Dog Aggression for the first time?

[Sage024]

Kanda is almost a year old now and improving in almost every way. He’s walking better, not as mouthy, listening better in the apartment and seems somewhat calmer overall. He has a friend in our apartment complex, a three year old intact male German Shepherd. They’ve played together three or four times in the dog area of our building and been totally fine. On first meeting (9months old I think?) kanda did try to hump him, I corrected him and he was fine thereafter. Today though, they were playing together in the dog area and Kanda had a go at the GSD friend. Luckily the GSD is extremely patient and seemed totally unbothered. At first we thought it was rough play, so I corrected kanda and the other owner and I agreed to let them keep playing. But then after a little bit, kanda went at him again, but this time pulled out several tufts of the other guys fur, along with a lot of growling/snarling sounds. I pulled him off, apologized to the other owner, we agreed it was a shame since they’d been getting along, and then I took kanda for a walk away from the building.(the GSD was unharmed and seemingly unbothered)

I’m shocked! They’d been getting along all these other times and now he unprovoked went after his “friend”. we are moving to another building in a few days and I’m worried now that he may do this with other dogs. The new place has an amazing dog area in comparison. A large turf fenced in dog park for residents, within a grassy half acre fenced in off leash friendly area. Because we live in a city and in an apartment, shared spaces with other people and dogs is our norm. Do I need to be worried that he’s becoming dog aggressive? Is it a dominance thing? Maybe because they’re both intact males and kanda is getting older? How do I correct this and prevent it from happening? I want to be able to trust him in the common dog areas, now I’m worried

 

[JanS]

Maybe because they’re both intact males and kanda is getting older? How do I correct this and prevent it from happening? I want to be able to trust him in the common dog areas, now I’m worried

I think you hit the nail on the head there. The hormones are kicking in and you can get SSA whether one or both are neutered. I would suggest either keeping him on the leash in the on leash area or waiting until there are no other dogs around to go in the off leash side. It probably wouldn't hurt to start e-collar training him either. It's important to do the e-collar training right though or it can make aggression worse if the timing is off.

 

[Sage024]

I’ve been considering e collar training with him, but wasn’t sure where to start, as I want him to be reliable off leash and have that extra safety measure in place. We are going to the beach for a family trip this October and id love for him to be able to run around off leash, but don’t trust him

 

[JanS]

I’ve been considering e collar training with him, but wasn’t sure where to start

See if you can find a trainer who knows what they're doing to get you off on the right foot. I don't necessarily recommend a hunting dog trainer since their training methods can be different for hunting but there are some good trainers out there too.

 

[Rits]

They are both intact and have hormones going. It is normal behavior for an intact male to start doing this when coming of age. They honestly don't need doggy friends and its ok that he doesn't prefer being around males. Being off leash expecting to "play" is different than on leash for walks as off leash is much more direct, face to face. I would leash walk him with his "friend" so they can focus on the walk and not having to interact with one another directly. He should be on his best behavior here. If you must, you should stick with him playing with a female friend. Dobermans love their people the most, though as that is what they were bred for! Playing with you should and usually does take priority

I would not do any off leash at his age until you are sure his recall is solid with all kinds of distractions. Most beaches dogs need to be on leash if they aren't doggy beaches.

 

[Ukesox]

I’ve been considering e collar training with him, but wasn’t sure where to start, as I want him to be reliable off leash and have that extra safety measure in place. We are going to the beach for a family trip this October and id love for him to be able to run around off leash, but don’t trust him

Handsome looking boy you have there Sage024

If you want him to be off leash anywhere youre going to need a 100% bullet proof “recall“ & “leave it” voice commands.

It’s great seeing a couple of dogs having fun together but it doesn’t teach them anything other than maybe …other dogs are more fun than you. At his age he’s just going into the doberteen phase when hormones are going to be racing & he’s likely to show behaviour that you’ve not expected or experienced before. This is quite normal, but correct guidance from you is going to be crucial during this stage. If you want him to become that trustworthy dog of your dreams you need to become the focus of his attention outside & how to behave, especially around other dogs. Unfortunately what is no doubt great fun for him (having a rough & tunable off-lead with other dogs) is most likely going work against you achieving this.

 

[Ukesox]

Rits…That’s spooky…nearly 4000 miles between us & we’re thinking the same thoughts at the same time…you’re obviously a faster typer than me

 

[Ddski5]

@Ukesox

That’s what’s soo cool about this site…..reaching out to folks all around the world.

 

[Sage024]

They are both intact and have hormones going. It is normal behavior for an intact male to start doing this when coming of age. They honestly don't need doggy friends and its ok that he doesn't prefer being around males. Being off leash expecting to "play" is different than on leash for walks as off leash is much more direct, face to face. I would leash walk him with his "friend" so they can focus on the walk and not having to interact with one another directly. He should be on his best behavior here. If you must, you should stick with him playing with a female friend. Dobermans love their people the most, though as that is what they were bred for! Playing with you should and usually does take priority

I would not do any off leash at his age until you are sure his recall is solid with all kinds of distractions. Most beaches dogs need to be on leash if they aren't doggy beaches.

That’s good to know and I think I’ve read comments on other threads about that before. He’s my first dog and I think I grew up with the notion that dogs LOVE dog parks and daycare and other dogs and they need a buddy. If dobies are happy without frequent dog play then I’m fine with just taking him to the dog area when there’s no one around or maybe just a female. My concern is I want him to be able to eventually be off leash in these areas to play with me or hangout while other dogs may also be around.

Do you have any advice for training solid and reliable recall? I don’t know at what age he should be perfect with this. Right now I would not trust him off leash. His friend all is good indoors but outdoors in a fenced area with any distraction, it’s like he doesn’t hear me. I really want to get this down with him for his own safety, especially in a city setting.

 

[Sage024]

Handsome looking boy you have there Sage024

If you want him to be off leash anywhere youre going to need a 100% bullet proof “recall“ & “leave it” voice commands.

It’s great seeing a couple of dogs having fun together but it doesn’t teach them anything other than maybe …other dogs are more fun than you. At his age he’s just going into the doberteen phase when hormones are going to be racing & he’s likely to show behaviour that you’ve not expected or experienced before. This is quite normal, but correct guidance from you is going to be crucial during this stage. If you want him to become that trustworthy dog of your dreams you need to become the focus of his attention outside & how to behave, especially around other dogs. Unfortunately what is no doubt great fun for him (having a rough & tunable off-lead with other dogs) is most likely going work against you achieving this.

Thank you! He is my handsome boy and such a sweetheart. I thought we were almost out of the doberteens, oh no! I definitely want bullet proof recall and leave it, as those are the biggest commands for his safety and the ones he’s the worst at currently. He still is so easily distracted. My current apartment is cramped and doesn’t have much outdoor dog space. So I’m really hoping that at the new place, with all that extra room, we can work on outdoor recall and add some distractions. If you have any advice for training “leave it” and “come” please share! He’s my first and I need all the tips I can get

 

[Ravenbird]

If you have any advice for training “leave it” and “come” please share! He’s my first and I need all the tips I can get

Have you gone to obedience classes with him? Usually these are with other dogs, all on leash & under control. Find someone who has experience with the breed, or at least with working type dogs so they understand. I'll add more later, but I've got a busy morning. Good on you for wanting to make him a better citizen!

 

[Sage024]

Have you gone to obedience classes with him? Usually these are with other dogs, all on leash & under control. Find someone who has experience with the breed, or at least with working type dogs so they understand. I'll add more later, but I've got a busy morning. Good on you for wanting to make him a better citizen!

We have not done obedience classes, but I’ve probably spent $2,000 now on one on one training, between two totally different trainers. So I’m REALLY needing a break from the $100 a week sessions (which I’m breaking from now, as I’m moving this week and paying double rent this month). I do think classes would be good for him but not sure where to take a high energy, reactive boy like him. I think he would overwhelm the petsmart classes haha

 

[Rits]

We have not done obedience classes, but I’ve probably spent $2,000 now on one on one training, between two totally different trainers. So I’m REALLY needing a break from the $100 a week sessions (which I’m breaking from now, as I’m moving this week and paying double rent this month). I do think classes would be good for him but not sure where to take a high energy, reactive boy like him. I think he would overwhelm the petsmart classes haha

I would check your area for local kennel clubs (AKC or UKC). These clubs usually put on group classes that are way better than your PetSmart hire lol. Group class will be much cheaper. Think $90-150 per 6 week session. And they usually do all sorts of classes like rally obedience, Nosework, agility etc. There are quite a few in my area that offer reactive classes too. Not all agree with prong use but don't let that deter you. They still have lots to offer you to put in your toolbox of dog training. It's ok to not agree on that one thing and still be open to advice.

 

[Rits]

Do you have any advice for training solid and reliable recall? I don’t know at what age he should be perfect with this. Right now I would not trust him off leash. His friend all is good indoors but outdoors in a fenced area with any distraction, it’s like he doesn’t hear me. I really want to get this down with him for his own safety, especially in a city setting.

There are many parts to building a good recall and it's difficult to explain it all here. The number one thing is having a fantastic bond, this will come with time and work put in. Obedience classes will greatly help with that. Playing recall games (lots of ideas online if you search this). Rewarding eye contact with varying distractions by taking him to new places and don't say anything. Let him decompress in his own time and then when he looks to you for direction, reward. Proofing the recall slowly (ie: variables; practice recall in varying environments and distractions) Always always set him up for success. If he isn't 100% recall at home, he won't be when you add a distraction. If he isn't 100% in a quiet building at training class with treat crumbs on the ground, he won't be at the quiet park with squirrels in the distance. Always have a long lead on so he cannot fail and learn he can get away without listening.

There are online studies for recall that may help! Fenzi Dog Sports Academy - LS165: How to Train Your Dog to Come: Reliable Recall Training

 

[Sage024]

There are many parts to building a good recall and it's difficult to explain it all here. The number one thing is having a fantastic bond, this will come with time and work put in. Obedience classes will greatly help with that. Playing recall games (lots of ideas online if you search this). Rewarding eye contact with varying distractions by taking him to new places and don't say anything. Let him decompress in his own time and then when he looks to you for direction, reward. Proofing the recall slowly (ie: variables; practice recall in varying environments and distractions) Always always set him up for success. If he isn't 100% recall at home, he won't be when you add a distraction. If he isn't 100% in a quiet building at training class with treat crumbs on the ground, he won't be at the quiet park with squirrels in the distance. Always have a long lead on so he cannot fail and learn he can get away without listening.

There are online studies for recall that may help! Fenzi Dog Sports Academy - LS165: How to Train Your Dog to Come: Reliable Recall Training

Thank you so much!

 

[Ravenbird]

Yes, as @Rits said, it would be hard to teach in a few paragraphs. I'm surprised and disappointed (you probably are too!) that you had so much one on one with training and this wasn't part of it? Indeed, PetsMart groups are to be avoided for sure. I'm really grateful that as few choices as I have for training in this tiny town, there's a terrific no-nonsense "behaviorist" type trainer here. Mostly helps people just like you - they have pretty good but overwhelming dogs - but really willing to learn how to get a handle on them. For really strong dogs like yours, she will start with Place, sits, downs and very shortly go straight into recalls. Prong collars & e-collars are introduced where needed. She does at least one in-house visit with clients before they come to group classes to evaluate the relationship going on between dog & handler. She doesn't show or title dogs, but is passionate about spending quality time & teaching the dog boundaries and manners so you can take them into stores, to patio restaurants, off leash hiking etc. They are generally doing off leash recalls within 6 - 8 weeks using e-collars for insurance. They meet in a low traffic public space. She lets me sit in on any of her group lessons because my dog needed (still needs!) lots of dog/people active distractions. Here's Asha working on her long down with that group.

 

[Sage024]

Yes, as @Rits said, it would be hard to teach in a few paragraphs. I'm surprised and disappointed (you probably are too!) that you had so much one on one with training and this wasn't part of it? Indeed, PetsMart groups are to be avoided for sure. I'm really grateful that as few choices as I have for training in this tiny town, there's a terrific no-nonsense "behaviorist" type trainer here. Mostly helps people just like you - they have pretty good but overwhelming dogs - but really willing to learn how to get a handle on them. For really strong dogs like yours, she will start with Place, sits, downs and very shortly go straight into recalls. Prong collars & e-collars are introduced where needed. She does at least one in-house visit with clients before they come to group classes to evaluate the relationship going on between dog & handler. She doesn't show or title dogs, but is passionate about spending quality time & teaching the dog boundaries and manners so you can take them into stores, to patio restaurants, off leash hiking etc. They are generally doing off leash recalls within 6 - 8 weeks using e-collars for insurance. They meet in a low traffic public space. She lets me sit in on any of her group lessons because my dog needed (still needs!) lots of dog/people active distractions. Here's Asha working on her long down with that group. View attachment 125511

It’s been a mixed bag here! when Kanda was much younger, we worked with a positive reinforcement only trainer, he learned his sit/down/stay and the beginnings of heel with her using treats but we spent probably four weeks on heel with little to no progress. Then had to take a long break because he got kennel cough. When he got better, I started with a no nonsense trainer that doesn’t use ecollars/prongs/treats but a custom slip lead/choke type leash, leash corrections and a lot of “attitude/energy” work. Kanda is absolutely perfect for him, but not so much for me, the trainer worked on stays/place/heel. We worked for probably two months, kanda still pulls often but not with the trainer. I had to stop sessions a few weeks ago because it was just draining my bank and I’m moving this week (expensive process). Not sure if I should start up again with that trainer or take him to group classes. I’m not sure what to expect from him at this age. I watch tons of Beckman’s Dog Training videos and Fenrir Dog Training videos and they make it look like a breeze, but my boy seems so distracted. I’m worried about switching up training methods again and confusing him or making him think I’m clueless. But one way or another I need a good dog citizen

 

[Two Dobes]

Wondering how things are going with Kanda? I understand it does cost a small fortune to get training, and good that your watching training videos! Lots of good stuff on You Tube; check out Leerburg videos as well.
The fact that he is distracted may be that you need to work on more focus work with him....focusing on you. Lots of videos on how to do that too . He needs to see you as the most important person in his world.

 

[Sage024]

Wondering how things are going with Kanda? I understand it does cost a small fortune to get training, and good that your watching training videos! Lots of good stuff on You Tube; check out Leerburg videos as well.
The fact that he is distracted may be that you need to work on more focus work with him....focusing on you. Lots of videos on how to do that too . He needs to see you as the most important person in his world.

Hey! Thanks for checking in, Kanda is doing well we have been moved into our new apartment for about two weeks now and it has made a massive difference in his behavior. He’s much less in our face and gets triple the amount of exercise he use to get. He can run every single day here and the apartment isn’t so cramped. He’s even made several dog friends here that he plays with occasionally and he’s had zero issues with aggression as long as it’s a female or neutered male and as long as they meet on leash first (I wait to see if he’s happy/tail wagging or stiff and posturing). So no dog aggression recently!

I financially can’t do any more training at the moment unless it’s super cheap, I’m just totally drained from the move and some pop up vet bills. Our biggest struggle right now, as you mentioned, is focus. E listens pretty good indoors or without distraction outside but if there’s other dogs or people he’s interested in, he suddenly goes deaf to commands lol. My biggest concern right now is recall and loose leash walking. Considering caving in and getting an ecollar but I don’t know how to use it properly. I’ll check out this focus training. It’s embarrassing sometimes, my neighbor has a six month old euro male and he seems so much more well trained than kanda at one year and I’ve spent thousands on training. I guess they’re all different. I’ve been told he’s a very stubborn boy. I watch a lot of Beckman dog training videos and Fenrir. Any advice is always welcome!

 

[CRDobe]

If you do get an e-collar, please please find someone knowledgeable about it to work with to learn the correct way to use it. The e-collar is not a magic cure and used incorrectly can be a disaster and cause a boatload of problems. In the right hands it's a great way to proof a recall!