Hi im new to this forum. Im actually from Malaysia and i intend to import a male european dobie. Currently i have a female argentinean lineage who is active in obedience but i wanted a dog who could train in personal protection as well. Currently im looking at two kennels sant kreal and padok. Anyone have experience dealing with these kennels or could provide any insight into their litters?
Gretchen_Red
Hot Topics Subscriber
One of my good friends has Sant Kreal Vassal. Very nice looking dog (I like to tease that he's Gretchen's boyfriend), very nice breeder. Marienburg just titled a Red Sant Kreal as well, last weekend I believe, Sant Kreal Estrong. They seem to have a nice temperament as well. My friend is also doing some Sch/IPO training with her male.
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CathyNu
Active Member
Hi rexyangel - I am in the USA and have imported all my European dobermanns myself. The MOST IMPORTANT factors when importing is to ask for proof of necessary health testing of the Sire and Dam of the litter in question. I personally WON'T import from any of the old east block breeders as few of them do full and proper health testing, or are actually able to supply the proof of that testing. I presume you are well versed and knowlegable with the pressing health issues in our breed and know what to ask for ??
Elena Kruglova has lovely dogs - in fact she uses one of my favourite breeders studs very often Diamante Nero - and to be honest with you I was VERY INTERESTED in a litter of hers back in April of 2013 - Sire Nibbio Del Diamante Nero x Saint Kreal Ms Munroe - I had to let that litter pass, as the only health testing she had done was hip scores. The other tests that are imperative to ask for are a Thyroid blood panel and either a 24hr heart holter or proof of EKG ...... Just a couple of thoughts to ponder.
Elena Kruglova has lovely dogs - in fact she uses one of my favourite breeders studs very often Diamante Nero - and to be honest with you I was VERY INTERESTED in a litter of hers back in April of 2013 - Sire Nibbio Del Diamante Nero x Saint Kreal Ms Munroe - I had to let that litter pass, as the only health testing she had done was hip scores. The other tests that are imperative to ask for are a Thyroid blood panel and either a 24hr heart holter or proof of EKG ...... Just a couple of thoughts to ponder.
CathyNu
Active Member
Oh I absolutely agree Elena has LOVELY looking dogs .... but once again have you checked WHAT health testing has been done on these dogs - keeping in mind the PDK4 DCM gene test is really not something that holds much credibility as it is only 1 gene that has been biomarked and it is thought there are several others that are also affected - please remember that at least 67% of this breed is taken by DCM - I'm not trying to turn anyone against their favourite breeders - if these breeders are in fact doing full and correct health testing as well as titling then definitely go ahead and reward them by supporting them ...... once again if a nice looking dog that will work is your only consideration and you don't mind your dog dying at age 4, I guess that becomes a moot point. All I am trying to point out is the fact that it is imperative that all of us who support breeders know what questions to ask them regarding the health testing they have done .... then ask them for proof of these tests as well as what titling they have done as well as the proof thereof ...... Good Luck - I hope you find the puppy of your dreams !!
Gretchen_Red
Hot Topics Subscriber
No I can't say I've ever contacted the breeder to inquire on their health testing. I was assuming since Elena & Mary Rogers purchased a dog that they would have made sure all proper health testing was done. Always when purchasing a puppy make sure the breeder's doing the health testing!
[DOUBLEPOST=1435114452][/DOUBLEPOST]ARE They doing all of the health testing other than the holter/echo?
[DOUBLEPOST=1435117862,1435114270][/DOUBLEPOST]I always forget that the breeders name is Elena abs so is my friend! I was wondering how you knew her dog lol
[DOUBLEPOST=1435114452][/DOUBLEPOST]ARE They doing all of the health testing other than the holter/echo?
[DOUBLEPOST=1435117862,1435114270][/DOUBLEPOST]I always forget that the breeders name is Elena abs so is my friend! I was wondering how you knew her dog lol
Atlas
Novitiate
Hello Rexyangel. I have a Sant Kreal Dog sired by SK Zeus and SK Yurmala. I can never be happier with my dog. Not only conformation wise, my dog meets the standard, but his working abilities and the temperament is all one owner can wish for. My IPO trainer in the US loves working with my dog, and haven't seen such drive in Dobermans here for a while.
One thing I have to say or advise to you. Despite what other responses were in regards of Sant Kreal Health testings, Elena tests all her breeding dogs for all the required proper testings according to European breeding programs. Should you inquire of such tests, she will be able to provide them. Health tests are important, but European dogs has less health issues unlike American bred dogs. And therefore, some testings are not required there unlike here in the US. I know very well established breeders here in the US who used Sant Kreals in their breeding programs. I have never heard any bad reviews in regards of their progenies neither health issues. And if there was an incident here and there, believe me, its just like in humans. You can't judge a basket of apple because of a bad one.
If you are looking for a dog for the protection purposes, health equally is important as their working background through generations. And for that, my friend, I would recommend only dogs from Europe. I would recommend you to contact Elena Kruglova herself (santkreal.ru) and she is a lovely, dedicated person to this breed who doesn't breed dogs just because. Dobermans are her passion, her life and she dedicated most of her life on her breeding program. Well knowledged person who wouldn't give her puppies away to just anyone. Responsible breeder I can recommend to anyone in this world.
Another advise I would recommend is to find out proper information you need through other breeders or people who owns dogs from the kennels you are interested in. Ask from the breeder of the referrals. Because usually, posting anything on talks and chats website, will misguide you and you'll end up with something you didn't want or worse be discouraged. I would personally never would use public sites for finding my dog. I would contact breeders, and ask million questions I need to ask before I make a decision. And if you are looking for a European dog and public sites as your way to inquire information, then I would suggest to get on European websites, not the US one as believe me, not everyone here are pro Euro Doberman sometimes.
Best of luck!
Drogon
Hot Topics Subscriber
Here's a good article from Dr. Reinhard Haberzett. It shows how the Eastern EU countries through at least 1990 were 'healthier' and had very little spread of genetic defects compared to USA and Western EU
http://www.dobermann-review.com/inf...ealth Problems/Doberman_hereditary_3681FE.pdf
[DOUBLEPOST=1435120647,1435119251][/DOUBLEPOST]Another thing to consider is crop and dock laws and restrictions. Wiki shows that Malaysia is unrestricted. Assuming that is correct you have your choice of a dog who is cropped and docked or unaltered. Some EU countries have banned cropping and docking. If you were to import an unaltered dobe and you did it early enough you could have your pup's ears cropped once in Malaysia.
If you are considering this, start looking for the best vet surgeon that you can find now. You'll want to know before you get your pup. You don't want to be rushed and once you get your pup, life changes for a while. Young pups like human babies require a great deal of time and attention, not leaving you with enough to search for a good surgeon.
http://www.dobermann-review.com/inf...ealth Problems/Doberman_hereditary_3681FE.pdf
[DOUBLEPOST=1435120647,1435119251][/DOUBLEPOST]Another thing to consider is crop and dock laws and restrictions. Wiki shows that Malaysia is unrestricted. Assuming that is correct you have your choice of a dog who is cropped and docked or unaltered. Some EU countries have banned cropping and docking. If you were to import an unaltered dobe and you did it early enough you could have your pup's ears cropped once in Malaysia.
If you are considering this, start looking for the best vet surgeon that you can find now. You'll want to know before you get your pup. You don't want to be rushed and once you get your pup, life changes for a while. Young pups like human babies require a great deal of time and attention, not leaving you with enough to search for a good surgeon.
Atlas
Novitiate
[DOUBLEPOST=1435120647,1435119251][/DOUBLEPOST]Another thing to consider is crop and dock laws and restrictions. Wiki shows that Malaysia is unrestricted. Assuming that is correct you have your choice of a dog who is cropped and docked or unaltered. Some EU countries have banned cropping and docking. If you were to import an unaltered dobe and you did it early enough you could have your pup's ears cropped once in Malaysia.
If you are considering this, start looking for the best vet surgeon that you can find now. You'll want to know before you get your pup. You don't want to be rushed and once you get your pup, life changes for a while. Young pups like human babies require a great deal of time and attention, not leaving you with enough to search for a good surgeon.[/QUOTE]
Very good point Drogon. I can't stress enough how important it is to find a good vet who does a good job on ears. I've seen some Dobes with horrible ear cuts that makes me sad the way they look now. The easiest way is to actually get it from a country where it is optional still and the request can be for cropped ears and they crop them, and once healed ship them to you. Thats how I got my boy. He was cropped in Russia and was shipped to me to the US. and I love the job they did there.
[DOUBLEPOST=1435121198][/DOUBLEPOST]
If you are considering this, start looking for the best vet surgeon that you can find now. You'll want to know before you get your pup. You don't want to be rushed and once you get your pup, life changes for a while. Young pups like human babies require a great deal of time and attention, not leaving you with enough to search for a good surgeon.[/QUOTE]
Very good point Drogon. I can't stress enough how important it is to find a good vet who does a good job on ears. I've seen some Dobes with horrible ear cuts that makes me sad the way they look now. The easiest way is to actually get it from a country where it is optional still and the request can be for cropped ears and they crop them, and once healed ship them to you. Thats how I got my boy. He was cropped in Russia and was shipped to me to the US. and I love the job they did there.
[DOUBLEPOST=1435121198][/DOUBLEPOST]
I personally love SK Zeus. His head is just a dream. And his progeny is just amazing. He passes on a lot of him to his kids.
Dobs4ever
Hot Topics Subscriber
Sadly this is no longer true - if you study pedigrees line breeding is prevalent on both sides of the world and so is the use of popular sires. There is an article here regarding the cardio problems in the Euro dogs which rivals the American. Remember they all came from an original very small gene pool. The Euros also have a higher incidence of the PRA so important to do the eye exams as it can be diagnosed in young puppies.
Below is the link to Doberman Review in which they list the same health problems the list is the same as for the American dogs. Many BYB made a lot of money based on the false info that the Euro's are healthier.
http://www.dobermann-review.com/inf...and_other_ health_problems_ in_Dobermanns.htm
F
FredC
It would seem people put more thought in their prospective puppies then they do their partners that they aspire to have children with.
I'm trying to recall the last time I asked a perspective girlfriends parents if i could see her performance titles before our first date. I wonder how that would go?
I know Apple's and Oranges. But i still find it a somewhat interesting phenomena. (perhaps another thread is in order on the subject someday.)
I'm trying to recall the last time I asked a perspective girlfriends parents if i could see her performance titles before our first date. I wonder how that would go?
I know Apple's and Oranges. But i still find it a somewhat interesting phenomena. (perhaps another thread is in order on the subject someday.)
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Gretchen_Red
Hot Topics Subscriber
Atlas
Novitiate
Rexyangel, I was talking to Elena with Sant Kreals and she has many owners with her dogs in Malaysia. I would advise you to contact her to get information on those owners and talk to them directly so you can form your opinion on that particular kennel. Good luck!
CathyNu
Active Member
Could not agree with you more Dobs4ever ...... There are 2 people I know who bought Dobies from well known breeders in the old East and both puppies died at 6mo of enlarged hearts - and this was confirmed via necrupsy. A pipe dream of people who still think the European Dobermann is more healthy than the American Dobermann Pincher - these days most big name breeders are in it for the big wins so they continue to breed to the popular sires, many of whom are off sick lines, or the high volume distributors who are in it for a quick buck ...... This is the very reason I am as picky as I am about what I buy ....
F
FredC
I can't disagree but I think we all put our various needs in our own particular order based on our personal experiences wants and or needs. I also believe it's equally a pipe dream to believe there are enough genuinely ethical breeders out there to sustain the breed as it sits today. And most would never be approved for homes from such a thorough and caring breeder. Supply and demand drives any market. Proper change takes time, quick fixes introduce new problems. I think we are all on the same team I just don't believe in or subscribe to one size fits all programs.
CathyNu
Active Member
GREAT analogy !!!
sineadlenihan
Lurking Member
I live in Ireland and my Hugo is From Ireland. He is the best in Guarding and also as a family dog. I have children ad he shares the couch in the sitting room with them, he is not happy unless he is with them. He loves his mammy and always does as I ask... He is the perfect guard dog and house dog. He is my baby and I would not trade him in for any american doberman out there regardless of breed or anything else. He is also Irish kennel club reg. He is my baby. xx
sineadlenihan
Lurking Member
i am from ireland and would glady take on any doberman from america to be my hugos companion. I dont discriminate against different doberman.
DobeLove1980
Member
I think that a true Dobe lover should love dobes no matter euro or American, both are still dobermans! Both have there differences but both awesome dogs, period!!!!!You can argue that point but the facts are that they are the same breed with separate standards. Id like to see the best of both worlds, but the best of these two worlds would very greatly just as opinions do. Not argueing your point, because i kind of tend to agree with the first part of your statement, but i would disagree with the second part. IMO..
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