Behind that seriously austere and handsome face lies the eternal soul of a true 'Goofball'. This boy has pulled every emotion out of me with his silly antics and his naughty puppy behavior but it's always the emotion of true love at the end of the day. Bacall is the same way, into everything imaginable, including my heart!!
I believe you are right about that. He usually/always has his mouth open. Smart dog reading mom's phone posts. Hahaha
Right ? Lol he looks like he's about to go remind someone why the Doberman is the king of breeds lol.
Hahahaha Ares is such a talented character!!Right ? Lol he looks like he's about to go remind someone why the Doberman is the king of breeds lol.
He got a rage lol very animated in the face. lol goofball
That is me looking at these idiots that cannot manage to keep it to 25 mph on my no-outlet street.
I'm gonna try to get a picture of his entire body in "stack" position and post it tomorrow. But for now, I'd like to have you guys critique the side view of his head! Just for fun
He looks so much happier when he pants. Is Ares' head really typical of a European with their mouth closed?
I believe so. He has a pretty intense look about him with a closed mouth, unless he is in trouble then the harshness totally goes away lol
Some dogs carry multiple color genes, so just cause their were blues and reds doesn't necessarily mean he is not the father. (might wanna go on Jerry Springer...Who's the father, lol!)
A true red boy : )Behind that seriously austere and handsome face lies the eternal soul of a true 'Goofball'. This boy has pulled every emotion out of me with his silly antics and his naughty puppy behavior but it's always the emotion of true love at the end of the day. Bacall is the same way, into everything imaginable, including my heart!!
Hard to tell in the pictures as he does not have definitive markings, but Vader may be Melanistic. It is the opposite of Albinism. I would do your research on Melanism as they come with associated health issues. It is not standard or accepted as a breed "color". That being said, he is a handsome fella. Can you share some more images of him with us? Does he have any markings on his head or his chest? How deep are his markings in color? If I was going by this image alone, I would say he is more than likely Melanistic, but hard to tell in just one image.
I like Drake's head. His sire stamped his head on his puppies. I can see a lot of Jess' River in that head too
I probably shouldn't bring this up, but since you mentioned about breeding for both work and looks, I thought I would. It seems strange to me that we would concentrate on one particular aspect for so long, while leaving the other. If a perfect dog was even a possibility, you would expect that dog to possess amazing beauty but ability to work as well. For a Doberman that was originally bred for protection, it would be a disappointment if that were eventually bred out due to conformation. Equally so, it would be sad if the only 'decent' working Dobes were not 'perfect' in conformation. Now, I love conformation. One of the reasons I adore the Dobe is because I love their 'look.' IF there ever came a time where you looked for a Doberman because you wanted a dog as beautiful in form as say the NA(sorry Euro, but for looks, I prefer the NA), but as powerful and capable as the best of the working Dobermans, then we might come to a time when there was little distinction between: NA(or SA) and Euro.Form should always follow function. A dog that moves properly should theoretically have proper conformation. We as conformation breeders breed to produce dogs to the standard we abhold to. A Doberman should not be large, or too thick or boxy. They should be muscular, agile, athletic and be able to jump through the open window of a car with ease. I will spare my personal opinions of the EU bred versus NA bred Dobermans in this thread as it should be used for education and should never manifest into a pissing match. Standards between the two types are similar
Discussing Doberman standard in NA is a lot of information. It's easier to go over specific regions individually in detail and then move on to the next. Otherwise you lose that detail and can't touch on specifics. Since you have been asking about heads Apollo's Dobermom, we can start there?
What you guys are seeing with differences in conformation and workability is the fact that most (not all) show breeders breed for form and function and tempermeant, not workability. They should breed for both! It is especially important for working dogs to have proper conformation, as working a body without proper structure can and will fail. They typically fail more quickly due to stress and strain on abnormal bones/joints. The working breeders breed for workability.
Some snipey puppies will grow out of their snipeyness. Some don't. At 6-9 weeks Aria was snipey. She has an ideal head now.
Head is one of the most important elements that define breed type. The head should be long and dry, resembling a blunt wedge in both frontal and profile views. When seen from the front, the head widens gradually toward the base of the ears in an unbroken line.
Eyes are almond shaped. Moderately deep set with vigorous, energetic expression. Iris should be uniform in color. They are medium to darkest brown in blacks. In reds, blues and fawns the color of the iris blends with the markings. The darkest color is preferred in every case. Expression should convey the image portrayed in the standard: energetic, watchful, determined, alert, fearless. Expression should be a look of intensity which should encompass the entire look of the dog. It is typically referred to as "the look of eagles"
Ears are normally cropped and carried erect. Upper attachment of the ear when held correctly is is on level with the top of the skull.
Planes of the head: top of skull flat turning with slight stop to bridge of muzzle with muzzle line extending parallel to top line of skull. Cheeks flat and muscular. Lips lying close to jaws.
Muzzle length should be equal to length of back of skull. Skull/muzzle straight and flat. Cheeks are flat. Ears are erect with straight edges.
Mouth: scissor bite (Lower incisors upright and touching inside of upper inscisors)42 correctly placed teeth (22 lower and 20 upper). DQ are four or more missing teeth, overshot of more than 3/16" or undershot more than 1/8".
This is a perfectly correct head. We can comment on the pictures because they are my dogs
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Different dog. Also mine. This is also a correct head, although she is slightly too wet in the mouth in this first picture, but she is not normally
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Same dog
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Beautiful masculine head
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Good example of the difference between a bitch and dog head
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Just a thought. When you explained snipey that way, I think I understand it better. The standard asks for a blunt wedge for the head, therefore, a snipey snout would not have that 'blunt' appearance in the same way, right?
Oji has beautiful markings and coloring! I really like his ear crop as well. These pictures and the explanations have been really useful for learning about Doberman confo and learning to identify it more easily. How is his working ability?Allright, here we go: Ever hear that Bible verse that says like "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?"I assessed a Dobe or two, now, I give you Oji.
First shot: Aged 6 months, 1 week.
• SNIPEY! Lack of underjaw (in fact, his lower – and upper – canines are actually shorter in length than what I've ever seen in a Dobe. Seems jaw area is just underdeveloped. This remains the case to this day.
• Looks downsnouted in this pic, as he sometimes does.
• Decent forechest in this position.
• I will brag on his nice cat-like paws.
• Eyes too round and not deeply enough set (this is maybe my biggest beef with him, and he has actually bumped the semi-bulging eyes on things, which is antithetical to being an effective working dog)
• I do fairly well like his marking coloration – fairly rich rust. I like his separated "kiss mark" or "clown mark" on cheek.
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Below: Aged 9 months, 2 weeks: A strange side-note here: This appears to be when he was about 70 lbs., or even his pinnacle of 72 lbs. – before he dropped in weight
The body:
• Topline takes an upward turn just before about 1/2 way toward the back.
• Tail set on way too low!
• Chest too shallow – not reaching the elbow.
• Not much forechest to speak of
• I like the thickness of the neck here. It also can have the long, arched look sometimes.
• Thighs muscled fairly well
I will note on the head in this pic: It actually looks good, though overall smaller than I'd like. Amazing what panting does.
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I would agree on you with that. But I don't think that that is always going to be the case. On the other hand, if the Doberman has an overall even conformation, the thickness of the tail should match the body. It wouldn't make sense for a narrow Dobe to have a huge thick tail, or a even a heavy built Dobe to have a really thin one(although I think that is more likely than the other).
I think part of the problem is that not that the standards are different between AKC and FCI, they are actually quite similar if you take the time to read them. Its that judges interpretation of the standard (or possibly lack of) are putting up typey dogs... and then those that are chasing ribbons seek to breed typey dogs and then you end up with a class full of dogs on one extreme or another with only a few that actually meet the standard but look out of place next to all the typey ones.
