2 Dobes, 2 GSDs, 2 Mals

[BG1]

Over 20 years of owning and raising Dobermans and have never, ever had the need for a shock collar...




I don't buy the BS for a second that you people that DO use them are 'only' using them for the little buzzing sound they can make. Nope...

You are using them as 'correction' tools and I bet some with harder dogs are dialing that level of 'correction' way on up there.

In my opinion - If you 'require' a shock collar OR a pocket full of tasty dog treats (talking long term here and not initial training stuff) - You are not a 'good' dog trainer. (which is WHY treats and shock collars are NOT allowed in competitions)


The entire point of using tools such as pinch collars, shock collars and pockets full of treats is to train your dog to the point that you do not 'need' those tools any longer for them to be able to respond to whatever in the manner you have trained them to respond.

That every single dog in that picture HAD shock collars on says everything about their actual level of training that one needs to know.

Hmmm. @Aaron56 you remind me of a Natural Dog Training guy I hired who taught me how to train some tasks for Service Dog, whose experience goes back 40 years to jr handler for his Mom as showdog breeder, then competition winning in Obedience etc, an AKC CGC number on the low 3 digits...

His first statement when I brought Bonnie out of the car was: put the pring collar and the ecollar on the hood...we wont need that.

Another I try to embody is: You are the reward.

I'm still working on the most challenging tasks like off leash heel and recall in high disrraction, duration, and distance...the ultimate goal being to not need the e-collar...but I'll still put it on someplace where I want the insurance if Bonnie is at risk,

and RN her obedience isn't 100% perfect without out it, yet. (See coyotes-they are everywhere around here, so I want a recall for example on the command, no hesitation, no questions)

I admire that your pups can go out front but stop at property boundary without going into the street, even if there is a sketchy character out there they alert and bark fiercely at...

How did you train that, and how do you maintain 100% on that, without a positive food reward, or longline with choke, prong, or ecollar?

 

[Ddski5]

Over 20 years of owning and raising Dobermans and have never, ever had the need for a shock collar...

Then you don’t know…
You’ve never ever used an ECollar, therefore how do you know? You are making assumptions that everyone uses it as a “shock collar”.

I did have a Doberman in which I had to crank the stim multiple times- it was a choice of keeping him on leash or let him be free to the environment offleash. He enjoyed being offleash more than onleash, so I would give him the freedom. Granted he was my very first Doberman with a very independent attitude- was I the best trainer/owner for him? Prob not but he developed into a beast of a Doberman that was very disciplined- with the help of prong/Ecollar. The argument here is- well you should have trained him better and longer on leash and then when it’s time go off leash…..not when I can train in a shorter amount of time offleash with an ECollar.

The entire point of using tools such as pinch collars, shock collars and pockets full of treats is to train your dog to the point that you do not 'need' those tools any longer for them to be able to respond to whatever in the manner you have trained them to respond.

That’s the goal, yes. But I can promise you that this guy, when in a jacked up high drive state, didn’t audibly hear me recall or give a rats ass about any commands being given. A strong stim with the ECollar would shake him out of his prey drive delirium and get him to focus on me.


Then through continued work and training, Rag was able to sit across a busy street from Canadian geese without succumbing to his delirious prey drive. He did sit there, on command but entire time he was breathing hard moaning and groan staving off the desire to bolt- because he knew the consequences.


Offleash on side of a bayou- Has ECollar because of concern for going after alligators. So walk him in the wild with a physical leash instead of letting him free to roam in sight?

So I’m considered a bad trainer for using the stim of an ECollar to teach this beast discipline/obedience so he can:
1. Not cross a road and get hit by a car.
2. Not succumb to his prey drive yearning and tear of after animals…one day maybe being led into the woods by one coyote only to meet five of them.

No way you can convince me that a positive (non ECollar non prong) training person could tame this guy to be offleash in public- parks, soccer fields, football stadiums, bayous, ocean beaches and have the confidence that he would adhere to all commands 100%. No fricking way…dreaming right there.

Now this girl?? Freyja?
Probably so, but she is at the other side of the spectrum. Eager to please, easily trainable and looks to me. I’ve used the both prong and ECollar with her and didn’t use it long- she responded quickly and respectively. I still use the ECollar with her when at the football stadium or when kayaking down a river…not too sure that my verbal command can break her out of chasing a coyote in the woods- do I want to gamble with that?

Freyja in a sit hold jacked up about that squirrel. No ECollar here but in a controlled environment. Would I trust this in a city park next to busy roads?? All it takes is one time for them to lose focus and get hit by a car, just one time? You gambling with that or just choosing to be onleash the entire time? Because that’s what an ECollar is- an invisible leash.

I respect your 20yrs but not being obstinate about prong/Ecollar uses.

 

[Ddski5]

I admire that your pups can go out front but stop at property boundary without going into the street, even if there is a sketchy character out there they alert and bark fiercely at...

How did you train that, and how do you maintain 100% on that, without a positive food reward, or longline with choke, prong, or ecollar?

Another time you impress me…





@BG1.
What kind of work background you have?

 

[Rits]

That every single dog in that picture HAD shock collars

Wrong. Are you blind???



Just because you think its true, and because you say its true, doesn't mean its actually true. Which could apply to the rest of your logic. Dogs. are not. robots. They make mistakes! No matter how good you think your training is! End of. Using tools to manage your dogs...ie: leashes, ecollars, prongs, is the responsible thing to do. If you want to put your dogs at risk, then so be it, but don't come on here and judge others who choose their dogs safety over having a holier than thou attitude.

The average dog has the intelligence of a toddler in terms of problem solving, among other things. Would you leave your child in the front yard of a very busy road with no containment while you were distracted and expect them to "just know better" ? If they messed up once, and got hit and killed by a car, would you think, "Oh well, that'll teach them" ?

Do you ever stop yourself and ask why you are the only one in this "room" in agreement with yourself? This all stemmed because you felt the need to say something critical about a positive post on someone's dog and their friend's dogs enjoying a group walk in a public space off leash together. Them wearing ecollars is the responsible thing to do since they are off leash with risks all around. You don't need to always look for something to criticize for the mere sake of it "because you can". I imagine you don't have many friends in life with this style of thinking.

 

[JanS]

No matter how good you think your training is! End of. Using tools to manage your dogs...ie: leashes, ecollars, prongs, is the responsible thing to do. If you want to put your dogs at risk, then so be it, but don't come on here and judge others who choose their dogs safety over having a holier than thou attitude.

This!
I'm not going to waste any keystrokes on someone who is so opinionated that his way is the only way when we all know better.

 

[BG1]

And before him, it was Tom Dorrance and Ray Hunt, both of whom influenced my starting young horses. There were a lot of good methods taught through these guys, but also as time went on into the 90's, so many copycats raked in $$$ but didn't have the natural talent, calling themselves "natural horseman"... The stories I could tell...LOL.

I do agree that some people have an other-worldly gift with animals, their connection and reading the minds and body language of animals is a gift. I come from a musically talented family but I didn't get the gift except appreciation for music. Playing an instrument and singing was just not in the cards for me, but from my earliest memories my mind revolved around animals and nature.

@Ravenbird Horses are sacred creatures, no doubt. I'd like to here some of those stories.
We need a forum for "great stories telling"