DCM3 and DCM4 are you serious

[StateOfMine]

Yeah I am just now discovering that these are genetic markers we can test for now. I don't know if Embark tests for them but I discovered this while looking for a... well not $200 way to test for the copper liver toxic... whatever, since embark doesn't just update their information and makes you buy their whole test all over again. I went to GenSol to find a cheaper single test and got slapped in the face with DCM3 and DCM4 listed in their shop. I cannot tell you how scared I am to buy them but I want to. UNLESS there is a reason I shouldn't?

Guys, help. Spill what you know!

 

[Kswoodssue]

I googled “blood test for dcm in dogs”. Interesting response from AI concerning detection of early damage to the heart and detection of taurine deficiency with specific blood tests. Is there a recommendation from Doberman specific organizations?

 

[BG1]

Yeah I am just now discovering that these are genetic markers we can test for now. I don't know if Embark tests for them but I discovered this while looking for a... well not $200 way to test for the copper liver toxic... whatever, since embark doesn't just update their information and makes you buy their whole test all over again. I went to GenSol to find a cheaper single test and got slapped in the face with DCM3 and DCM4 listed in their shop. I cannot tell you how scared I am to buy them but I want to. UNLESS there is a reason I shouldn't?

Guys, help. Spill what you know!

Wisdom tests for DCM 3,4

DCM3 and DCM4 risk variants

Wisdom Panel is proud to announce that ground-breaking Dilated Cardiomyopathy testing is now included in Optimal Selection Canine and MyDogDNA DNA tests when screening Doberman Pinschers.

www.wisdompanel.com

 

[BG1]

I googled “blood test for dcm in dogs”. Interesting response from AI concerning detection of early damage to the heart and detection of taurine deficiency with specific blood tests. Is there a recommendation from Doberman specific organizations?

DPCA has a good presentation on it, inclufing approaching it as a "health plan" at its educational area, free to public:
(Correction: apparently the DPCA website has been changed, so I cant find the open to public link there,
But here it is on youtube:
See Dr Meg Sleeper, DVM

Doberman Pinscher Club of America

Dedicated to the Doberman Pinscher. Welcome to the official YouTube channel of the Doberman Pinscher Club of America (DPCA), where we celebrate the history, versatility, and enduring legacy of this remarkable breed. Energetic, watchful, determined, alert, fearless, loyal, and obedient — that’s...

m.youtube.com

 

[BG1]

There are a ton of other studies you can find by a google search or AI Grok.

 

[BG1]

There are a ton of other studies you can find by a google search or AI Grok.

Here is one example, the early GWAS reported on DCM 3, 4 published in 2023.

Identification of novel genetic risk factors of dilated cardiomyopathy: from canine to human - Genome Medicine

Background Dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) is a life-threatening heart disease and a common cause of heart failure due to systolic dysfunction and subsequent left or biventricular dilatation. A significant number of cases have a genetic etiology; however, as a complex disease, the exact genetic...

genomemedicine.biomedcentral.com

As far as retail level tests. In addition to Wisdom, there are a couple more-
I did an Embark on Bonnie a couple months ago- only DCM1 and 2 trsted/reported so far on Embark. There are other genetic tests available at UC Davis, called VGL..

 

[BG1]

DPCA has a good presentation on it, inclufing approaching it as a "health plan" at its educational area, free to public:
(Correction: apparently the DPCA website has been changed, so I cant find the open to public link there,
But here it is on youtube:
See Dr Meg Sleeper, DVM

Doberman Pinscher Club of America

Dedicated to the Doberman Pinscher. Welcome to the official YouTube channel of the Doberman Pinscher Club of America (DPCA), where we celebrate the history, versatility, and enduring legacy of this remarkable breed. Energetic, watchful, determined, alert, fearless, loyal, and obedient — that’s...

m.youtube.com

There is another two part review by Jerome Bell, DVM aimed at breeders understanding DCM on same DPCA youtube channel. Lengthy but highly useful.

 

[BG1]

And last answer: "what test to use?"
Depends on what you are looking for...
I'd just go to Embark, Wisdom and UC Davis websites to see the latest.

Veterinary Genetics Laboratory

vgl.ucdavis.edu

I read they are adding new things at Embark and Wisdom, including the markers for Copper Storage Disease.

I guess most know this but for noobs like me:
The presence of a genetic marker for DCM or CSD doesnt mean your pup will get it, nor does the absence mean it wont.

Correlation is not causation and the science on this is still evolving. Its nice to know, to plan ahead but what you can and should do is holters and echos once a year starting at 2-3 years, and liver test annually for copper levels.
And thyroid, another higher than average isdue for dobes...

And get pet insurance now for a puppy before anything shows up as a pre-existing condition...these are not cheap or easy keepers as they say...

If you are breeding your pups, or a careful family pet owner who wants to be ahead of the symptoms later...why? Because caught early, then changes in diet and meds will extend life.

 

[Two Dobes]

And to chime in on taurine deficiency; I believe that is what is the cause with breeds developing DCM who are not genetically predisposed as Dobes, Boxers, Dane's etc. Longevity in a pedigree is what we can hang our hope on; but again....no guarantees with any health stuff in these guys

 

[JanS]

I've always had our dogs Embark tested but it's just showing you genetic markers. For the heart thing, a yearly echo and holter is still your best bet.

 

[Aaron56]

I guess most know this but for noobs like me:
The presence of a genetic marker for DCM or CSD doesnt mean your pup will get it, nor does the absence mean it wont.

SNIP...

And get pet insurance now for a puppy before anything shows up as a pre-existing condition...these are not cheap or easy keepers as they say...

That part in bold should have been the first thing said at the top of this thread.

I DO plan to watch the videos you posted (or at least listen to them whilst working) but I already have a feeling the part in bold is still going to be correct for the near future.



I priced a few different 'basic' pet insurance plans from a few different companies once back when my current girl Dystopia was a puppy.

For just a single Doberman puppy - It was several times more than the average / usual annual costs for Veterinary care that I actually spent on BOTH girls.

If I had took that same exact amount that the insurance premium was (for one dog) and set it aside each month in a special account (or envelope) and only pulled money from that envelope for all of the healthcare costs for both of those girls over the last 8 years - There would still be several thousand dollars in that envelope today with the girls receiving the same exact level of care along the way. Way more than needed to buy another couple of pups.

Even if you don't consider all of the usual 'exclusions' and stuff that is not covered - That stuff is highway robbery of the highest order unless you have the most ungodly sickly of dogs or they are extremely accident prone.


I do suggest a doggie 'emergency fund' for anyone and everyone that is going to be keeping any around. Set aside an amount each month and stash it for said future 'emergency'. Hope you don't HAVE any emergencies but be prepared if one does arise.

Last time I was at the Vet for whatever I saw a lady get shocked with despair when she was told her bill was around $400ish for her visit. Ended up being a mistake and she only owed a little less than 300 but I could not help but notice how that small of a difference in the cost freaked her out. That owner would be financially screwed if another unplanned 'accident' happened any time soon.

The last doggie 'emergency' here was a broken tooth. Girl broke a rear molar shredding a beef knuckle and hit my doggie fund for around 300 smackers.. And then same dog got sick again the very next month...

 

[BG1]

@Aaron56 agree on the pet insurance- its apples vs oranges unless one compares similar deductibles, max coverage, whats covered- some dont pay for wellness for example. And if pet insurance is rated by insurers like cars, etc- then claims experience in one state vs another affects the premium too.

This topic can become a whole new thread, and might be worth refreshing iit since prices have gone up so much on last couple years.

I see Costco now offers pet insurance!

 

[Aaron56]

@Aaron56 agree on the pet insurance- its apples vs oranges unless one compares similar deductibles, max coverage, whats covered- some dont pay for wellness for example. And if pet insurance is rated by insurers like cars, etc- then claims experience in one state vs another affects the premium too.

This topic can become a whole new thread, and might be worth refreshing iit since prices have gone up so much on last couple years.

I see Costco now offers pet insurance!

I checked Nationwide.

Funny how they would love to sell me a Doberman health insurance policy but will NOT allow a Doberman to be covered under my general home liability policy with them...

One of the reasons I no longer do business with them.

 

[BG1]

Fwiw:
I'm using Embrace, set up as "catastrophic care" in effect: $1000 deductible, $5000 max, cost $550 first yr with signup a year discount, and about $600 second year.

90% coverage, with no wellness coverage- Paid for itself first year due to a couple minor problems,
Second year fewer issues so I dont expect to get paid back...its more for peace of mind; enough to cover common things like obstruction surgery, a minor accident, etc.

Good customer service navigating paperwork from vet, claims paid within timeframes promised- cant complain.

If you buy it as a puppy with no prior conditions and stay with same insurance company I think it just comes down to premium inflation over time.

We shall see...