American VS European Doberman

  • Thread starter Thread starter FredC
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As far as I know Christina Oprescu is out of Romania - the person to contact would be Julie Lopez who is out of Puerto Rico (Di Monti Carlo Dobermans) - if I'm not mistaken she acts as an agent for Game on in this part of the world. I don't do South American so I can't help you with that.
 
Thanks cathy, we have met Julie and we are getting a puppy from her, we feel very lucky to have met her , we were wondering about the dame 's kennel. It is Julie first breeding so the history would be with the parents of the litter
 
You used the word sheneanians when refering to why the Serbian Club was removed from IDC.
You are being too kind.
I would have used the words, wide spread cheating, faking pedigrees, paying vets to fake health tests and
shooting pups up with steriods. Not all Serbian breeders but just enough to get into trouble.



In my experience (and perhaps IceMan would like to chip in here) size dependent on the lines been bred to. In eastern Europe over the past couple of years the terrier gene has been bred out and whether there has been gene tampering who knows - I would for eg not trust buying a dog out of Serbia because there is no legislation there whatsoever and the Serbian Kennel Club of whatever its called has been kicked out of IDC because of shenanians so there is no telling what gets bred there -
 
Well yes, but I also haven't supported any of their breeders either .......... We are very ethical and we only do business with people who do business the same way we do ........
 
Good on you for not supporting these cheaters. Serbian breeders are in business because of the
ban on cropping/docking in Western Europa. People that want a cropped/docked dog go to Serbia.
I am almost hoping for the FCI ban on croppng/docking just to put these breeders out of business.


CathyNu said:
Well yes, but I also haven't supported any of their breeders either .......... We are very ethical and we only do business with people who do business the same way we do ........
Click to expand...
 
Look lets put it this way .... I've been around the block a fair amount - and I know the ins and outs of whats going on in Europe. I imported BOTH my dogs myself. I had long dialogs with the breeders I supported, and before I slapped our hard earned $'s on their kennel counters, these people had let me have copies of ALL the health test reports they'd had done. If a breeder wasn't able to supply me with my requests or wouldn't I just let the litter go, no matter how interested I was in the litter. Clean bill of health followed by full and proper titling was of utmost importance to me. On top of that we did a 13 generation bloodlines analysis on these dogs pedigrees which enabled us to get the lowest COI's and DCM/Cancer death incidences of all the litters available at the times I was shopping. As to cropping and docking ..... That is of NO consequence to me - my last dog arrived here at age 4 months all natural, and the very next week he was taken to a vet and the tail and dews were amputated and the ears cut ...... I honestly believe FCI banning c/d would be stupid because all its done sofar is stop breeders having litters cause a lot less people want the dogs in the all natural state - but you are welcome to your view this is mine.
 
I presume you must be in Australia then ?? Or is your dog out of one of those bred by the Kollenbergs and brought to America in the 80's ?? and no not worldwide .... the knowledge I have is based on the dogs in Europe - but more western Europe, because the phenotype I like has been bred there and is more in tune with what is in the show rings in America than the dogs bred in Eastern Europe
 
CathyNu said:
I presume you must be in Australia then ?? Or is your dog out of one of those bred by the Kollenbergs and brought to America in the 80's ?? and no not worldwide .... the knowledge I have is based on the dogs in Europe - but more western Europe, because the phenotype I like has been bred there and is more in tune with what is in the show rings in America than the dogs bred in Eastern Europe
Click to expand...
I have no idea! Im actually having a bit of a look right now. He's got a lot of new zealand on his father side and one of those is an American Ch Cambrias Cactus Cash.
So Im tracing from there :-) Is the Dobequest.org page fairly accurate? Is it maintained by a association or just an enthusiast?
 
I'm sorry MemphisBlue, I cannot help you out on any dogs bred on American Lines, as I only do the European stuff .... but there are many on here who have "Eddie" in their lines who would be well qualified to answer all your questions ..... now if you wanted to know about Jivago or Fedor, that would be a whole other story .... good luck !!! Dobquest for anything I've looked at has always proved to be pretty accurate, and as far as I know is upheld by the owners or breeders of the dogs in question.
 
I am one of the volunteers who help keep Dobequest up to date. It is a very impressive site and many people have worked very diligently to keep it accurate as humanly possible. Probably one of the most well know SA kennels is the Black Shadow kennel who bred Trotyl and Inaqui.
 
Dobs4ever said:
I am one of the volunteers who help keep Dobequest up to date. It is a very impressive site and many people have worked very diligently to keep it accurate as humanly possible. Probably one of the most well know SA kennels is the Black Shadow kennel who bred Trotyl and Inaqui.
Click to expand...
Oh cool. Now, is Dobequest mostly devoted to conformation Dobes?
 
In the late 1980's the Kollenbergs were responsible for several quality Dobermanns to be exported to America.
Alide von Flsandsrschen Lowen a German Champion SchH-III ZTPV1A
Amdia vom Flandrischen Lowen a SchH-III.ZTP V1a Her American owners took her back to completethe CACs for her German Champion title.
Kalina vom Norden Stamm IPO-III German Champion World Champion.
Kira vom Norden Stamm full sister to Kalina.

CathyNu said:
presume you must be in Australia then ?? Or is your dog out of one of those bred by the Kollenbergs and brought to America in the 80's ?? and no not worldwide ..
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the direction @franktoscano I think he may be. Ive found that his mothers lineage goes to fireax twice the valour who I belive is a litter mate of fireax twice the fun who can be traced back to kalina vom norden.
How exciting! :-D AND I found a great site for the south side of the equator called Dobepac.com I can trace back to the 50s!
 
I would contact Phillip and Linda Calamia who ownes vom Adlercrest Dobermanns in California.
They have sent many frozen collections to Australia producing over 30 litters out of Adlercrest Danzig.
A Brown/rust Champion IPO-III SchH-III Danzig was whelped in California out of Amida vom Flandrischen Lowen
and Ebo van der Groot Matte The breeder of several of these litters was Tony Stanley of Huz Dobermanns. QLD
I know that Dobermann Pacific was a very active site at one time. I know that Tony also imported the Dutch male Fos de los Vaslientes
and the Calamia's imported his full brother Falko de los Valientes. Both out standing males.



"]Thanks for the direction @franktoscano I think he may be. Ive found that his mothers lineage goes to fireax twice the valour who I belive is a litter mate of fireax twice the fun who can be traced back to kalina vom norden.
How exciting! :-D AND I found a great site for the south side of the equator called Dobepac.com I can trace back to the 50s![/QUOTE]
 
"Bigger" is a possibly a subjective term as many here have argued that EU dobes aren't 'bigger'. When I brought my EU (Serbian) pup to my vet here at home (chicagoland) for the first time this is what he said
"Oh Wow, where in Europe did you get him? ... You don't see muscle mass like this in the 'Americanized Dobermans' and you don't see that broad jaw. The Americanized dobes have that pointy nose"
The second time I took him in, he went to get another doctor to show her my dobe. An assistant joined in and my vet said "This dog is really special - I mean all dogs are special but this one is like a Bugatti"

I do think the idea that EU dobes are better for "working sports" is probably a bit too broad. The more I learn about Ring Sport, the more it seems to me that a NA dobe might do better than an EU dobe because of the jumping. IMHO EU dobes have a bigger chest and more muscle which can take a toll when jumping over high / long jumps.

Personally I think the images on the first post are spot on
 
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