How to correct a nippy bitey puppy and establish a pack heiarchy in your home.

[PCarter]

Pitts - thanks for sharing this info. I nearly fall out of my chair when I read those post that say "MY puppy is aggressive - I need help" People buy a dog that is a dominant breed and then expect it to behave like a lab. I call them labs in dobe suits. This is incorrect temperament. I try to explain that it is a BABY not a dangerous dog. A BABY that has to learn the rules and who is top dog. I hope all new puppy owners read your post 10 times. Gosh I would worry if my puppies did not growl and nip at this age.

I have had 7 Dobermans in my life, and this is the first for me in this type of behavior.
I also have a Golden Retriever in my home. The puppy is biting him bad!!! He has marks on his neck that is requiring antibiotics. This puppy is 4 months old.

I have used the method of grabbing by the scruff and using the word NO firmly, and he keeps coming at me.
This is not just biting. He runs at me not growling but barking at snapping at me. He does connect with some of the bites. What he is doing is demanding my attention when my golden gets his bone, or takes the ball outside, or he wants up in my chair with me, or he wants me to figure out what he wants, and when I don't figure it out quick enough he starts charging me barking and lunging with snapping jaws. And just yesterday he decided to go potty in my van when I was driving and couldn't stop to attend to his barking as he wanted. He also repeated this act last night again on his dog pillow when he wanted something that I didn't give him my attention on. This puppy has a dog door and knows how to use it. He has been house trained since the first week of owning him. Before I gave him the dog door to use; he went to the back door and wimpered.

Nobody can give this little guy a hug, or a good petting without his teeth. When company comes over we put on his leash to keep him from biting them.

No matter how many time I grab him by the scruff, he keeps coming at me.

I would take any suggestions.

 

[Marinegeekswife]

You are trying to intimidate not explain pack structure to him and with a confident puppy that won't work. It is about your attitude and presence not how rough you can be. Rough housing encourages biting and rough play. When he gets bitey and demanding stand up and turn away from him. Manhandling is giving him what he wants, attention and touch. It sounds like it is also time to start implementing NILIF (Nothing in life is free). Make him work for everything he gets toys, food, touch, eye contact, everything. Have you done any obedience training with him? It is obvious that he sees you as a toy and not a leader.

 

[llstgaudens]

I answered a post on another forum that was from a guy with a doberman puppy that was exhibiting dominate bitey nipping behavior and I thought Id share it here as well as it might could help some out there with the same issues.
I hope this helps......

You have to start out understanding that dobermans are first and foremost a protection breed, and they wont be a soft mouthed dog like a lab is. Therefore their biting and nipping can really cause pain and damage. Redirecting is good to help to teach the dog self confidence and allow them to play and tug with you. But with a pup like this you have to teach it its place in the heiarchy, You see pups learn from their mom how to pick their place in the pack and to respect the mom as the pack leader, this is done with the mouth as this is pretty much all they have to work with, when pups are young the mom will begin to growl or warn the pups away when they come near her food, this is how an alpha presents itself to the pack as leader and how the mom tells the pups she is the leader, she even sometimes nips the pups to get her message across, this teaches them to respect her and again their place under her in the pack. now the pups will also do this to each other, nipping and biting during play, this establishes their rank in the pack as the stronger higher ranking members bite and fight harder than the lower ranking members.

Therefore you have to realize that when a pup comes into your home this is all it knows and it will apply this behavior to you and its new human family, and this is why they will bite and nip you, grab your pants legs and pull, etc. this is how they play and how they test their rank in the new pack. You will hear them bark and growl when they do this, just like they would with their littermates.

Now that being said, the pup will accept you as the pack leader once you correct this biting behavior. this puts you as the leader and then shows the pup where its place in the pack is.
Now you need to remember that as the pup grows he will continually test his place and when this is done you have to correct him and put him in his place, this can be easily done by, when he bites or nips, you quickly give a NO correction simply grab the pup by the scruff of the neck or sides of the cheeks and firmly say NO, do this everytime he tries this and he will learn you are the leader and what you say goes. Now dont shake the dog or slam it to the ground or alpha roll it or any of this silly stuff, that can hurt your pup physically and mentally, just firmly grasp the neck and cheek scruff and say NO, this is like the mom grabbing em by the neck and growling, and it will get your point across.

I will give a few examples of pack behavior for you to look for, this might help especially since you have another dog in the house.

1- When a dog jumps up and/or humps your leg, that’s a pack behavior.
2- When a dog charges past you to get out the door, that’s a pack behavior. Pack leader go through doors and gates first.
3- When a dog barks like crazy at another dog that’s a pack behavior.
4- When a dog drags his owner down the street on a walk, that’s pack behavior. Pack leaders always go first.
5- When a dog tries to fight with another dog, that’s a pack behavior. Pack leaders say when and who to fight.
6- When a dog growls for moving it aside when you get in your bed or on your furniture. That’s pack behavior and needs to be dealt with.
7- When a dog growls at you for disturbing it as you walk by as it sleeps that’s a problem with rank behavior in the pack.


Hope this helps.

I answered a post on another forum that was from a guy with a doberman puppy that was exhibiting dominate bitey nipping behavior and I thought Id share it here as well as it might could help some out there with the same issues.
I hope this helps......

You have to start out understanding that dobermans are first and foremost a protection breed, and they wont be a soft mouthed dog like a lab is. Therefore their biting and nipping can really cause pain and damage. Redirecting is good to help to teach the dog self confidence and allow them to play and tug with you. But with a pup like this you have to teach it its place in the heiarchy, You see pups learn from their mom how to pick their place in the pack and to respect the mom as the pack leader, this is done with the mouth as this is pretty much all they have to work with, when pups are young the mom will begin to growl or warn the pups away when they come near her food, this is how an alpha presents itself to the pack as leader and how the mom tells the pups she is the leader, she even sometimes nips the pups to get her message across, this teaches them to respect her and again their place under her in the pack. now the pups will also do this to each other, nipping and biting during play, this establishes their rank in the pack as the stronger higher ranking members bite and fight harder than the lower ranking members.

Therefore you have to realize that when a pup comes into your home this is all it knows and it will apply this behavior to you and its new human family, and this is why they will bite and nip you, grab your pants legs and pull, etc. this is how they play and how they test their rank in the new pack. You will hear them bark and growl when they do this, just like they would with their littermates.

Now that being said, the pup will accept you as the pack leader once you correct this biting behavior. this puts you as the leader and then shows the pup where its place in the pack is.
Now you need to remember that as the pup grows he will continually test his place and when this is done you have to correct him and put him in his place, this can be easily done by, when he bites or nips, you quickly give a NO correction simply grab the pup by the scruff of the neck or sides of the cheeks and firmly say NO, do this everytime he tries this and he will learn you are the leader and what you say goes. Now dont shake the dog or slam it to the ground or alpha roll it or any of this silly stuff, that can hurt your pup physically and mentally, just firmly grasp the neck and cheek scruff and say NO, this is like the mom grabbing em by the neck and growling, and it will get your point across.

I will give a few examples of pack behavior for you to look for, this might help especially since you have another dog in the house.

1- When a dog jumps up and/or humps your leg, that’s a pack behavior.
2- When a dog charges past you to get out the door, that’s a pack behavior. Pack leader go through doors and gates first.
3- When a dog barks like crazy at another dog that’s a pack behavior.
4- When a dog drags his owner down the street on a walk, that’s pack behavior. Pack leaders always go first.
5- When a dog tries to fight with another dog, that’s a pack behavior. Pack leaders say when and who to fight.
6- When a dog growls for moving it aside when you get in your bed or on your furniture. That’s pack behavior and needs to be dealt with.
7- When a dog growls at you for disturbing it as you walk by as it sleeps that’s a problem with rank behavior in the pack.


Hope this helps.

 

[llstgaudens]

This is exactly what I have been searching for.... she is now weeks old and I am covered in love bites and she barks and barks at the other dogs...and that.. bottom lip bite thing... just made things worse.. thank you.. please note... I also add the "look"... and it is ... over and over and over again.... lol

 

[Dobs4ever]

If he keeps coming at you then you did not follow through. Hold him til he settles down and stops fighting. Then say OK calm down and let him go. If you respond t his barking ( you said if I dont' figure out fast enough) then he is training you to meet his needs instead of him learning the rules and guidelines needed to be happy. He is showing signs of frustration and you are not responding correctly.

If he barked in the van to warn you he needed to go and you did not stop then remember he is a baby and they can't hold it and NO at 4 months he is not potty trained. You are expecting too much too soon.

Meet him squarely on and show no fear. You can redirect him - put a leash on him and make him sit or as he gets to you side step causing him to miss and turn immediately into to him and back him up. I am not comfortable with turning away from him. In a dominant breed this is a sign of weakness and in a strong willed dog it will accelerate the issue rather than resolve it.

Is he crate trained??? I certainly hope so as it resolves a lot of the problems. The dog learns potty times easier, gives you a break, and teaches the puppy that he does not get 100% attetion. 100% attention creates a co-dependent dog who is not secure if you leave.

You need to enroll in classes now.

 

[Wilderness medic]

One thing I enjoy is playing with a dog that play bites. Not really a bite but more of an opn mouth dragging the teeth. Is there a way to teach it that without causing harm? Or is that bad no matter what?

 

[Gelcoater]

One thing I enjoy is playing with a dog that play bites. Not really a bite but more of an opn mouth dragging the teeth. Is there a way to teach it that without causing harm? Or is that bad no matter what?

I have no idea?
I know we trained our female from 10 weeks on to never put her mouth on people.She's a pet,not involved with bite sports.If she were I probably would have approached it differently.We have kids and kids that visit often.Dont want to deal with potential issues.
Now our new guy Rocky will play with mild mouthing of my hand,he's less than 2 years old.
First time he did it my female jumped up and gave that "you do that again Ill rip you apart" posture.The concept of mouth play was so foreign to her.She made not one noise,but postured at him like I had not seen before.

 

[Jack's Mom]

OK - I'm going to buck the norm here. I've never grabbed my current girl by the scruff of her neck. Nor, have I every grab any of my past 5 dobermans by the scruff of the neck. All of them are high drive and could bite like the dickens as puppies. If you have a high prey drive puppy, they will what I call the "zoomies" when they are tired. They run around biting onto everybody in sight. It's time for the exercise pen or the crate where they will fall asleep. If they are playing and prefer to bite you instead of the toy (assuming they don't have the zoomies and you're just more interesting) there is always the option of bitter apple. Just a little bit sprayed in their mouth does wonders. If they're latching onto you pant leg, just stop and stand still (wear your old throw away jeans). They will tug and quit. Redirect them to an appropriate toy. They mostly just outgrow it at around 5 to 6 months. Also, most of what has been learned about pack structure has come from studying wolves, and the alpha wolf structure was been debunked. For more on that read - http://io9.com/why-everything-you-know-about-wolf-packs-is-wrong-502754629

 

[Jack's Mom]

Thanks for all of your replies. That is pretty much what I do. I am just as persistent about it as she is. I will usually end up redirecting her, and win out.

There is an update to this situation tho. When she has gets on one of her tantrums where she is just trying to bite me. She will ignore her toys and everything, and just come at me. I have been grabbing her by the scruff, telling her no, and she will eventually get the point. Over the past two days when she has done this and I start to grab her, instead of acting submissive and whining like usual, it seems like it is pissing her off. I kept grabbing her over and over, because she kept coming at me, and finally she jumped back, lowered her head, and gave me a mean growl. It didnt seem like she was playing anymore, it seemed different. Is this normal? what should I do?

No this is not normal. She is going into defense because she is smart and she knows that you are going to grab her by the neck which she doesn't like and it hurts. Mother dogs don't latch onto the scruff of their puppies necks to show them they are in charge. Grabbing onto her is escalating the situation. Simply put her in her crate or ex pen when she does it. Or, carry bitter apple around with you and tell her no bite and spray it in her mouth. Most of the time, after a couple of squirts of bitter apple, they just have to see the bottle and they'll quit. From what I've read so far, you have the potential for a great working dog. Find a toy that she loves to play tug with and keep it with you. Channel her focus onto the toy. Only let her play with it with you.

 

[Dobs4ever]

One thing I enjoy is playing with a dog that play bites. Not really a bite but more of an opn mouth dragging the teeth. Is there a way to teach it that without causing harm? Or is that bad no matter what?

The best way to relieve their need to bite and still protect yourself is to teach that biting is for the tuggy toy- NOT people. AS we understand it we try to relate it to the alpha wolf but I am not convinced. I am focusing more on the 3 C's - calm, confident and consistent. It is more an attitude than a pack position. Leadership is not really as much about the correction as they positive constructive guidance.

It is not about grabbing her - it is about the correct actions that work. The problem is you don't know how to get close to her without making your body parts a target. Stand up straight and tall, Put a leash on her that you can grab and make her sit. She has to stay STAY sitting until she calms down then simple drop the leash and walk away. I think you are reading WAY too much human emotions into the situation. Puppies do not have tantrums and they do not get ticked off. I strongly recommend that you get professional help - enroll in a training class and learn so you can help her.

Give her structure - Study "Nothing in life is free" training it will help you too. You are creating the problem NOT the puppy.

 

[Katopup]

I really wish the stereotype that Dobermans being a dominate breed is why they mouth, they mouth either because they're teething or not trained, ALL dogs mouth not just "dominate" breeds.
This stereotype is why this breed is still looked at as vicious by many when they are far from it when trained properly.
I have been around many more vicious little dogs than ANY large breed so called vicious dog.
Many small breed owners allow their dogs to get away with bad behaviour due to being small and cute, where most responsible large breed owners train from these so called stereotypes and have some of the most well manored dogs.
The smallest breed dog in our puppy class was the mouthiest, most hyper and most difficult to control dog in the group, guess which ones were the the best behaved, our doberman, the german sheppherd, the great dane and the pitbull!
So Please stop enabling a bad stereotype on this or any other large breed and educate training!

 

[Dobs4ever]

But for dominate breeds if not handled correctly it becomes a big problem and dominate breeds are far more persistent at it. Yes teething is part of the problem but they also have a stronger desire than many breeds to bite something. Being dominate is not a sterotype it is a fact. The sterotype came for their early beginning when they were very sharp and aggressive sometimes even to their own handlers.

Of course they are better in class - they get more training they the little ankle biters - and the working breeds are bred to be more trainable than the small terrier breeds. It had to be part of their breeding or no one could safely handle them. What enables the bad stereotype is a combination of their past history, myths about dominate breeds, and people who are not responsible.

We can't hide from the fact this breed was bred to protect - they are not labradors or golden retrievers.

 

[twinlions]

Wow, just by reading this I learned allot. Thank you very much for all this helpful information. I was thinking my puppy is just playing ruff with me and I was allowing the biting on my hands and neck. But I am glad I read this and thank you for your info.

 

[Gretchen_Red]

Just remember any behavior you don't want as an adult don't encourage when they're puppies!

Also boned bones and more bones these puppies are teething until at least 8 months do make sure you always have a bone around! Plus a brand new bone is great for redirecting so are toys

 

[twinlions]

The vet told me no bones because they might break pieces off and it will get stuck in the stomach? So what type of bone should I give for the pup to chew on? I always knew that dogs like bones but when the vet said that just couple of days ago he did operation on a dog to take out all the bone pieces out, and that scared me. So now I don't know rather to give bones or not?


Spartak&Mari&Christina and Kleio

 

[Oh Little Oji]

I think we may have confusion over natural animal bones vs. the many manmade "bones" available.

We've all heard that chicken bones are dangerous to dogs, right? I believe it. Too bad the culture among some where I live is to eat fried chicken and throw the bones on the ground. Other types of bones, though, I don't know for sure if they're safe. Back when I used to eat meat, I'd give steak bones to my Dobe. He loved it, devoured them and his poo would be interesting the next day – a sort of powdered, compressed version of cow bone. Okay, straying a bit here.

Look into Nylabone products. They make a wide variety. Some that are a bit softer and some that seem hard as stone. We got one of the hard ones for when we had a larger Bully breed. She liked it and did some respectable damage to it. Now, surprisingly, our Doberman puppy also likes it. Some dogs have softer mouths, some harder.

 

[MyBuddy]

Just remember any behavior you don't want as an adult don't encourage when they're puppies!

So True! And this is often forgotten with a small puppy.

 

[Gretchen_Red]

When G. was a puppy puppy (under 6 months) I only gave her cow bones. I did this because she didn't have the jaw strength to pierce them. The ones used to make soups (I want to say it's the knee) is a good one and it lasts! Now that G. is a little older she does get pig bones and ribs but I freeze them so they're crunchy. I've heard you can do the same with chicken but I'm still am too chicken to do that. I do know for a fact that raw diets use bones.

The only thing my breeder said was to stay away from pig ears and raw hides when they're puppies, as well as the pig and chicken bones.

I have a vet visit tomorrow for my other dog, so I'll ask my vet, he has 2 dobies.

 

[Sivas]

Sometime she just seems like she is hell bent on biting me, and no matter how stern I am, or how many times I pull her away she goes for me again.

I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM WITH MY BABY. Just hell bent determination on biting. (Just a note, I haven't read any of the replies past this yet)

 

[Offthechaink9trainer]

Dale,

I had to giggle when I read this. For the most part this will work UNLESS you have the one that learns very quickly that if they do the nip you and then run like hell, they will not get corrected. We had one like this and it was a daily battle with her for 9 years.

She was extremely well behaved in 'close quarters' but when you got outside with her where she had room to run, you better be ever careful with her or she would get you. She was not mean, she just knew when she had the advantage and had fun with it. Fun to her usually meant nasty bruises for me. Capt. Max would have enjoyed her.

Nellie

You can quickly correct this behavior by keeping your dog on a short or long leash until this problem is resolved. He can run but you can quickly reel him back and give him that much needed and wanted correction. Time is essential so correct as soon as issue happens.
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I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM WITH MY BABY. Just hell bent determination on biting. (Just a note, I haven't read any of the replies past this yet)

Why do you think she is trying to bite you? What are you doing when this behavior starts too happen?
[DOUBLEPOST=1429063037,1429062621][/DOUBLEPOST]

I think we may have confusion over natural animal bones vs. the many manmade "bones" available.

We've all heard that chicken bones are dangerous to dogs, right? I believe it. Too bad the culture among some where I live is to eat fried chicken and throw the bones on the ground. Other types of bones, though, I don't know for sure if they're safe. Back when I used to eat meat, I'd give steak bones to my Dobe. He loved it, devoured them and his poo would be interesting the next day – a sort of powdered, compressed version of cow bone. Okay, straying a bit here.

Look into Nylabone products. They make a wide variety. Some that are a bit softer and some that seem hard as stone. We got one of the hard ones for when we had a larger Bully breed. She liked it and did some respectable damage to it. Now, surprisingly, our Doberman puppy also likes it. Some dogs have softer mouths, some harder.

Chicken bones are just fine for dogs as long as they are given and consumed raw. The are a lot of articles out there that talks about raw diets and there benefits. I feed my Dobie raw leg quarters and he absolutely loves them. Dogs were not always domesticated. They still have dogs in the wild that eat raw meat like rabbitts and chickens. Perfectly normal for them. There digestive system is where are you different than ours. They can handle it. Raw fould will cure a lot of dog allergies, itching and their coat will look amazing.