 lb size! I'll look around at that website though - thank you!

 

[Rits]

Hmmm, the Dogzymes Complete are out of stock except the 8 lb size! I'll look around at that website though - thank you!

Maybe check Amazon. They also have just the pro/prebiotic on its own. Amazon.com

 

[JanS]

I'm glad you caught it so quickly. @obbanner s girl had it several years ago so perhaps he'll chime in too.

 

[Kaiser2016]

caught early like this should respond to antibiotics and be a non-event.

That is great to hear, but not so much that it is likely to reoccur. I guess the timing of the spay will be important too, if it comes to that. I know how pensive you must feel about this because it's not a minor surgery. Fingers crossed that this might be a one off occurrence!

 

[Ravenbird]

I guess the timing of the spay will be important too

That's the thing. I would rather make up my mind and time it properly than to have an emergency spay because of dire conditions.

All that said, I kept Asha quiet as possible today, no play or training, but then sitting on the porch this evening everyone nice and quiet... the javelinas appeared & went running and bouncing across the creek area on the other side of our fence - maybe 100 yards away - Nope, she's not sick.

 

[obbanner]

I'm glad you caught it so quickly. @obbanner s girl had it several years ago so perhaps he'll chime in too.

Anna had pyometra and I was very lucky I caught it in time. Below is a picture of her uterus. It was swollen to the point it was about to burst, as a healthy uterus is the size of a string. Note the vet's hands in the picture to give you an idea how swollen it was.

She was shown for a bumper leg after she earned her title leg for her Companion Dog Excellent title. She got a score of 172. She's a 190 dog and placed the prior weekend. I couldn't understand why she performed so poorly. My wife video'ed our run and I watched the video what must have been a hundred times. I finally realized she was pulling her jumps among other things.

I took her to the vet and I felt a bit foolish. Anna was bouncing around the vet's office like a ping pong ball and I said something's wrong with my dog. He felt her abdomen and immediately diagnosed pyometra. He said he likes dealing with people who work with their dogs because they notice when something is wrong much earlier than others. If I didn't see the video of her in the ring, her uterus would probably have burst before I knew anything was wrong. She had 'closed pyometra' and showed no signs or symptoms.

 

[JanS]

Wow Art, it was indeed a blessing you got her in as quickly as you did. I had no idea it was that huge until you referenced the vets hand.

 

[Kswoodssue]

Personally, my fears about spaying focus on the fact that about 99% of the spays most vets do now are when the pup is very young. Prior to maturity, the uterus, tubes etc are so much smaller and simpler to remove. With maturity, the potential for issues increases. My vet has discussed this with us, but we have not yet spayed. She is almost 16 months old and only had one heat, which was at 10 months. I know rescues spay older dogs all the time, but these are my thoughts and concerns.

 

[EricA]

I researched Pyometra and mostly it stated that this usually occurs 2 - 8 weeks after heat has ended, not within the 21 day cycle. and also since there is discharge it would be an "open" infection, not as dangerous as a closed infection. No fever, no loss of appetite, no other symptoms at all, just an odor & an off color discharge. Not to take any chances, I took her to the vet. He did agree that she had a low grade uterine infection, that caught early like this should respond to antibiotics and be a non-event.

Following this thread to learn more and hope you share some links where you did your reading at.

I got a girl with a low grade UTI right now and being treated. Trying to learn more about Pyometra as well due to her being unaltered.

Vet lady tried giving me the spaying speech not long ago and I dismissed it telling her that none of my previous unaltered female Dobermans ever died of it so -

She seemed surprised and I am not sure what to make of that. ???

Also curious if the testing you had done required a urine sample and if so - How you went about getting one or if you just let the Vet handle that. I have tried and had success collecting and taking in my own samples previously but this time the girl was not cooperating so the Vet had to collect it. Not really happy about that and need to learn better / different collection methods if I can.

 

[Ravenbird]

I got a girl with a low grade UTI right now and being treated.

UTI is Urinary Tract Infection - very different from Uterine infection. Infections in the uterus can only happen if they are intact since a spayed bitch has no uterus, but UTI can happen if they are spayed or not. I'm not sure that spaying would help a dog with UTI's, so I don't know what the spay lecture from your vet was all about.

We didn't have to get a urine sample because my vet said 100% that it was uterus, nothing to do with bladder or urine tract. She had a discharge with odor. If it had come from the uterine track it would have been mixed with urine and not been so noticeable. The vet actually did no tests at all. He palpated her tummy, inspected her vulva and probably observed the odor wafting from it. Seriously, it was worse than anal gland smell, but you had to get close to smell it. Not something that was obvious from standing 3 feet away. I'd taken her temperature at home and it was normal, he took my word for it and didn't even do that. (He knows I worked at a vet clinic 35 years ago). Some of you may cringe at how little was done, but he is a very thorough, quiet man. Even sat in the chair all relaxed as we discussed it all. I even asked specifically if he wanted a urine sample and he said no. Sent me home with antibiotics and within 24 hours there is not a hint of anything wrong.

I have collected urine sample from my dog when she was a puppy and it wasn't too difficult, but for the first 2 months or so that I had her she did her business on the end of a leash, so she was very comfortable with me being close and not bashful at all. I just had a small Dixie cup and as soon as she squatted I quietly bent over and put the cup under the flow. She never moved. But that was in the morning when she HAD to go, and it was at home (I was going to the vet later that morning, put the sample in a glass jar to take with me). I don't think she would have been that co-operative at the vet clinic. I only wanted it checked be cause she was urinating very frequently and drinking lots of water. Sample was negative and symtoms went away on their own.

Intact female dogs build up a lining in their uterus with every heat that goes by and they don't get bred. Nature didn't design their uterus to stay barren. The more the lining builds up, the more likely it is to become great bacterial breeding ground. So the older your girls get, the more likely they are to get Pyometra. Breeding bitches having a litter or two every year are not nearly so likely to see this as companion dogs. The very worst scenario is what @obbanner had to go through. Same infection except the cervix is closed, so you don't see any discharge or smell anything and it builds up to what you see in his pictures. This is an absolute life or death emergency, they will die without surgery. I'm not looking forward to spaying, but I probably will commit to it in the next year or so. I'm grateful I have the time to get rid of the infection and the uterus can be perfectly healthy for surgery. I can't recall which websites I looked at, but I just googled Canine Pyometra and I try to read mostly University articles over individual vet clinics or those chain vet clinic articles.

Wishing your girl with the UTI speedy healing!

 

[EricA]

I have collected urine sample from my dog when she was a puppy and it wasn't too difficult, but for the first 2 months or so that I had her she did her business on the end of a leash, so she was very comfortable with me being close and not bashful at all. I just had a small Dixie cup and as soon as she squatted I quietly bent over and put the cup under the flow. She never moved. But that was in the morning when she HAD to go, and it was at home (I was going to the vet later that morning, put the sample in a glass jar to take with me). I don't think she would have been that co-operative at the vet clinic.

My problem 'collecting' was mostly thanks to Patience peeing in her crate the night before. (dog does not sleep there) Come morning when I wanted to collect my sample she stopped the flow as soon as the cup on a stick came her way.

She pinched it off cause she did not HAVE to go any more.

She was definitely not co-operative at the Vet clinic.