Orijen Puppy Large Breed

Activity's sometimes can work up a poop imo, :rofl: I’ve been training before and all of a sudden duke just disconnects and off to do his business he’d go. More so when he was young he doesn’t need to go as often now but when he was younger oh I could guarantee a walk and then a game of fetch would ALWAYS bring a poop not sure why but it did.

:rofl: Should’ve seen the trainers face, very first session 30mins in. Duke zones out goes poops and comes back ready like nothing happened
 
Sir.duke865 said:
Activity's sometimes can work up a poop imo, :rofl: I’ve been training before and all of a sudden duke just disconnects and off to do his business he’d go. More so when he was young he doesn’t need to go as often now but when he was younger oh I could guarantee a walk and then a game of fetch would ALWAYS bring a poop not sure why but it did.

:rofl: Should’ve seen the trainers face, very first session 30mins in. Duke zones out goes poops and comes back ready like nothing happened
Click to expand...

Haha, my little dude is the same. When we go on our walks he has to do his business about halfway thru or when we play in the living room for awhile he will sometimes just zoom out the door completely IGNORE me and drop a duece outside.
 
Update Day 3: Poops are beginning to be more solid and the cowpie is less frequent. He only pooped 4 times and his last poop was at 5pm. Which is great because he would usually poop at 5pm. 730ish then 930ish. He also is getting full faster. He’s at 50/50 mix and is hand fed trained while he eats. About 3/4 of the way into the meal he doesn’t care to really eat. He also seems happier as well.

However, after transition I may begin to give him fortiflora daily if his poop stays slightly mushy. Hoping for it to return to fully solid though.
 
Antman408 said:
Update Day 3: Poops are beginning to be more solid and the cowpie is less frequent. He only pooped 4 times and his last poop was at 5pm. Which is great because he would usually poop at 5pm. 730ish then 930ish. He also is getting full faster. He’s at 50/50 mix and is hand fed trained while he eats. About 3/4 of the way into the meal he doesn’t care to really eat. He also seems happier as well.

However, after transition I may begin to give him fortiflora daily if his poop stays slightly mushy. Hoping for it to return to fully solid though.
Click to expand...


Fortiflora I would not feed anything made by Purina. Just be aware it does have a very questionable ingredient like Animal Digest.
And besides there are lots of other choices of Pre and Probiotics.


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From 2016
Popular Vet Recommended Supplement Contains Questionable Ingredient
By Susan Thixton
- March 3, 2016
52
Purina’s FortiFlora – a dog and cat probiotic sold by many veterinarians – contains Animal Digest. Purina explains that Animal Digest is a “source of high-quality protein”, but FDA linked...

Popular Vet Recommended Supplement Contains Questionable Ingredient
By Susan Thixton
- March 3, 2016

Purina’s FortiFlora – a dog and cat probiotic sold by many veterinarians – contains the questionable ingredient Animal Digest. Purina explains that Animal Digest is a “source of high-quality protein”, but FDA linked the ingredient to “euthanized animals”.

FortiFlora – a Purina Pet Food veterinary product – is sold and recommended by many veterinarians. The Purina website states FortiFlora “is a probiotic supplement for dogs, proven to promote intestinal and immune health and balance.” The first ingredient of FortiFlora is “animal digest”. The same product – FortiFlora for cats contains the same first ingredient, animal digest.

Purina’s website, under the “Nutrition Myth or Fact” banner advertised on the FortiFlora page, states Animal Digest is a misunderstood ingredient. Purina states Animal Digest is made with “animal protein such as muscle and soft tissue supplied by USDA-inspected facilities.” And “Animal digest is extremely palatable and is an excellent source of high-quality protein.”

A pet food ingredient fact: The legal definition of Animal Digest does not require the ingredient to be sourced from a slaughtered animal. Without this requirement in the legal definition of the pet food/treat/supplement ingredient, Animal Digest can be sourced from animals that have died in the field or a euthanized animal. Without this requirement, Animal Digest can be considered an illegal/adulterated ingredient per federal law and state law (in 14 states). Purina states this ingredient is made from animal protein “supplied by USDA-inspected facilities”, but Purina does not state the ‘animal protein’ itself is USDA-inspected. Rendering facilities that process dead livestock or euthanized animals are “USDA-inspected facilities”. But pet food/pet supplement consumers really need information if the ingredient itself – the animal protein used to make this ingredient – was/is USDA inspected (something that consumers are not told).

Another pet food ingredient fact: In 2002, an FDA investigation found many commonly sold pet foods in the US contained a drug used to euthanize animals; pentobarbital. This FDA report (second page, Appendix) stated “There appear to be associations between rendered or hydrolyzed ingredients and the presence of pentobarbital in dog food. The ingredients Meat and Bone Meal, Beef and Bone Meal, Animal Fat, and Animal Digest are rendered or hydrolyzed from animal sources that could include euthanized animals.”

If your veterinarian sells this product, your vet needs to ask Purina for verification that their (Purina’s) source of Animal Digest is from slaughtered animals (sourced from “USDA-inspected facilities” is not sufficient, the material itself should be sourced from USDA-inspected and approved animal tissues). Without this verification, your vet could be selling an adulterated product that (per the FDA) is associated with euthanized animals.



Wishing you and your pet(s) the best,

Susan Thixton
Pet Food Safety Advocate
Author Buyer Beware, Co-Author Dinner PAWsible
TruthaboutPetFood.com
Association for Truth in Pet Food

What’s in Your Pet’s Food?
Is your dog or cat eating risk ingredients? Chinese imports? Petsumer Report tells the ‘rest of the story’ on over 3000 cat foods, dog foods, and pet treats. 30 Day Satisfaction Guarantee. www.PetsumerReport.com



The 2016 List
Susan’s List of trusted pet foods. Click Here




From 2013
Excuse me, Myth?
By Susan Thixton
- July 1, 2013
17
Purina says that it is a myth that the pet food ingredient Animal Digest is considered substandard. Here's some facts about this pet food ingredient, then you decide if you...

Excuse me, Myth?
By Susan Thixton
- July 1, 2013

Purina says that it is a myth that the pet food ingredient Animal Digest is considered substandard. Here’s some facts about this pet food ingredient, then you decide if you agree with Purina.

The Purina Veterinary Diets website tells pet food consumers it is a “Nutrition Myth” that the pet food ingredient animal digest is a low-quality ingredient. Purina says “this is because the word ‘digest’ is mistakenly thought to describe the contents of the digestive tract.”

Purina continues stating “The Facts” with…
“The word “digest” in “animal digest” refers to the digestive process used in production, not the ingredients. The process starts with animal protein such as muscle and soft tissue supplied by USDA-inspected facilities.”

Excuse me, Myth: Notice the wording in the second sentence above. Key words are “such as”. The process of manufacturing the pet food ingredient animal digest starts with animal protein “such as” muscle meat supplied by USDA-inspected facilities…but (and this is key) it is not ‘limited to’ muscle meat supplied by USDA-inspected facilities. In other words, the ingredients that are cooked down to a slurry (digested) that become the pet food ingredient ‘animal digest’ can be sourced from horrendous sources. In fact, FDA testing determined that the pet food ingredient ‘animal digest’ to be a likely source of pentobarbital – the drug used to euthanize animals. Thus, the pet food ingredient ‘animal digest’ can start with animal protein “such as” euthanized animals – any euthanized animal.

Pardon me, Myth: And the Purina Veterinary website’s attempt to promote the quality of ‘animal digest’ neglected to mention that the source ingredients are not required to be USDA inspected and approved quality. USDA inspected “facilities” is one thing…USDA inspected and approved ‘meats/organ meats’ is another. Just because a meat/organ meat is “supplied by” a USDA inspected facility means little to nothing to the actual quality of the meat/organ meat. They could be rejected for use in human food animal proteins “such as” diseased animals or cancerous tissues or drug residue sites “supplied by” a USDA inspected facility.

Myth? The pet food ingredient animal digest COULD be a quality ingredient IF (and only if) the source ingredients used are USDA inspected and approved. But on the flip side, the pet food ingredient animal digest COULD be a horrible, waste-based ingredient that COULD include the remains of euthanized animals (and the lethal drug used to end their life).
Prove it. Seriously…to any pet food manufacturer that uses rendered ingredients that could be sourced from rejected for use in human food meat/organ meat/animal tissue (or euthanized, or drug laden, or downer, or road kill, or…this could go on forever) – provide pet food consumers with proof your ingredient is sourced from wholesome ingredients. Full disclosure – nothing less.

For a list of pet food companies that have provided their proof – provided their Pledge to Quality and Origin – click here.



Wishing you and your pet(s) the best,

Susan Thixton
TruthaboutPetFood.com
Association for Truth in Pet Food
Pet Food Safety Advocate
Author Buyer Beware, Co-Author Dinner PAWsible

What’s in Your Pet’s Food?
Is your dog or cat eating risk ingredients? Chinese imports? Petsumer Report tells the ‘rest of the story’ on over 2500 cat foods, dog foods, and pet treats. 30 Day Satisfaction Guarantee. www.PetsumerReport.com





2013 List
Susan’s List of trusted pet foods. Click Here





Have you read Buyer Beware? Click Here

Cooking for pets made easy, Dinner PAWsible

Find Healthy Pet Foods in Your Area Click Here
 
Last edited:
More on Ingredients and Animal Digest

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Deal Breaker Pet Food Ingredients – Truth about Pet Food
truthaboutpetfood.com › Pet Food Ingredients
There are certain pet food ingredients that I consider to be deal breakers; ingredients I would never allow my pets to consume in a pet food. Here are those deal breaker ingredients, and why I would not allow my pets to consume them.

Deal Breaker Pet Food Ingredients
By Susan Thixton
- July 7, 2016
66

There are certain pet food ingredients that I consider to be deal breakers; ingredients I would never allow my pets to consume in a pet food. Here are those deal breaker ingredients, and why I would not allow my pets to consume them.

The information below is not provided to sway anyone’s opinion or sway anyone’s pet food purchasing habits. The information below is my personal opinion of certain pet food ingredients based on my experience and knowledge of the pet food industry, knowledge of pet food ingredients, knowledge of pet food law, and knowledge of lack of enforcement of law. Based on my experiences as a pet food consumer advocate, I would not give my own pets a food with one of the following ingredients…(details of each ingredient follow)…

NotforMyPetspic-500x387.jpg
Animal Protein or Animal Fat Ingredients
Animal-Fat-in-Barrels.jpg

Animal Fat in Barrels Source: http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Animal-Fat_50001440773.html
Animal Fat

The legal definition of this ingredient allows it to be sourced from dead, non-slaughtered, diseased, or even euthanized animals. I have read and heard sufficient evidence to believe that it is common practice for dead, non-slaughtered, diseased, and/or even euthanized animals to be included in this common pet food ingredient on a consistent basis.

Because the legal definition of this ingredient allows it to be sourced from dead, non-slaughtered, diseased, or even euthanized animals – it violates U.S. federal food safety law.

While some sources of Animal Fat could be from legal material (healthy slaughtered animals), a pet food consumer is provided with no guarantee to that. I would not give my own pets a food, treat or supplement that included this ingredient.





Animal-Digest.jpg

Animal Digest Source: https://www.proplanveterinarydiets.com/pet-food-myths-and-facts/
Animal Digest

Just like the ingredient Animal Fat, the legal definition of Animal Digest allows it to be sourced from dead, non-slaughtered, diseased, or even euthanized animals.

The legal definition of this ingredient labels it a violation of U.S. federal food safety law.

While some sources of Animal Digest could be from legal material (healthy slaughtered animals), a pet food consumer is provided with no guarantee to that. I would not give my own pets a food, treat or supplement that included this ingredient.









Meat-and-Bone-Meal.jpg

Meat and Bone Meal Source: http://www.bmsbd.com/meat-and-bone-meal-mbm/
Meat and Bone Meal, Beef and Bone Meal

Just like the above ingredients, the legal definition of these ingredients allow them to be sourced from dead, non-slaughtered, diseased, or even euthanized animals.

The legal definition of these ingredients labels them a violation of U.S. federal food safety law.

While some sources of Meat and Bone Meal or Beef and Bone Meal could be from legal material (healthy slaughtered animals), a pet food consumer is provided with no guarantee to that. I would not give my own pets a food, treat or supplement that included this ingredient.









Poultry-By-Products.jpg

Poultry By-Products Source: http://www.wattagnet.com/articles/12666-poultry-processing-condemnations-a-guide-to-identification-and-causes
Chicken by-products, Turkey by-products, Poultry by-products, Chicken by-product meal, Turkey by-product meal, Poultry by-product meal

Just like the previously discussed ingredients, the legal definition of these ingredients allows them to be sourced from dead, non-slaughtered, diseased animals (diseased animal example in image) and it is common for these ingredients to be sourced from ground alive spent laying hens (no longer producing eggs) or day old male chicks – including feathers and feces.

The legal definition of these ingredients labels them a violation of U.S. federal food safety law.

While some sources of these ingredients could be from legal material (healthy slaughtered animals), a pet food consumer is provided with no guarantee to that. I would not give my own pets a food, treat or supplement that included these ingredients.





Lamb-Meal-image.jpg

Meat Meal Source: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/lamb-meat-meal_872532571.html?spm=a2700.7724857.0.0.UB2B8x
Meat Meal, Beef Meal, Lamb Meal, Venison Meal

These ingredients as well are allowed through their legal definition to be sourced from dead, non-slaughtered, diseased animals. While I believe in many cases these ingredients are sourced from USDA inspected and approved animal sources, consumers have no guarantee to that.

The legal definition of these ingredients labels them a violation of U.S. federal food safety law.

While some sources of these ingredients could be from legal material (healthy slaughtered animals), a pet food consumer is provided with no guarantee. I would not give my own pets a food, treat or supplement that included these ingredients.









Additional information to Animal Protein and Fat Ingredients

It is common knowledge within pet food/animal feed that law will not be enforced; the FDA and each State Department of Agriculture makes no secret to their allowance of illegal material into pet food. While authorities allow industry to profit from hideous wastes dumped into pet food/animal feed, the animals consuming those products pay the ultimate price.

Suppliers of the previous animal origin pet food ingredients are obligated to abide by U.S. federal food safety law, however FDA and each State Department of Agriculture openly advises industry law will not be enforced. Consumers have no guarantee if the ingredient is legal – sourced from USDA inspected and approved slaughtered animals, or if the ingredient is illegal – sourced from dead, non-slaughtered, diseased, ground alive, or euthanized animals.

Without a guarantee – a public guarantee the pet food does not contain the even the slightest part of a diseased, non-slaughtered, ground alive or euthanized animal – I would not feed my own pets a food that included any of the previously discussed ingredients. And unfortunately, I’ve never seen any pet food using one of these ingredients make that guarantee.

The certain risk – in my opinion – of ingredients sourced from dead/non-slaughtered, diseased, ground alive, or euthanized animals is endotoxins. Dead animals contain massive amounts of bacteria, when bacteria is killed during cooking of the pet food or cooking of the ingredients endotoxins are produced (from gram-negative bacteria such as Salmonella). High levels of bacteria produces high levels of endotoxins; high levels of endotoxins are deadly. To learn more about the risk of endotoxins, Click Here.



Additional ingredients I would not allow my pets to consume in a food, treat or supplement.
GMGrains.jpg

GM Grains Source: http://www.care2.com/greenliving/tumors-linked-to-genetically-modified-corn.html
GM Grains

I would not give my pets a food that contained genetically modified grains. The certain risk – in my opinion – is glyphosate (testing has confirmed the presence of glyphosate in pet food). Glyphosate in pet food is a cancer risk; a risk I am not willing to take for my own pets. To learn more about glyphosate testing of pet food Click Here.













Sodium-Selenite.jpg

Sodium Selenite Source: http://dir.indiamart.com/impcat/sodium-selenite.html
Sodium Selenite

This ingredient is a commonly used supplement source of selenium; if human error occurred (overdose), this ingredient could kill a pet quickly. Even below maximum dosage (for dogs), this ingredient could (and I’m certain does) cause toxicity issues for dogs and cats alike. (AAFCO has not established a maximum selenium level for cat food.)

If a supplement is used, the safer supplement for dog food is selenium yeast (to my knowledge does not have the toxicity issues as sodium selenite). For cats, there is no safer supplement; FDA has not approved selenium yeast for cat food – very unfortunate. FDA has told me they are waiting for pet food manufacturers to provide safety information to the agency to determine approval of selenium yeast for cats. For cat food, I would look for a product that contained no selenium supplement (no sodium selenite); food ingredients in the pet food can easily provide the necessary selenium to the diet (the same holds true for dog food too).

Food sources that provide selenium are tuna, pork, clams, brown rice, seeds, broccoli, cabbage, spinach and many more foods. A small amount of any of these foods would meet the selenium requirement in pet foods; no supplementation is needed. I would not give my own pets a food, treat or supplement that contained sodium selenite. To learn more about selenium toxicity, Click Here.

Copper-Sulfate.jpg

Copper Sulfate Source: http://dir.indiamart.com/delhi/copper-sulphate.html
Copper Sulfate

In 2015 I learned of a veterinarian whose own dog died linked to this pet food supplement. I have spoken with this vet numerous times and learned that this extremely common pet food supplement has been documented as the probable source of copper storage disease in more than 100 dogs (by a Cornell University veterinarian). The original approval of this pet food ingredient was based on a study for pigs (not cats and dogs). This ingredient is an inexpensive feed grade ingredient I would never give to my own pets. To learn more about Copper Sulfate Click Here.













Caramel-color.jpg

Caramel Color
Source: http://www.aarkayfoods.in/caramel-colours.html
Dyes or Caramel Color

Dyes or Caramel Color in pet food does absolutely nothing to benefit a cat or dog, and they come with risks. Caramel Color contains a known carcinogen; other dyes come with certain risks as well. Again, these are risks that I am not willing to take for my own pets. To learn more about Dyes Click Here, to learn more about Caramel Color Click Here.













Carrageenan.jpg

Carrrageenan
Source: http://www.aliexpress.com/cheap/cheap-carrageenan.html
Carrageenan

The ingredient Carrageenan is used in moist pet foods as a thickener. Multiple studies have linked this ingredient with gastrointestinal disease; “prolonged inflammation is a precursor to more serious diseases, including cancer.” I would not provide my own pets a food that contains the ingredient Carrageenan. To learn more about the pet food ingredient Carrageenan Click Here.













Feed Grade Ingredients

This deal breaker is a little more difficult to explain than the above ingredients. Pet food comes in two different categories; food grade and feed grade (but they are all called pet ‘food’). Food grade is human edible meat and vegetable/fruit ingredients, human grade supplements, and manufactured in a human food facility. Feed grade is all others; pet foods that contain human grade ingredients and pet foods that contain illegal ingredients, pet foods that use human grade supplements and pet foods that use animal supplements such as copper sulfate (mentioned previously in this document).

About the only thing that is certain about a feed grade pet food is that they are not manufactured in a human food facility. It is unfair and frustrating for consumers to not be informed on the pet food label to the quality of ingredients used in the pet food (especially considering what FDA allows) – but existing regulations do not allow a pet food to tell consumers the quality of ingredients. The only thing a consumer can do is talk or email with the company and ask them. Ask if all ingredients are USDA inspected and approved for human consumption. The best we have at this point is to ask and trust our guts to the honesty of the company.

Multiple Pea Ingredients

Multiple pea ingredients are linked to gastrointestinal issues with cats and dogs. I would not give my own pets a food that contained multiple pea ingredients; not worth the health risks. To read more about peas Click Here.

Pet Foods manufactured in Thailand

Thailand has a very concerning recent history using slave labor. With so much unknown, I would not give my own pets a food manufactured in Thailand. To learn more about slave labor in Thailand Click Here.

Ingredients sourced from China

I would not give my own pets a food that contained ingredients from China. Recent history has shown there are concerning quality control issues with foods or ingredients sourced from China. This is not to say that everything sourced from China has quality control issues; my concern is pet food related products.





And…if you want a List of pet foods that contain these ingredients, the brand names of pet foods that I would never give to my own pets…I have put together a new List. A List of Pet Foods that I would never give my own pets, and why. This document is a fund raiser for TruthaboutPetFood.com (AAFCO meeting coming soon) and is free for members of our pet food consumer association. Click Here to learn more.



Wishing you and your pet(s) the best,

Susan Thixton
Pet Food Safety Advocate
Author Buyer Beware, Co-Author Dinner PAWsible
TruthaboutPetFood.com
Association for Truth in Pet Food

What’s in Your Pet’s Food?
Is your dog or cat eating risk ingredients? Chinese imports? Petsumer Report tells the ‘rest of the story’ on over 4,000 cat foods, dog foods, and pet treats. 30 Day Satisfaction Guarantee. www.PetsumerReport.com



The 2016 List
Susan’s List of trusted pet foods. Click Here





NotforMyPetsimagesmall.png




The Other List
The List of pet foods I would not give my own pets. Click Here



Have you read Buyer Beware? Click Here

Cooking for pets made easy, Dinner PAWsible

Find Healthy Pet Foods in Your Area Click Here
 
Kaiser2016 said:
We are testing out this one (I hope @strykerdobe approves :fingersx: lol):

Flora4 Ground Sprouted Seeds Food Topper - Carna4

Our pet store has a nutritionist and she had the same objection to Fortiflora.
Click to expand...

Hahaha :thumbsup2::thumbsup2: Yes I approve! I've spoken to the owner from Carna4 numerous times at the big pet shows. If you going to feed seeds make sure they are sprouted. These have the most nutrients. Since they need them to start growing.

I do like their foods. Very short ingredient list and synthetic free !!!!!!!!!!
 
Update for day 4: Poops are 4 times a day now, down from 7. Poops occur at 5:15. 7ish. Noonish then after dinner at 5. They are still soft/cowpie. But seem to be slightly improving. He has gained weight, he weighed 20 pounds last Tuesday and now he’s 30 pounds today.

However I realized I messed up with portions when I made the meals for the week. Totw is 4 cups a day and orijen is 2 1/3 cup a day. He’s currently getting 2 cups totw and 2 cups orijen a day right now. Which I believe may be contributing to his soft poop since I’m feeding him double than I should. Which I realized this morning.

However due to him being underweight I’m just going to ride out the feeding today and tomorrow with the premade bags with double the food and once feeding 100% orijen give him the 2 1/3 cup a day.
 
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