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Oleg and Lana Pilipovski at www.eurodoby.com
- Thread starter Tina
- Start date
DreamValley
Well-Known Member
Take a quick look at the their June litter.
The sire is a good looking dog. He has enough titles from the local shows and some health testing to be bred... but he is not "the best Euro dog" . He was entered in IDC Champion class but was not successful to be one of the top runners.
Males > Famous Fidel di Perlanera > Main
The dam doesn't have titles or health testing. She was sold to eurodoby young and I assume pregnant after mating with Fidel in Europe. Eurodoby sold puppies for $3000 - $3500. Now they are selling Arabella. Geezzz... poor dog! I hope she will go to a good home and not to kennel where she will be bred non-stop.... my heart sinks
For sale > Arabella di Caresi > Main
I am sure Tina your boy will be handsome and smart and great family companion.
Thanks for your warning about Eurodoby. That's a red flag not to buy from them...
The sire is a good looking dog. He has enough titles from the local shows and some health testing to be bred... but he is not "the best Euro dog" . He was entered in IDC Champion class but was not successful to be one of the top runners.
Males > Famous Fidel di Perlanera > Main
The dam doesn't have titles or health testing. She was sold to eurodoby young and I assume pregnant after mating with Fidel in Europe. Eurodoby sold puppies for $3000 - $3500. Now they are selling Arabella. Geezzz... poor dog! I hope she will go to a good home and not to kennel where she will be bred non-stop.... my heart sinks
For sale > Arabella di Caresi > Main
I am sure Tina your boy will be handsome and smart and great family companion.
Thanks for your warning about Eurodoby. That's a red flag not to buy from them...
Marinegeekswife
Hot Topics Subscriber
No point in blaming the OP either. What's done is done. Remember, via the Internet we're only getting a partial story from anyone.
Good question. I will never understand it. No offense, but I don't even understand why they would want to breed in the first place. That is something I will gladly leave up to the pros. I just buy a pup and let him/her take me on a journey. For me every dog is a new place, and always a good one.
kaloric
Well-Known Member
If you can explain how to tell someone who talks a bunch but doesn't know what they're talking about, from someone who speaks knowledgeably about their dogs because they know what they're doing, and do so in terms that don't require reasonably advanced knowledge that can take months or years to acquire, then you can say they have no excuse from buying from someone. Folks' attention spans are generally short too, so the explanation has to be concise.
You've pointed-out a few things from this breeder's website that you see as red flags, but much of it is subtle. I could see how someone with a particular price range and aspiration for "good bloodline" could look at your website, look at eurodoby.com, and miss the more subtle warning signs & think both you and the Pilipovskis are similar. I mean, you both talk about health testing buzzwords (even though the specifics are different), you both talk about nice-sounding bloodline things, and you both have dazzling photos with awards poses. Someone who doesn't ask exactly the right questions or catch the nuance is going to struggle to make a good decision, because price does not influence quality, only vice versa (and not always).
It doesn't come down to control-freakishness, either. Anyone can talk about how they screen prospective buyers, but it doesn't mean a whole lot. If someone wants breeding stock to keep their future options open, but you refuse to sell to them on that reason alone, congratulations, they're just going to go elsewhere, and you then have no influence to steer them in a sensible direction even though you'd also avoid facilitating bad behavior. It's still hard to blame someone for refusing to take part in a situation that feels like it's going in the wrong direction in the first place, but the small cost is likely going to be that they might wind-up doing even more damage due to a complete lack of guidance. I believe that's what's called a no-win situation.
Also, it's hard to tell until you've been burned, that you've been burned. How do you know someone is not giving you the full truth until you catch them in a story that just doesn't add-up or that changes depending on circumstances, unless their story is just unbelievable from the start? You really can't, especially if what they say is mostly plausible, or they're just too incompetent to know they don't know what they're doing, and since they don't understand that, it makes them that much more confident. The Dunning-Kruger Effect is scary territory. In light of the developments, I wonder if that may be what's happening with this breeder.
That's what this comes down to, hopefully the beautiful dogs involved stay healthy enough, maybe you should make a short breeder questionnaire and explain a range of acceptable answers to help folks who are trying their best to screen their breeders better. It's not very helpful to point out the warning signs after they've already committed.
Ataro
Notable member
I agree with what you're saying, kaloric - although when I first looked at the website I thought it screamed BYB. Why (apart from the fact that I'm kind of anal with my requirements)? Well, these three points came across very clearly:
- They keep touting Bismarck as being no. 1 stud in the US. I tried very hard to find any sort of information or pictures to confirm this, but it just doesnot exist. In fact, information at all about this dog on anywhere apart from their site is almost completely non-existent. The only thing I found was the dog for sale as an older pup on Dobermann Review.
- I scrolled down and saw the Paypal option. Paypal is a pretty sure sign.
- I saw the photos on Facebook of Lana drowning herself unashamedly in bling or dressing like a.. *ahem* while posing with dogs... I find it difficult to take someone like that seriously.
Exhibit A:
- They keep touting Bismarck as being no. 1 stud in the US. I tried very hard to find any sort of information or pictures to confirm this, but it just doesnot exist. In fact, information at all about this dog on anywhere apart from their site is almost completely non-existent. The only thing I found was the dog for sale as an older pup on Dobermann Review.
- I scrolled down and saw the Paypal option. Paypal is a pretty sure sign.
- I saw the photos on Facebook of Lana drowning herself unashamedly in bling or dressing like a.. *ahem* while posing with dogs... I find it difficult to take someone like that seriously.
Exhibit A:
fehnder
Hot Topics Subscriber
Perhaps a thread warning others of danger signs is a good idea. Researching their dogs on other websites and not taking information on their own website for granted is a must. Put on helpful links to help those seeking a reputable breeder such as dobermann review and dobequest and give a list of things to ask about and examples of good and bad answers. That's how people can surely learn from this thread.
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
You can't steer someone who does not want to be steered. You give the reasons you won't place a dog just for breeding rights and they pretty much say "screw you" and go find someone who will seel them that so they basically don't want to listen to reason even when you try and believe me I do try to educated at every opportuntity. They could have guidance on how to start correctly and what needs to be done but you can't make them follow it especially when they can find it on the web and pay a hefty price for it too boot.
I would want someone to prove what made their dog the # 1 stud when there are so many out there. Exactly what publication is it stated that he accomplished what to make him #1 - often times #1 simply means he has been bred to any and everything. #1 stud dog is the dog that sires the most litters.
But you are correct JQP is so ill informed on the purebred dog world that they are blinded by a slick sales pitch. Not to mention that they evidently were alerted because they were asked no questions Evidently they were honest and told them about their intentions to breed as now the breeder is claiming that their bitch is unfit. Who would have ever guessed AND AND AND
I did do a post on things to look for in a good breeder - questions to ask what to look for. Not sure I can find it but I know someone can. It might be in the "If you decide to breed or buy outside the box thread
kaloric
Well-Known Member
And in front of PetSmart no less.
Not to disrespect PetSmart, I think they're a good pet supply store, but I don't think that would be my first (or second, or third...) choice of backdrop. I wonder if Banfield does ear cropping. 
With that much effort put into advertising and trying to sell their pups, I'd say they appear more to be inept kennel operators, but they seem to be well beyond the amateur/hobby level of a BYB where you could dismiss some of the bungling as just coming with the territory. There's got to be a better term for the people who are trying to run a kennel, a profitable breeding business, but they simply aren't doing it very well. I think that makes it a bit worse.
You're spot on about the website. And you are paying more attention to detail and looking things up, most prospective buyers are just going to take the claims at face value without demanding proof. I think Paypal is maybe not a bad option for sending money to someone you aren't going to meet in person, but I could swear they had a prohibition on using their service for animal purchases. Regardless, Paypal would be slightly more classy than having a web shopping cart you can add your new puppy to and then go to checkout!
However, I have yet to see a breeder website that isn't a disaster with a jumble of information presented in a wall of text that makes it hard to get to the key, relevant information. You know, sort of like most of my posts!
One of the best websites I've seen so far was by that kennel that was being questioned by folks on this forum a few weeks ago because they actually had too much relevant information, such as detailed info on all their litters & extensive profiles on their breeding stock that showed clearly that one of the younger bitches was being bred on nearly every heat. I thought that site was actually reasonably good in its composition, but it still had a bit much clutter and fluff for my tastes. Still, you could get the basics at a glance, and if you wanted to dig deeper, there was a lot more detailed information to be had. It was a passable example of an "elevator pitch" website.D4E, I'll look for your post later, when I get home. A "What to consider when finding a breeder..." thread would make a good FAQ/Sticky. Just sayin'
kaloric
Well-Known Member
Well, I think at some level they really aren't out to deliberately mislead people, they likely were bamboozled themselves in many cases by buzzwords like 'Euro" and just repeat them over and over. A con would be getting caught making the same inaccurate statements even after being confronted with them, business as usual, but probably with a different business name. Looks to me like Lana does, at some level, realize now that she hosed people and Arabella wasn't as perfect as she thought, and while she didn't want to take a huge financial hit by taking care of customers who realized something was wrong, she's selling off her bitch because now she knows one of her selling points was bogus. That's just my take based on what's been said.
There's a classic example of a breeder trying to use either sex appeal or the other ones using kids in their ads to try to draw people in. Ugh...
DreamValley
Well-Known Member
They sell her for $4,500. I doubt many pet owners will pay the price. Likely she will be sold to greeders...
Sad.
Trust me when I say there's no sex appeal in that photo
