Doberman Cross Breeding Project

[BGpa]

Laura V-B bio includes "snuggling with a Doberman with ears and a tail". Again, I have zero problems with natural Dobes. I advocate for them and have criticized DPCA for their policy of leaving them out of pictures. But between the lines I read "I'm not one of those people who mutilate their puppy". I don't tolerate intolerance from either side.

Heh. Did not catch that but yeah...reading how she interviews buyers, lays out the rules...pretty germanic which I have bo problem with being 1/4 squarehead too.
I'm tempted to call and learn more, inc ask about the Fkc out cross with Howavarts but nah....
she is clear about no contact unless serious buyers with deposits. Again no problem not even close to that on any next dog.
So I'll just file it for awhile.

Good info on the breed, anyway.

 

[Ravenbird]

PS met a guy with wonderful young male english working line black lab...with protective character...so I got a line on his breeder, gathering notes on SD#2 when I have to retire Bonnie someday.

Just happened to be a little protective or the breeder was liking that temperament in their program. I'd be interested... I do love those working labs, but I like a dog to be more reserved and just a tiny bit suspicious of any ol' stranger.

 

[BGpa]

Ahh, so many dogs, so little time.

Where do I get my do/over for a second lifetime with dogs?
I'm envious of you young whippersnappers breeding, owner handling, making a difference. And rescuers...What a life!

 

[Ravenbird]

I found this infographic that may make more sense to people who don't quite get using the chosen breeds in the Finnish Outcross program. Every little bit helps, and even though I already understand how it works, I'm mentally able to process things better if I have a picture in my head!

 

[Ravenbird]

this infographic

This example is just using 2-3 other breeds, you can see how diverse the genes could become using 4 or more, mixing them all up, breeding back constantly to purebreds to solidify the Doberman side. If done properly they could have a solid Doberman with great diversity in no time.

 

[DobieDesire]

This example is just using 2-3 other breeds, you can see how diverse the genes could become using 4 or more, mixing them all up, breeding back constantly to purebreds to solidify the Doberman side. If done properly they could have a solid Doberman with great diversity in no time.

I don't recall where I read it, or even if it's true, where Bull Mastiffs where created by using English Bulldogs in a cross. Hmm, will have to look that up.

Just looked it up: Breeders discovered that the ideal cross for their work was roughly 60% Mastiff and 40% Bulldog. This combination provided the perfect balance: enough speed to intercept a running poacher and enough size to pin them to the ground

It was the "Olde English Bulldog", the above from AI

 

[JanS]

I know this isn't the way you want to cross breed but I suppose a similar result could happen if crossed with a Beaceran since merle is an accepted color in that breed. If this isn't AI I'm guessing they're just tossing together to get a "rare" color.

 

[DobieDesire]

I know this isn't the way you want to cross breed but I suppose a similar result could happen if crossed with a Beaceran since merle is an accepted color in that breed. If this isn't AI I'm guessing they're just tossing together to get a "rare" color.
View attachment 161577

I did not know that Beaucerons came in merle, I thought they were all black and rust/tan. The photo above "marle" describes fabric, "merle" describes coloring of animals, I do believe.

 

[BGpa]

I know this isn't the way you want to cross breed but I suppose a similar result could happen if crossed with a Beaceran since merle is an accepted color in that breed. If this isn't AI I'm guessing they're just tossing together to get a "rare" color.
View attachment 161577

There was someone posting on Intagram awhile back...merle dobes, a couple in a litter of black and reds- in a time series of crappy photos on dirty mattress...obv BYB.

Wanted $12,000 for the merles.

They were ripped to shreds on r/doberman-pinscher - speculation crossed with danes or catahoula for merles.

I'm sure there are scammers now making AI photos.
And There are lots of idjits on TokTok and IG, some content creators and influencers with more money than common sense, who need the latest fashion accessory to go with spandex covered content...meow!!!
See also you-tubers, recall one popped up in my feed: "how to make big bux breeding merle french bullies in your house" bragging with lambo in the driveway...

 

[JanS]

The photo above "marle" describes fabric, "merle" describes coloring of animals, I do believe.

You are right there so either they can't spell or they're trying to make a merle, harlequin mix.

Wanted $12,000 for the merles.

Oof and that makes me sick... Poor dogs.

 

[BGpa]

This example is just using 2-3 other breeds, you can see how diverse the genes could become using 4 or more, mixing them all up, breeding back constantly to purebreds to solidify the Doberman side. If done properly they could have a solid Doberman with great diversity in no time.

Yes, this going to be very interesting.
They will have four litters of dobe crossed to one of the other four breeds.
And then 2gen at four litters again...amiright? The possibilities on 3gen get complicated after that...but we are looking at at least four years for four generations at minimum to evaluate the admixtures chosen genetically and then x years longer to wait and see if DCM shows up anywhere from 2 to 5 years, which is sort of the window ethical breeders have to work with while keeping fingers crossed, correct?
I wonder who will be buying the pups not saved for breeding in each of those, after they hold back (i guess?) a sire and dam from each.
How will they rank and select for best of each beyond genetics?
I can see there might be a LOT of interest in what would be called @designer dogs otherwise, if given out with health checks, paid annually etc.Thats what UofMN is foing in their 4000 dibe cohort- asking for yearly detailed questionnaire, to see what actually shows up in various genetic markers found as in Embark and the predictions of best pairings as in Betterbred, vs the reality of diseases and conditions over time.

It would be very interesting to get the proposal that was run by the FKC. My guess is it was generated by U Utrecht or U Helsinki who have both been noted as doing wide area studies in genetic disease, in diseases common to dobes and run either in house or subbed out to a large breeder(s) agreeing to breed and colllect data, and find homes with owners who will report back.

 

[Ravenbird]

And then 2gen at four litters again...amiright? The possibilities on 3gen get complicated after that...but we are looking at at least four years for four generations at minimum to evaluate the admixtures chosen genetically and then x years longer to wait and see if DCM shows up anywhere from 2 to 5 years, which is sort of the window ethical breeders have to work with while keeping fingers crossed, correct?

Pretty much sounds about right. But also remember they might be using several dogs from each breed, not just one of each. Since I've never seen an outline of the plan I have no way of knowing, but I'm just assuming (yeah, I know, never assume) that they have a plan, including volunteer permanent homes/foster homes for the offspring. Maybe students will be raising some and doing behavioral training/studies in the pups first year to make assessments. And all the DNA testing and work to decide on what to use for the next F2, F3 litters. Oh, to be young again and watch this play out...